Why is Italy an allied power?

Your “factual data” was not ignored; a counter-argument based upon analysis was offered. � You get the difference, right? � Even if you don’t agree with the analysis, you do understand the difference between something being ignored and a counter-argmument being offered, do you not?

What i understand is you said nothing in terms of any argument backed up by links or anything that puts Italy into the arms of AH or offers anything remotely feasible in terms of evidence that Italy would join the CP.

Ok, now I understand what you’re saying… even though it is a response to a question I didn’t ask (originally, I was asking how was it so implausible that Italy would join the CP if they saw a reasonable chance to seize areas they believed were historically a part of Italy, specifically Riveria, Provence, and Corsica; you responded those areas were part of AH, referring to areas in Trieste and the Dalmatian Coast without naming them. � Not sure why you made this switch without referring to those areas specifically; would have been a clearer argument). �

I never denied that, what i said was If that was the situation, the war would be over or the game would be over. So why even bring it up because it helps nobody here in this game. Yes at some point all the fantasy must be put aside and realistic outcomes should only be considered. Italy didn’t join after Tannenburg or after Germany getting 40 miles from Paris in 1914.

That doesn’t change the validity of my argument: � That if Italy believed the CP were going to come out the victors, they could well have joined the CP in order to secure holdings in South eastern France and North Africa–areas which they valued and saw as having historical meaning for them.

I don’t care about your argument, for it to work the games victory conditions would be too close to being a CP victory and that would need to occur on turn one anyway. In terms of Historical relevance, it would need to be a really short war and it wasn’t.

Ok, great, so you choose not answer my questions and just ignore them. � Fair enough.

I have referenced articles, including ones you yourself have posted, but whatever. � Just say that I don’t have anything to back me up, that’s fine. � Have fun continuing to make up your own defintions and misunderstanding the nature of analysis.

Post the links to support the argument that Italy would love to stay with the CP and fight with AH. Don’t claim i’m ignoring you, i am rather waiting for the links.

Words are only getting you so far without evidence.

I have referenced articles, including ones you yourself have posted, but whatever

You copy and paste mine, but didn’t bring in your own to support the ‘counter-argument’. Nor did you address my evidence, so no.

Could any country have allied with the opposite faction?  Sure.  Did it? No.  This should go to the house or general discussion.

Exactly, the OP is only asking why Italy sides with Entente. This is not about fantasy regarding Italy joining AH to fight France, UK, et al. Italy wanted nothing less than being part of a bully of nations starting wars.

Moreover, my initial suggestion was to let the Italian player decide NLT turn 2 or 3 (more likely, 2) which alliance it joins (CP or the Allies) based upon their own assessment of the situation and what is in their own interests

How would this be done in a two player game?

Kim

I don’t keep my copy of Keegan or other histories at my office, which is where I am. � Personally, I think wikipedia and online histories to be pretty weak, which is why I don’t cite them. � And quite frankly, I don’t feel the need to pour through my history books and ignore my kids when I go home in order to satisfy someone who is being a dick.

And again, I have addressed your “evidence” (which, by the way, isn’t evidence, it is an analytical conclusion, which is in and of itself subject to counter-argument; I’m honsestly wondering at this point if you even understand the differences between data, argument, analysis, evidence and fact, since you use the terms so interchangeably). �

Yea i figured as much, bring nothing then slam wikpedia. Don’t open books/sources, but surely open countless posts. Enter this site and within a day start arguing and call people Dicks.

Note i didn’t any of that. You are the worst suck puppet account i have encountered.

Just because Paris is in dire straits or that Italy joins the CP, does not mean that the game would have to be over. � You could fight on in USSR, UK, and USA. � It just makes it harder. �

Just because Italy joins the CP after Paris, Russia, London, and US falls does not mean the game would be over either. It just makes it harder for the allies to win. Yes i know. :-D

Moreover, my initial suggestion was to let the Italian player decide NLT turn 2 or 3 (more likely, 2) which alliance it joins (CP or the Allies) based upon their own assessment of the situation and what is in their own interests (which is how policy is very often made). � This adds a degree (but not an unnecessarily or unwieldable degree) of complexity to the game that adds a bit more realism and fun. �

we don’t posit house rules here, get another thread.

And if you say “I don’t care about your argument” than why should anyone care about yours, if you refuse to take contrarian analyses as even a plausible point of departure? � Seriously dude, it undercuts your own position…

Well you see how far you get here right? All those posts without one link to support anything and arguing with me after being here and you only been a member for 2 days ( with 25 of your posts out of 37 arguing posts)…hmmm looks like another sock puppet account I’m dealing with.

If by any conclusion of what is sensible, Italy would have one turn to decide either that they are neutral or join the Entente. If France falls on turn 1, and Italy remains neutral, on her second turn she can join the CP on a roll of 5-6.

But such a rule belongs in house rules.

But we all know France can’t be defeated in one turn.

Quote
Just because Paris is in dire straits or that Italy joins the CP, does not mean that the game would have to be over. � You could fight on in USSR, UK, and USA. � It just makes it harder. �

Just because Italy joins the CP after Paris, Russia, London, and US falls does not mean the game would be over either. It just makes it harder for the allies to win. Yes i know. grin

Quote

Except, that’s not what I said at all.  You’re just being absurd for the sake of being absurd.

Can i call the waaabulance?

Dude, I have no idea what a sock puppet account is… But I’m loving how welcoming you as a semi-official member of this board has been to newcomers, and showing surprise that a newcome would the audacity to argue with YOU! � Way to not live up to the fanboy/neck-beard/mother’s basement stereotype!

For somebody who does not know what a sock puppet account is you sure know how to make ad hominem posts. :roll:

But I’m loving how welcoming you as a semi-official member of this board has been to newcomers, and showing surprise that a newcome would the audacity to argue with YOU!

The fact that you’re whole existence was to argue with me ( about 40 posts out of 40 something) only confirms a growing contention of why you are really here for.

Sure.  While you’re at it, read up on the definitions of evidence, data, fact, argument, and analysis.  Understanding these concepts will help you in life.

I found it here the definition is: waah That’s about as much as whatever argument you made.

I only started it after you called me crazy for offering an addendum or house rule change with which you disagreed and after you started making dick-ish comments and using emoticons (seriously, what are you, a 13 year old girl?) to belittle others’ arguments. � You expect people to just sit there and take it, because you have something like 13 thousands posts to your account and like a dozen stars under your Battlestar Galactica handle?

emoticons are not “I’m a dick comments”. Thats on you. I never once called you any names. Sit there and take what? these?  :-D :-) :-( :? 8-) :x :oops: :cry: :evil: :roll: :wink: :mrgreen:

You must be insane to shame emoticons. That just makes you 13 years old that it effects you so much.

BTW all but 2 of your posts are argue posts. This speaks volumes. My 13K posts are not anything like your record so far.

I honsetly have no idea what the above posting means…

I’m honestly waiting for some internet link to support any claim that Italy was close or had a good chance of fighting with AH during 1914-18.

Instead or arguing and calling people a Dick, perhaps you might make an argument>?

Sorry, I’m a grown man. � Hence, I don’t use emoticons. � I just assume that other grown men feel the same way… � Don’t think that makes me “insane” though…

keep repeating that. It might help you at night.

I like you said “I never once called you any names” and then two sentences later “You must be insane” � Laughing… alrighty…

And seriously, you’ve gone back and tabulated all of my posts, and analyzed them…? � Laughing… � that’s awesome.

No argument still….this sock puppet just loves hiding behind fluff.

Yeah, I’ll worry about satisfying your demands once you actually understand the differences between evidence, data, fact, argument, and analysis.  Until then… not going to lose any sleep over satisfying your need for a wikipedia entry.

Don’t lose sleep over having no argument either, or supporting anything with evidence, or repeating words that hold no meaning to you, etc…

Don’t worry rj, he’s also a moderator on this site. After awhile he may alter your post too.

“IL Twilight Zone”

Get out while you can

Nice, are you going, what team (if you don’t mind me asking)

Cool, I’m patiently waiting for the Tigers on TV (open in Minnesota at 4:00).

I believe the OP was asking why Italy starts the getco with the allies.  Is it that difficult to just let Italy be neutral for one turn?  Like if it balances it it balances it if not we take it out. I just think everyone argueing is getting rediculous.  The passed pages aren’t even about this topic.

I am quite dissapointed. :mrgreen:

Well, if you make Italy neutral the first turn it will be even harder for the CP’s to take Rome, because they can reinforce Venice… or if Austria can attack Italy turn 1 anyway, they will-  Same result as OOB.

Just out of curiousity, how many times do you have to edit your posts until you get them right?  This is literally the third or fourth time you’ve edited this single posting…

Unlike you i check for spelling: curiosity not curiousity.

:| :roll: :evil: :-P :x :lol: 8-) :?= :mrgreen: