Can you scramble friendly planes?

@nzcamel

Rulebook (Europe 1940.2, page 13) has it:

"However, units can’t end their movement in friendly spaces during the Combat Move phase except in four instances.
…

Sea units that will be participating in an amphibious assault
from a friendly sea zone, as well as sea and/or air units that
may be needed to support it in the case that defending air
units are scrambled (see “Scramble,” page 16).

"

@nzcamel said in Protecting the transports with aircraft, in an amphibious landing, from scrambles.:

@aequitas-et-veritas they aren’t being sent to join a certain combat. They are staying with the fleet (with no enemy ships present) not fighting in the landing battle. Are you sure they are allowed to move in the combat step?

… same rulebook, page 32:

“Carrier aircraft move independently of the carrier on their own turn. They move along with the carrier on its turn if they belong to different powers. On the air units’ turn, they launch before the carrier moves, even if they are not leaving the sea zone themselves.”

So in case the attacking power brings its fighters to the sea zone in question (with the fleet or not) during combat move phase they will fight against possibly scrambling units.

Only fighters belonging to friendly powers remain as cargo on the carrier.

@dale Welcome to the forum :slightly_smiling_face: .
I have just found this topic in “Find Online Players” so I moved it here.

… even if the attacher has other sea units set aside for bombardments?

This is against the rules, as "If sea combat occurs, all attacking and defending sea and air units present must participate in the battle. " (Rulebook Europe 1940.2, page 18).
So you are not allowed to split your attacking units forSea Combat on the one hand and Bombardment on the other hand.

@Kreuzfeld:

@simon33:

I wish there was a defender decision phase between combat move and conduct combat to clarify these things. Declare kami, scramble and intercept are all effectively done before any dice are rolled.

There is.
Scramble happens at the end of movementphase (as the last thing)
Kami assignment happens as the first ting in combatphase, and are resolved before any combat begins
then you do bombing raids
then you do all your amphibous assault combats
then you do general combat.

RulebookE page 16 says

Scrambling is a special movement that the defender can
make at the end of this phase. It must be done after all of
the attacker�s combat movements have been completed

RulebookP Page 16

Japanese
player can announce at the beginning of this phase that he or
she intends to launch one or more kamikaze strikes in that sea
zone. They are resolved before any combat begins.

It isn’t as obvious as what I would like. That’s all I’m saying. You have to dig into the nuances of the rules to understand how everything works.

@knp7765:

Okay, I know this goes against the rules, but it seems to me that your planes stationed on an Airbase or even on an Aircraft Carrier should be able to scramble to defend adjacent territories. Now, planes on a regular territory (no Airbase) could not do this because they are considered “in the field” and would not be available for a quick response (lack of communications, etc.).

Still, doesn’t this seem logical to you guys? That an occupation force would call for air cover from a carrier or air base if counter-attacked?

Here is the HR I can probably use:
An adjacent operational Air Base provides up to 3 planes (Fg or TcB).
Each carrier can provide 1 plane in an adjacent land territory (Fg or TcB).
An adjacent territory can provide 1 plane (Fg or TcB).

In any situation, keep this limitation:
it is up to 3 planes (Fg or TcB) max which can be scrambled into an adjacent territory under attack.

In addition:
any territory under attack can allow an aerial retreat for 1 single plane (Fg, TcB or StB) or up to 3 planes (Fg, TcB or StB) if there is an operational AB, the range is only 1 territory or SZ move.

Does anyone see some specific drawback to this limited two ways: inward air-support/ outward air retreat?

If the rule is kept within the same limit as the scramble rule in a SZ, players are already taking account of this special air reinforcement, it shouldn’t be difficult to watch it even if it is applied on land territories. What do you think?

@Dark_Destroyer:

RAW = Says nothing about air units, just “additional units”.  RAI = Means air included.

It says nothing explicitly about sea units, either.  The type of units is unspecified, implying that any type of unit that may legally move there is allowed.

@Dark_Destroyer:

RAW = Can not move into a territory unless it’s occupied by enemy forces.  This would include sea zones that don’t scramble.

An exception for an amphibious assault where scrambling may occur is explicitly made here.

@Dark_Destroyer:

If you don’t scramble and don’t have any enemy forces and don’t amphibiously assault, moving airplanes into that sea zone is not a valid move.

True.

@Dark_Destroyer:

RAI = You can always bring air into sea zones just to cover what if’s.

No.  RAW = You can always bring units (sea and/or air) into sea zones from which you’re doing an amphibious assault, if there is a potential for the defender to scramble.

@creeping-deth87:

I’m surprised there isn’t a more definitive answer. I CAN’T be the first person to think of doing this.

I’m not seeing anything in the rules that would disallow it. A carrier is a valid landing space for any fighter or tac bomber, the rules don’t mention ensuring sufficient capacity for landings.

It is pretty much definitive. It says you can’t send them on suicide missions (or some wording akin to that).

As the others have mentioned. You need to have a potential landing spot to send aircraft to fight. If only having 2 potential landing spots (assuming perfect rolls), you can only dedicate two air planes.

@deadbunny:

the USA can build a massive fleet and either take Rome or move into Africa(I have seen both done in a single turn).

Do you mean building the fleet and taking Rome and Africa in the same turn? I must be misunderstanding this post.

Well, if I had written it, I think I would have been referring to SZ 92 which is where the US may want to be at the end of turn 4. It can dump troops into both Italy and Egypt. Maybe as a turn to take away victory cities? Otherwise, I’d just go straight for Italy and reinforce it next turn.

@Dylan:

Still the setup says that.

The setup also says to put “artilley” in Western US and Japan… so what have you been doing about that? :-D