Research Technology Dice

@Krieghund

Oh…

I’ve been playing wrong this entire time???

:disappointed:

Thanks for clarifying though. I’ll take that into my next physical game.

Check the range of V weapons. Four spaces is too long of a distance. Also, the new tech units it needs to be clear: When you get say King Tigers do all your tanks go “Poof” and become Tigers , or from that point on are any tanks you build…Tigers. The later idea is much more realistic.

@fantasticfan Allerdings! :grin: Since I could not (yet) find a PM function I started a chat with you (hope this works too).
Greetings from Schwabenländle

@zawodowiec777 That is a very nice tech tree!

Here is 6a of n for discussion of my Classic House Rules

I presented my original technology ideas as I had them back in the early 2000s. I do believe that some may find them outrageously overpowered. So, here are some nerfed, some down-powered technology ideas for presentation and review.

My Post 5 (New Research Rules - Outsmart your Enemies) explains how to research your technologies and Post 6 (New Research Tech for Classic) explains what you get when your research pays off. The technologies presented in Post 6 are quite aggressive. So, here in my Post 6a are some not-so-potent technologies. See Posts 5 and 6 for the how to get these technologies - this post is just about some potential technologies for my house rules that aren’t probably aren’t completely game-breaking.

Revised Research Results Chart

Theme - Tier 1 (Researched First) - Tier 2 (Unlocked After Tier 1 in Row
Flying - Rocket Power - Jet Power
Flying - Long Range Aircraft - Heavy Aircraft
Ground - Faster Trucks - Faster Tracks
Ground - Quick Firing Cannons - Radar Tracking
Industry - Reduce Waste - More Efficient Ways
Industry - Work Smarter - New Accounting
Naval - Better Naval Fuel - Super Subs
Naval - Post Treaty Ships - Bigger Holds

Research Results Explained

Flying Technologies
Row 1, Tier 1
Rocket Power - Allows use of Rockets (Range 3) as per the rules in the main Rule Book. Leads to Jet Power.
Row 1, Tier 2
Jet Power - Requires Rocket Power. Converts Fighters into Jet Fighters (A3/D5/M4, 6 with LRA/C10). Jet Fighters are as per the rules in the main Rule Book.
Row 2, Tier 1
Long Range Aircraft (LRA) - Increases aircraft and rocket ranges: (Jet) Fighters 6, Cargo Planes 8, and Bombers 8. Leads to Heavy Aircraft.
Row 2, Tier 2
Heavy Aircraft - Requires Long Range Aircraft. Converts Cargo Planes and Bombers to their Heavy versions: Heavy Cargo Planes and Heavy Bombers.
       Heavy Cargo Planes (A0/D0/M8/C12) may carry up to 2 Infantry, Paratroopers, or Troopers; or 1 AA Gun, Armor, Armored Cavalry, or Artillery. Only Paratroopers can attack in this way, all other units may only be moved as non-combat movement. Heavy Air Transports may reduce their load in order to travel further: Range 10 with 1 Infantry, Paratroopers, or Trooper; Range 12 when carrying nothing.
       Heavy Bomber (A(4x2)/D1/M8/C12) may attack by throwing three dice and taking the two desired results, which may be the loss of up to two enemy defenders. When Heavy Bombers do a Strategic Bombing Raid, damage done is equal to the top two of the three dice thrown, per Heavy Bomber. Heavy Bombers may reduce their load in order to travel further: Range 10 with 1 die of damage (throw two dice, select desired result); Range 12 when carrying nothing.

Ground Technologies
Row 1, Tier 1
Faster Trucks - Heavy Artillery and Infantry now move at 2. AA Guns, Paratroopers, and Troopers still only move at 1. Leads to Faster Tracks.
Row 1, Tier 2
Faster Tracks - Requires Faster Trucks. Armor and Armored Cavalry now move at 3; AA Guns and Troopers now move at 2. Paratroopers still only move at 1 (when not aboard their aireal chariots).
Row 2, Tier 1
Quick Firing Cannons - Heavy Artillery now attack and defend by throwing twice as many dice as formerly appropriate (two dice per Heavy Artillery). All hits landed by those dice hit ground units, up to the limit of enemy ground units in combat. Leads to Radar Tracking.
Row 2, Tier 2
Radar Tracking - Requires Quick Firing Cannons. AA Guns now defend by throwing twice as many dice as formerly appropriate (two dice per AA Gun). All hits landed by those dice hit flying units, up to the limit of enemy flying units in combat.

Industry Technologies
Row 1, Tier 1
Reduce Waste (Better Factories) - Reduces the cost to produce Ground units: -1/2 IPC (round up) for Armored Cavalry, Infantry, and Paratroopers; -1 IPC for all others (AA Gun, Armor, Artillery, Troopers). Leads to More Efficient Ways.
Row 1, Tier 2
More Efficient Ways (Better Plants) - Requires Reduce Waste. Reduces cost to produce all Air units and Sea units by 2.
Row 2, Tier 1
Work Smarter (Increased Capacity) - Doubles placement limits on territories with new Industrial Complexes. (e.g. Build factory in India (worth 3 IPC), now you can place up to 6 units in India with Work Smarter.) Leads to New Accounting.
Row 2, Tier 2
New Accounting (Increased Resources) - Requires Work Smarter. Receive additional income for every originally-owned territory that you have owned since the start of your turn - 1 additional IPC for every 2 IPC original value, rounded up. (By “originally-owned territory that you have owned since the start of your turn”, this refers to territories that you started the game with (such as Western Europe for Germany or Karelia for the USSR) and that are still in your possession - no extra money for territories you don’t control or for territories you have taken over since the start of the game.
Original IPC Value:  1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12
Additional Income:  1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4,  5,  6

Naval Technologies
Row 1, Tier 1
Better Naval Fuel (Faster Ships) - All ships now move at 3. Leads to Super Subs.
Row 1, Tier 2
Super Subs - Requires Better Naval Fuel. Converts all Submarines to Super Submarines (SSK). SSKs attack and defend at 3. Aircraft can only attack SSKs for 1 round, after which time SSKs are considered to be submerged and not attackable by aircraft. SSKs that are submerged may continue to attack or defend against ships in the same battle as the SSKs or may choose to break off contact and withdraw from battle.
Super Submarines (SSK) (A3/D3/M3/C8) Special Submerge ability
Row 2, Tier 1
Post Treaty Ships (Better Ships) - Converts Battleships (BB) and Cruisers (CA) into Heavy Battleships (BBB) and Battle Cruisers (CC). BBBs use 2 dice each for attack and defense. CCs attack at 4 and defend at 4 and gain the AAA value of BBs (AAA value at 1 against up to 2 planes per CC) (essentially, CAs become 1 hit BBs). Leads to Bigger Holds.
Heavy Battleship (BBB) (A4(x2)/D4(x2)/M2/C20) AAA value of 1 vs. 2 planes/2 Hit Ship
Battle Cruiser (CC) (A4/D4/M2/C12) AAA value of 1 vs. 2 planes/1 Hit Ship
Row 2, Tier 2
Bigger Holds (Bigger Ships) - Requires Post Treaty Ships. Converts Aircraft Carriers (CV) and Transports (AKA) into Large Carriers (CVB) and Large Transports (AKB). CVBs can carry 3 Fighters or 1 Bomber. AKBs can carry 5 foot units, 2 mech units, or 1 mech and 3 foot units.
Large Carrier (CVB) (A1/D3/M2/C16/2 Hit Ship) (Carry 3 Fighters or 1 Bomber)
Large Transport (AKB) (A0/D1/M2/C8/1 Hit Ship) (Carry 5 foot or 2 mech or 1 mech and 3 foot)

And these are my down-powered technology results.

-Midnight_Reaper

Hi Erocco,
these numbers are based on a formula found during Classic time by Dauvio Vann and his friends, then improved and adjusted to better fit the need of Second Edition units. Here is one link in House Rule:
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=40346.msg1684954#msg1684954

Below, you get the whole formula and a short explanation:

@Baron:

@Dauvio:

It came to my attention that one of my formulas are already out there that I discovered 30 years ago.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=185969 has also discovered the formula P^2*N=S
And just for fun you can try these formulas also. S/P^2=N. √(S/N)=P
P=POINTS
N=NUMBER OF UNITS
S=STRENGTH OF ONE KIND OF UNITS IN A TERRITORY
This formula should replace the punch formula. It is much better then the punch formula.

Now the next formula is (P100)/(C^26)=S
P=POINTS
C=COST
S=STRENGTH OF THE UNIT BASED ON COST
With this formula you can also price units according to their strength. √((P100)/(S6))=C
This formula is for points. (S*(C^2*6))/100=P

For better results for some of these formulas, have all your units cost ten times then what they are. These are some of the VANN FORMULAS I came up 30 years ago.

If you have any questions about these formulas, please ask.

I found how you can get the main part of Vann formula or Baron-Larrymarx according to a specific unit as benchmark.

I took the Fighter A3 D4 C10 and I wanted to convert into Tank A3 D3 C6 as benchmark (Baron-Larrymarx formula).

Then I saw what I did.

Power (of attacking Fighter): A3 * C6 (cost of Tank)/C10 (cost of Fg) * 1 Hit Point C6 (cost of Tank)/C10 (cost of Fg) = 1.08
You can reduce this equation because (cost of Tank)(cost of Tank)/ (cost of Fg)*(cost of Fg) is same to
(cost of Tank) IPCs^2 / (cost of Fg) IPCs^2 and give a simple ratio.

C6^2*A3/C10^2 = 1.08
36 squared IPCs 3 Power * 1 Hit /100 squared IPCs = 1.08 PowerHit Point

This explained what is hidden in Baron-Larrymarx formula:
Offence or defence strength factor= 36*Power/Cost^2.

The whole Enigma formula is
Refence unit Cost^2Power of the actual unit1 HP/Cost of the actual unit^2

So, the Basic offence or defence strength factor result (1.08, in this case) is express in Power*Hit Point
1^2*Power (of a given unit)*1 hit/Cost (of this same given unit)^2

And this formula can be adapt according to any benchmark, for instance a 1 IPC unit:
131 hit/10^2 = 0.300

And this is a very small number. That’s why Vann formula:
Strength= (Power100)/(Cost^26)

add an arbitrary 1001/6= 16.667…
So, 16.667131 hit/10^2 = 0.5
And this would provide the Fighter strength attack factor based on an hypothetical benchmark unit of √16.667 = 4.0825 IPCs.
A 5 IPCs revised Tank in Vann formula gives a Strength : 16.66731 hit/5^2 = 2.00 powerhit

Can you elaborate on the ship calculations?

Destroyer strength: .30144/8^2  = 0.675
Cruiser    strength: .60144/12^2= 0.600
Battleship strength: .701442.618/20^2 = 0.660

These numbers means that Destroyer is the most optimized unit for combat to buy for each IPC invested, then it is battleship and finally Cruiser.
Said otherwise, Cruiser is sub-optimal for the cost.
3 DDs C8 A3 D3 (A9 D9, 3 hits) will be stronger than 2 Cruisers C12 A6 D6 (A12 D12, 2 hits) if you can use a Battlecalc to test D10-sided values.

From stronger to weaker for 120 IPCs basis:
15 DDs A3 D3 (A45 D45)
6 BBs A7 D7 (A42 D42)
10 CAs A6 D6 (A60 D60)

I love this game and I appreciate the work the game designers put into it.
I was looking at a way to speed up the game and I played “all throws are hits.”
Did it once with No Mines Option and once with All Mines Always Hit Option.
This was a lot of fun and it forced me to rethink some buying strategies and maneuver strategies.
FYI, Allied Powers start with 161 ground units (169 when US enters) and 23 ships (25 when US enters).
Central Powers start with 176 ground units and 12 ships.

See I personally liked in BOTB and Guadalcanal the random casualties. But I wouldn’t want to take their combat systems and put it into AA50. It’s not all pure luck. You would have units that screened like the infantry and destroyers that are hit more often than the more powerful units but, it would be possible to hit the more expensive units off the bat.