Technology

@wove100:

For economic, why not consider the old A&A Classic: everything costs one less.

Infantry would be a steal at 2 IPC

@oztea:

Bombers - your aircraft may attack enemy supplies. When strafing, instead of attacking an enemy unit, roll a die, the enemy must surrender that many IPCs to the bank. The number may not exceed the printed value of the territory ( I really don’t like the bombers tech, there was really no industrial bombing in WWI)

I see World War I bombing as an anti-morale exercise, that’s why I think it should be limited to a strategic bombing raid type of move, with the IPCs being deducted representing a nation’s decreased productivity due to bombing. No problem with maxing it out at IPC value.

It would be all non infantry units cost one less.

I am firmly against any form of economic bombing in this game.
It was a RARITY in WWI, and even so caused minimal damage. More was done with blimps, which harmed morale not industry. (though that could affect IPCs)
But still, economic bombing was more rare than some of the other things I proposed.

As for Naval Aviation, you may be right.
But the game mechanics make it difficult. unless we only let planes particpate in coastal naval conflicts.
Or, conversely, the Battleship that is carrying the plane CANT ATTACK but the plane boost the attack of the cruisers to 4?
What about that.

6 techs is a step backward. Is the problem that you don’t think we can get 12 good techs?
My problem is that if we only have 6 really good techs people will be constantly researching. There needs to be some so-so techs to make the process a little more risky and a little more flavorful.

@wove100:

Instead of Advanced Aeronautics:

Strategic Bombing - Fighters within 2 spaces of an enemy capital may perform a strategic bombing raid (Thus Germany can hit Paris or London from Belgium) instead of engaging in combat. Each fighter in the raid rolls one die, deducting 1 IPC from the attacked power�s treasury for each 1 or 2 rolled (the airborne version of USW).

I actually like this as a placeholder for ‘bombers’ until we get actual sculpts (from WOTC or elsewhere). Maybe have it have a morale or unit damage effect though, instead of economic.

Yea that makes sense for a bomber piece, but not for the fighter piece we have.
It was an exercise in attacking enemy morale, not industry.

Is this a good replacement for conscription?

Industrial Might - Fighters, Transports, Cruisers and Battleships cost 1 IPC less

We need to get these down to “Larry Simple” Techs. So perhaps the way to go is divide the charts into ALLIED and CENTRAL POWERS
You can research on either chart, but some techs on the other chart might not help you.

Allied Powers Techs
1. Destroyers - Your Cruisers prevent enemy subs from submerging or moving through them at a 1:1 ratio
2. Tank Pioneer - You may build tanks before turn 4, after turn 4 you can buy tanks for 5 IPCs.
3. Advanced Aeronautics - Your aircraft become 3/3/3 (up from 2/2/2)
4. Radio Communications - During combats where friendly forces are also in the contested zone, roll a die. That many friendly artillery may be used to boost your attacking forces.
5. Industrial Might - Fighters, Transports, Cruisers and Battleships cost 1 IPC less
6. Creeping Barrage - Your artillery may fire two shots at 2 instead of their normal shot at 3. With air supremacy they may fire two shots at 3 instead of one shot at 4

Central Powers Techs
1. Chemical Warfare - In one attack this turn, roll a die: 1-4 that many infantry do not roll defensively; 5-6: No effect. If the defender also has the Chemical Warfare Breakthrough he may have the die rerolled.
2. Advanced Submarines - Roll a die, that many of your subs can submerge before the first round of combat. (if permitted)
3. Battle Cruisers - Nominate one cruiser in any battle, that cruiser requires two hits to sink and can bombard.
4. Rail Artillery - Your artillery in uncontested territory may support a unit in a battle in an adjacent territory.
5. Stormtroopers - In one attack this turn, roll a die. That many of your infantry attack at 3.
6. Barbed Wire - When defending roll a die, that many enemy infantry are reduced to attacking at ‘1’

Another thing we should consider is the cost of techs-  With no National Objectives, contested territories, low IPC territories outside western Europe and capitals, and Africa not worth much, there won’t be a lot of money to go around, at least until an Allied or CP country falls.

I mean, Germany starts with 35, a good sum (and the most in the game), but may not rise much higher for a few turns.  It will likely lose its Africa territories and make slow gains in Europe (one combat round and not making money off of contested territories).  With two or three fronts, can Germany afford to put 5 IPCs into Tech?

Britain?  30 IPCs, likely gain a couple from German Africa territories.  They have to split their income between India and UK.  Not likely to want to put 5 IPC into Tech.

Austria?  26 IPCs.  not likely to grow above 30 quickly.

Russia, France, Ottoman, and Italy will likely fall below 20 in the first few turns.

The US only gets 20.  They need transports and troops.

I suppose one could invade a few neutrals to gain more IPC’s/turn… but is it worth it?

So who will roll for tech?

But IPCs aren’t just money. They also represent manpower and productivity. They represent the total resources of a nation. They are also the only way in the game to represent morale without designing and adding a morale track. WWI bombing affected morale, which affected manpower, which affected production.

Reduce it further. In a strategic bombing raid, only a roll of 1 deducts 1 IPC. Even max it out at half of the capital’s IPC value, so the most that can be lost in a turn is the cost of 1 infantry (London, Paris) or 1 artillery (Berlin).

By restricting it to capitals it makes it less likely to happen. I would say reduce it to adjacent territory, but then Germany can’t hit London. It should be a tech modifying fighters because we ain’t getting bombers in A&A1914 any other way.

Well it has been suggested you get a free tech every 4th turn (or maybe 3rd)

However, we could consider alternatives: such as

Method A:
Rolls cost 1 IPC. Roll the dice, then those are your options to buy this turn.
If you roll a 3, 5, and 6. you can then BUY any one of those techs for 4 more IPCs
If you rolled doubles or triples that tech is FREE

Method B:
Tech Tokens

Method C:
Research as normal: 5 IPCs per roll. But get a FREE tech every 3rd turn (random of course)
The allied/CP separate charts would help here.

Method D:
WOAH NELLY
Free Tech every 4th turn
Pay 2 IPCs every turn to keep your research teams funded. and on the 4th turn get 2 Free random techs.

@BJCard:

Another thing we should consider is the cost of techs-  With no National Objectives, contested territories, low IPC territories outside western Europe and capitals, and Africa not worth much, there won’t be a lot of money to go around, at least until an Allied or CP country falls.

I mean, Germany starts with 35, a good sum (and the most in the game), but may not rise much higher for a few turns.  It will likely lose its Africa territories and make slow gains in Europe (one combat round and not making money off of contested territories).  With two or three fronts, can Germany afford to put 5 IPCs into Tech?

Britain?  30 IPCs, likely gain a couple from German Africa territories.  They have to split their income between India and UK.  Not likely to want to put 5 IPC into Tech.

Austria?  26 IPCs.  not likely to grow above 30 quickly.

Russia, France, Ottoman, and Italy will likely fall below 20 in the first few turns.

The US only gets 20.  They need transports and troops.

I suppose one could invade a few neutrals to gain more IPC’s/turn… but is it worth it?

So who will roll for tech?

I’ve never played A&A50, so I don’t know tech tokens from my elbow, but what about something along the lines of paying 1 IPC to get a die roll toward a particular tech. If you roll a 1, you get the tech. If you roll a 2-6, nothing happens. The following turn, you can spend 1 additional IPC to research the same tech. On a roll of 1-2, you get the tech. If you roll 3-6, nothing happens. Or, you could just roll again without spending any additional money, hoping for a roll of 1. Continue in this vein until you get the tech (guaranteed in 6 turns).

Or, perhaps each alliance researches tech together, guaranteeing a tech in 2 turns if each power puts 1 IPC toward it (this does, of course favor the allies, since its 4 vs 3, then later 5 vs 3). Perhaps only 2 or 3 IPC may be spent each turn by each alliance.

Additionally, money spent researching cannot be reallocated to another tech. If you’re going after Naval Aviation, you have to stick with it, or abandon the previous IPC sunk into research to go after another tech.

Edit: deleted an extra “if.”

Tech tokens was:
Buy tokens for 5 IPCs
Roll as many dice as you have tokens
If you get a tech, discard ALL your tokens.
If you don’t, save your tokens for next turn.

Repeat process next turn.
So it made sense for everyone to have one token, and roll every turn. It was fun.

I would suggest.
A) Make tokens 3 IPCs; AND/OR
B) If you get a tech, discard HALF your tokens

That way if you invest heavily in tech, you get to keep some investment.
(^honestly this may be the way to go, Keep half your tokens^)

@oztea:

1. Destroyers - Your Cruisers prevent enemy subs from submerging or moving through them at a 1:1 ratio
3. Battle Cruisers - Nominate one cruiser in any battle, that cruiser requires two hits to sink and can bombard.

Number 1: this kind of implies that your cruisers have been “upgraded” to destroyers (which would in fact be a downgrade because destroyers are smaller).  Fitting depth charges on cruisers wouldn’t work either because they’re not fast or agile enough to make a decent attack run against a sub.  Maybe you could say that the cruisers are now escorted by destroyers…but it sounds odd for a tech upgrade to refer to an invisible unit.

Number 3: Battlecruisers (a.k.a. “eggshells armed with hammers”) weren’t necessarily much better armoured that heavy cruisers, and at least three British ones were only armoured on the scale of light cruisers.  Giving them just improved firepower would be better.

Comments noted.
But giving cruisers powers vs subs is much more Larry-esqe than the tech saying

You can build destroyers. Open up your box of 1940 stuff (or 1942) and bust out the destroyers, unless you forgot them at home. Now paint them, or assign mismatched colors and confuse everybody at the game table.

From a simplicity standpoint we can imagine a destroyer is tacked on to a group of 3 or 4 cruisers.

Perhaps battlecruisers would be better if your cruisers attacked at 4 and defend at 4 on the first round of naval combat?

@CWO:

Number 1: this kind of implies that your cruisers have been “upgraded” to destroyers (which would in fact be a downgrade because destroyers are smaller).� Fitting depth charges on cruisers wouldn’t work either because they’re not fast or agile enough to make a decent attack run against a sub.� Maybe you could say that the cruisers are now escorted by destroyers…but it sounds odd for a tech upgrade to refer to an invisible unit.

But we don’t have destroyers. Cruisers are the closest we’ve got, so that’s why the ability gets added to cruisers. I suppose you could add it to transports to simulate convoys, but they’d still be sitting ducks without protection.

Plus, one cruiser in A&A does not equal one cruiser in real life. Think of the scale. A cruiser in A&A clearly represents multiple cruisers. With this tech it would now represent both cruisers and destroyers because we don’t have a destroyer sculpt.

MORE IMPORTANTLY WE SHOULD SORT OUT

A) 6 TECHS

B) 12 TECHS (air/naval chart) (land/economic chart)

C) 12 TECHS (CP favorable techs) (Allied favorable techs)

X) 5 IPCs per tech roll

Y) 5 IPCs per tech token

Z) SOMETHING ELSE

1. Free tech every 4th turn
2. 1 IPC per roll, 4 more to buy one of what you rolled
3. 3 IPC tech tokens
4. 5 IPC tech tokens but keep half of them when you get a breakthrough (if you had 4 tokens, keep 2 for next turn)

How about for an economic tech:

Foreign Aid:

During your purchase units phase, you may transfer x IPCs to an ally.

I would say the cap should be 5 IPCs.

War bonds would be better than that. To generate cash, not just move cash already on the board from one power to another.

How does this look:

YOU CAN ROLL ON EITHER CHART, BUT AS AN ALLIED POWER YOU MIGHT PREFER ALLIED TECHS
Allied Powers Techs
1. Destroyers - Your Cruisers prevent enemy subs from submerging or moving through them at a 1:1 ratio
2. Tank Pioneer - You may build tanks before turn 4, after turn 4 you can buy tanks for 5 IPCs.
3. Advanced Aeronautics - Your aircraft become 3/3/3 (up from 2/2/2)
4. Radio Communications - During combats where friendly forces are also in the contested zone, roll a die. That many friendly artillery may be used to boost your attacking forces.
5. Industrial Might - Fighters, Transports, Cruisers and Battleships cost 1 IPC less
6. Creeping Barrage - Your artillery may fire two shots at 2 instead of their normal shot at 3. With air supremacy they may fire two shots at 3 instead of one shot at 4

Central Powers Techs
1. Chemical Warfare - In one attack this turn, roll a die: 1-4 that many infantry do not roll defensively; 5-6: No effect. If the defender also has the Chemical Warfare Breakthrough he may have the die rerolled.
2. Advanced Submarines - Roll a die, that many of your subs can submerge before the first round of combat. (if permitted)
3. Battle Cruisers - Your cruisers attack and defend at 4 on the first round of naval combat, and can bombard.
4. Advanced Artillery - Your artillery can support 2 infantry instead of one.
5. Stormtroopers - In one attack this turn, roll a die. That many of your infantry attack at 3.
6. Hardened Positions - When defending roll a die, that many enemy infantry are reduced to attacking at ‘1’

Again, I say no to 5 IPC research rolls.  Either make them 3 IPCs (with tokens) or everyone gets one at turn 4, 6, 8 etc.

@oztea:

MORE IMPORTANTLY WE SHOULD SORT OUT

A) 6 TECHS

B) 12 TECHS (air/naval chart) (land/economic chart)

C) 12 TECHS (CP favorable techs) (Allied favorable techs)

---

X) 5 IPCs per tech roll

Y) 5 IPCs per tech token

Z) SOMETHING ELSE

1. Free tech every 4th turn
2. 1 IPC per roll, 4 more to buy one of what you rolled
3. 3 IPC tech tokens
4. 5 IPC tech tokens but keep half of them when you get a breakthrough (if you had 4 tokens, keep 2 for next turn)

I like C…the tactics varied by the alliances, so this makes sense, although we need to tweak a few of them.

I think as far as acquiring them, it should be free or as close to free as possible. As BJCard pointed out, there’s not going to be a lot of cash flowing around. Maybe make it a random die roll as to whether you acquire one, then a random as to which one you get. It also needs to be more often than every 4th turn.

I was thinking tech start appearing in the 4th turn and then every other turn after that.  Need 2-3 turns for everyone to ‘settle’ in…