Potential Flashpoint for Internatinal Conflict

Indonesia has tripled the price of coal exported to China, to take advantage of their economic rise.
They may curtail exports more severely and utilize that coal for their own development.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-19/cheap-coal-is-dead-long-live-renewables-part-1-.html

The rising $/KWH electrical rate is slowing down growth in China and India.

Remember how energy resource aquisitions drove a lot of German and Japanese military planners in WWII?

No nation can sustain armed offensives when they lack energy/fuel.

@MrMalachiCrunch:

Told by their mouthpiece newspaper but again, no paper in China prints what those in power wish to be printed

Back when the USSR existed, there was a joke about an American tourist in Moscow asking a resident what the difference was between the newspapers Pravda (“Truth”) and Izvestia (“Information”).  The resident answered, “It’s very simple.  In Pravda, you will find much information but little truth.  In Izvestia you will find much truth but little information.”

Im just wondering out loud here, but has anyone considered just leaving this alone and letting China and the S.E. nations involved work this out themselves? Dose it really matter if China claims control over a bunch of small atolls and islands in the south China sea? What harm will it really do to the U.S. and how is ticking off what will shortly be the worlds largest economy good for the U.S. in the long term? I know there are some kind of natural resources in the area (oil and natural gas) but so what, wouldn’t the smarter long term plan be to develop more advanced forms of energy use so we no longer needed to worry about or depend on fossil fuels and leave it to the Chinese?

@MrMalachiCrunch:

No, I think the rule of international law should be upheld.

Whose version of “international law” should be upheld then? I mean lets be honest the only reason the US is in involved with this mess is because China is one of the key players, if it wasn’t for that the US and the rest of the western press would have no interest in this. Viet-nam, Indonesia, the Philippines and other countries in the area (including Taiwan and Malaysia) all have competing and conflicting claims to these islands, if China wasn’t involved it would just be these small countries squabbling amongst themselves and no one would really care. This has nothing to do with China being a “bully”, but with the US seeing a easy to up our PR in the region and win a few brownie points with the more “bleeding heart” liberal types. Also any chance the US can get to take a “morally superior” stance against China they take because they can’t compete with them economically.

@MrMalachiCrunch:

So China has signed onto this law along with all the other countries in the area.  Dontcha think it might be a good idea to force China to accept a law/agreement it signed up to.

Sure, but since the US hasn’t signed onto that list, isn’t it extremely hypocritical for the US to try to force the Chinese to abide by “rules” that even they themselves don’t agree with? Why don’t other nations take the lead in this one? Is Canada signed onto that list? If so why don’t they take the lead in forcing China to accept the law they signed up to?

I think this is a waste of Americas time and energy, and that we should be more focused on dealing with a laundry list of domestic problems rather the faffing about in the South China sea trying to pretend like we’re still the world police.

@MrMalachiCrunch:

Or do you think nations should just be allowed to break the law whenever they can get away with it?

I live in the USA where corporations routinely break the law, cause catastrophic economic and environmental damage, and receive little more then a slap on the wrist, So while I might not think it’s ok apparently my government dose, So what can you do?  :-(

@MrMalachiCrunch:

I for one like the rule of law, it seems to lead to less wars.

Hmmm, I don’t know about that, forcing a country to accept things rather then trying to work out a compromise would seem to lead to more conflict rather then less.

I really respect the reasons Americans in general don’t like signing onto these agreements.  It makes sense to me.

These global governing bodies are a sham, and people should make every attempt to subvert them.  Local governance is superior governance in general - that’s the bottom line.

@MrMalachiCrunch:

You have checked the map of what China claims I hope?  There are areas well over 1000 miles from China’s coastline and yet less than 100 miles from somebody else’s coastline that China claims.  There is no logic to that.  It’s not like they are basing it on a 200 mile limit from a contested island.

Ok, but you do know that America controls Samoa, and Guam and both of those places are well over 4,000 miles from the US coastline, and very close the the coast lines of other countries as well right? Under that logic the US would have to give up those territories as well as Hawaii which is over 2,000 miles from the the US mainland. There is also the British position in the Falkland islands as well to think about.

@MrMalachiCrunch:

Or we could sit back and let a bully take and say “……peace with honour. I believe it is peace for our time. We thank you from the bottom of our hearts. And now I recommend you to go home and sleep quietly in your beds.”

I’m sorry but as you yourself said earlier China is NOT Germany in 1938, China is a very different animal altogether and the global conditions and geo-political setting is a far cry from that of the Munich agreement, it’s not a fair comparison in the least.

@MrMalachiCrunch:

Honestly, all things aside, do you think what China is claiming is fair to others?

Honestly, I couldn’t care less about it, in reality the Chinese claiming these islands are nothing new as the KMT claimed it in 1947 and the PRC have done so since 1949. I find it interesting that when they originally made that claim Vietnam, then only North Vietnam, recognized and supported the Chinese claims but now have changed their tune. How is China’s claim any different from the claims of Indonesia or the Vietnam? The truth is they aren’t, but because China has the economic, military, and diplomatic ability to assert their claims (finally) people get all bent out of shape. I think that this is an issue that is best left alone by the Western world and it should be left to those in that area.

Malachi I read about this this morning, -front page- of my home paper, and came here to update this thread…

Looks like you beat me already!

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/china-japan-heading-towards-war-says-us-defence-secretary-leon-panetta/story-e6frg6so-1226475484583

If the Japz and Chinese go to war, I’m going to enlist on behalf of the J’s.

These Island disputes with japan have been going on for ever since the end of WW2. This is nothing new or special and they tend to flair up every few years. Japan and Korea still have these diplomatic issues with both claiming Dokdo island and they occasionally erupt in clashes between Japanese and Korean fishing vessels.  Japan and Taiwan also have similar disagreements over the rights to various islands and who can fish there, which again, flair up into violence sometimes. Its really not that big of a deal, and believe me its not that hard to get people in China calling for blood when it’s something involving Japan.

@Gargantua:

If the Japz and Chinese go to war, I’m going to enlist on behalf of the J’s.

That eager to get yourself killed?