@ampdrive Italy declared war on UK to try to get a strategic edge before UK made the first move. The reason for going into France is to take an advantage of the fact that France clearly was fighting like shite and wanted to gain easy land.
UK Gov't in exile Discussion - Delta 1
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@Young:
@special:
@Young:
4. All French units immediately become German units (even if London falls to Italy). For example: a French destroyer becomes a German destroyer and a French infantry becomes a German infantry all in the location they occupied at the time of capture.
Fun idea, but…
1. Do French territories now become German territories? If so, then for example USA can take them and they would become American. And also Germany would collect income for them, of course.
2. Do the French units revert back to being Allied after London is liberated or do they stay German??
No, French units that turn German do not revert back to French units after England is liberated.
No, original French territories are in limbo for the allies, but may be taken over by axis powers.
So if a french unit turns German, the territory it stands in becomes (immediately?) German, right? (as it is a german taking an Allied territory)
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@special:
@Young:
@special:
@Young:
4. All French units immediately become German units (even if London falls to Italy). For example: a French destroyer becomes a German destroyer and a French infantry becomes a German infantry all in the location they occupied at the time of capture.
Fun idea, but…
1. Do French territories now become German territories? If so, then for example USA can take them and they would become American. And also Germany would collect income for them, of course.
2. Do the French units revert back to being Allied after London is liberated or do they stay German??
No, French units that turn German do not revert back to French units after England is liberated.
No, original French territories are in limbo for the allies, but may be taken over by axis powers.
So if a french unit turns German, the territory it stands in becomes (immediately?) German, right? (as it is a german taking an Allied territory)
You know what, this varient is getting complicated, I mean what do we do about French units sharing territories with other allied units, let’s just scrap that aspect and keep it simple.
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How is the UK able to get back into the game with only $7, and what happens to original British territories in other parts of the europe side that have not yet been captured by the axis?
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@Young:
You know what, this varient is getting complicated, I mean what do we do about French units sharing territories with other allied units, let’s just scrap that aspect and keep it simple.
You could limit it to the French troops within France, but then again, how many will there be left once London falls?
It’s a fun idea, but probably best if it remains an idea.
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@Young:
How is the UK able to get back into the game with only $7,
in short: American help.
and what happens to original British territories in other parts of the europe side that have not yet been captured by the axis?
Same as with other fallen nations, they are limbo until the (real) capitol is liberated and give no IPC’s to anyone.
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Sounds like a headache trying to keep track of what’s in limbo and what’s collectable, as for America, sounds like their on their own, because all the UK will be able to contribute is a single transport each round, I thought the Government in exile rule was being created to allow the UK player to still have a fun game after London falls, spending $7 is close to not spending at all, that’s just my personal opinion, you gotta go with what the majority feels however the out come. The good news is, we all agree on the foundation of the rule.
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That’s not what I am saying. Canada is an independant nation that is a part of the British Commonwealth, as such, it can qualify to take over the reigns of the empire if London falls. I’m all good with that. What I am saying is that, to me, in my opinion, if Canada gets to be the new head of the British Empire after London falls, it should be the HEAD of the British Empire!
I am just worried that Canada is being turned into an independant nation (if London falls) with no real power for no reason other than it would be cool to have Canada live on.
@Young:
@Cmdr:
It is still my opinion that if Canada is not the real British capitol once London falls (in so much as using uncaptured British facilities and collecting for all uncaptured British territories) then there is really no point in having the rule. It feels like we are making a special exemption so that the Canadian members have some emotional boost because Canada does not fall with England.
Sorry, that’s just how I see it.
I was hoping this nation could continue to fight in Africa. Since England is a commonwealth of many nations (Canada, India, Australia, England…) then it felt right that it would keep fighting where other nations stopped. I was working under the impression that we wanted England to keep pressure on Italy, not let them suddenly take over Africa with little opposition.
Jen, who is saying that the capital won’t be in Canada after the colapes of London? I don’t understand your concern, because I am a Canadian member and I don’t let patriotism dictate what I think is a sensible game mechanic. Could you be more specific.
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@Young:
Sounds like a headache trying to keep track of what’s in limbo and what’s collectable, as for America, sounds like their on their own, because all the UK will be able to contribute is a single transport each round, I thought the Government in exile rule was being created to allow the UK player to still have a fun game after London falls, spending $7 is close to not spending at all, that’s just my personal opinion, you gotta go with what the majority feels however the out come. The good news is, we all agree on the foundation of the rule.
Not really, originally simply everything goes in limbo. income is still kept on the income-board, only no money is given. Keeping Gov in E. restricted to Canada makes it easy: only count the Canadian IPC’s.
Interesting how per idea 5 problems arise, right? :)
And basicly, when UK falls under normal rules (be it OOB or Alpha), it’s just as well up to the USA to fix the problem. Is that a pain for them? Yes, and it is supposed to be!
By the way, i never seen Gov in E. as a way to keep it fun for UK. Just so you know ;)
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@Cmdr:
That’s not what I am saying. Canada is an independant nation that is a part of the British Commonwealth, as such, it can qualify to take over the reigns of the empire if London falls. I’m all good with that. What I am saying is that, to me, in my opinion, if Canada gets to be the new head of the British Empire after London falls, it should be the HEAD of the British Empire!
I am just worried that Canada is being turned into an independant nation (if London falls) with no real power for no reason other than it would be cool to have Canada live on.
@Young:
@Cmdr:
It is still my opinion that if Canada is not the real British capitol once London falls (in so much as using uncaptured British facilities and collecting for all uncaptured British territories) then there is really no point in having the rule. It feels like we are making a special exemption so that the Canadian members have some emotional boost because Canada does not fall with England.
Sorry, that’s just how I see it.
I was hoping this nation could continue to fight in Africa. Since England is a commonwealth of many nations (Canada, India, Australia, England…) then it felt right that it would keep fighting where other nations stopped. I was working under the impression that we wanted England to keep pressure on Italy, not let them suddenly take over Africa with little opposition.
Jen, who is saying that the capital won’t be in Canada after the colapes of London? I don’t understand your concern, because I am a Canadian member and I don’t let patriotism dictate what I think is a sensible game mechanic. Could you be more specific.
Other than the little maple leaf graphics on the Canadian territories, as far as I’m concerned, there is no Canada in this game, independent or otherwise, it’s all UK. So, I agree with you.
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The amount of income the exiled UK gets is a wrinkle that shouln’t be difficult to iron out.
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@Young:
The amount of income the exiled UK gets is a wrinkle that shouln’t be difficult to iron out.
And so it should be. Especially with the rule that USA jumps into war when London falls.
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@special:
@Young:
The amount of income the exiled UK gets is a wrinkle that shouln’t be difficult to iron out.
And so it should be. Especially with the rule that USA jumps into war when London falls.
You may be right, gotta do what we can to keep sealion a viable option.
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@Young:
@special:
@Young:
The amount of income the exiled UK gets is a wrinkle that shouln’t be difficult to iron out.
And so it should be. Especially with the rule that USA jumps into war when London falls.
You may be right, gotta do what we can to keep sealion a viable option.
Use the Alpha 3 map, but add the German NO for London again and it’s not only viable, but recommended as far as I am concerned.
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@Cmdr:
@Young:
@special:
@Young:
The amount of income the exiled UK gets is a wrinkle that shouln’t be difficult to iron out.
And so it should be. Especially with the rule that USA jumps into war when London falls.
You may be right, gotta do what we can to keep sealion a viable option.
Use the Alpha 3 map, but add the German NO for London again and it’s not only viable, but recommended as far as I am concerned.
I will be suggesting the entire Alpha+3 set up next poll, with the AA Gun rule, but is sealion still viable with out the SBR rules as well?
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Yes it is. The average 12 damage to England was just icing on the cake, it was not the eggs that bound the cake together.
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I think we have had a good discussion about Government in Exile and I have put together two second drafts of the rule that I think take everyone’s suggestions into account. I am going to post them here so you can suggest any more tweaks that you think are necessary, and then have a final Binding Vote to decide which one to use. The accepted rule will appear in the Political Situation section of the Delta 1 rulebook and will become the law of the land.
Here they are:
OPTION A.
UK Europe government in exile
The first time London is captured by an axis power, the capitol of UK Europe moves to Ottawa, Canada. The axis power that captures London seizes all IPCs currently held by UK Europe. The United States and Soviet union immediately join the Allies if they are not yet at war. Beginning at the Collect Income phase of its next turn, and as long as the government is in exile, it will collect income for all UK controlled territories within Canada. The government in exile may mobilize units only in Canadian industrial complexes.Because trade between Canada and Great Britain is halted when London is occupied by the axis, sea zone 106 ceases to be a convoy raid zone anytime that London is axis controlled.
Once per game, at the Collect Income phase of a turn when the UK government is in exile and London has been liberated, the Government in exile may return to London; or it may choose to remain in Canada. When it returns to London, the UK Europe government will collect income for all UK controlled territories on the Europe map and on the following turn it may mobilize units in any UK controlled industrial complex on the Europe map.
OPTION B.
UK Europe government in exile
The first time London is captured by an axis power, the capitol of UK Europe moves to Quebec, Canada. The axis power that captures London seizes all IPCs currently held by UK Europe. The United States and Soviet union immediately join the Allies if they are not yet at war. Beginning at the Collect Income phase of its next turn, and as long as the UK government is in exile, it will collect income for all UK controlled territories on the Europe map. The government in exile may mobilize units only in Canadian industrial complexes.Also, the first time London is captured by an axis power, unless Scotland is axis controlled, it will become a pro-allies neutral territory with a standing army of 4 infantry, plus any UK land units present in Scotland at the time London is captured by the axis.
Because trade between Canada and Great Britain is halted when London is occupied by the axis, sea zone 106 ceases to be a convoy raid zone anytime that London is axis controlled. Because trade between Great Britain and its former colonies is also halted, sea zones 109 and 119 cease to be convoy raid zones anytime London is axis controlled. To reflect trade between Great Britain and Germany, sea zone 110 becomes a convoy raid zone anytime London is axis controlled.
Once per game, at the Collect Income phase of a turn when the UK government is in exile and London has been liberated, the Government in exile may return to London; or it may choose to remain in Canada. When it returns to London, the UK Europe government will continue to collect income for all UK controlled territories on the Europe map and on the following turn it may mobilize units in any UK controlled industrial complex on the Europe map.
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Vance, special forces and I have found a lot of problems with the French units becoming German, could you please delete if from option B as that aspect is badly broken. Thanks.
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OK. Vichy is gone.
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@Young:
Sounds like a headache trying to keep track of what’s in limbo and what’s collectable, as for America, sounds like their on their own, because all the UK will be able to contribute is a single transport each round, I thought the Government in exile rule was being created to allow the UK player to still have a fun game after London falls, spending $7 is close to not spending at all, that’s just my personal opinion, you gotta go with what the majority feels however the out come. The good news is, we all agree on the foundation of the rule.
The main issue I see with having Canada control all UK territories is that then the other allies(read US) cannot capture and control former UK territories. Every time the allies liberate a territory it will return to Canadas coffers even though UK is conquered. Keeping it limited to Canada means US can still reconquer Egypt, or Scotland.
I do see Canada at 7ipcs as not really being able to do /anything/. They may need more income, not sure.
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UK starts the game with territories worth 28 IPCs. If they lose UK (6) and Scotland (2), they are down to 20. That’s really not all that much. That income might also be reduced somewhat if we leave z106 alone (i.e. now there will be ships coming to Canada FROM Africa and middle east). Also, some of their income would go to build a minor IC for Ontario if they want to mobilize troops instead of expensive naval and air units.
Given that Neutral Blocks may turn out to be a major pro-axis change (i.e. vulnerable Caucasus), I would go for Option B if all the complicated sea zone changes are removed. This makes it easier to play too. So I am going to put that up as Option C. Anyone is welcome to suggest other options so please feel free.
OPTION C.
UK Europe government in exile
The first time London is captured by an axis power, the capitol of UK Europe moves to Quebec, Canada. The axis power that captures London seizes all IPCs currently held by UK Europe. The United States and Soviet union immediately join the Allies if they are not yet at war. Beginning at the Collect Income phase of its next turn, and as long as the UK government is in exile, it will collect income for all UK controlled territories on the Europe map. The government in exile may mobilize units only in Canadian industrial complexes.Also, the first time London is captured by an axis power, unless Scotland is axis controlled, it will become a pro-allies neutral territory with a standing army of 4 infantry, plus any UK land units present in Scotland at the time London is captured by the axis.
Once per game, at the Collect Income phase of a turn when the UK government is in exile and London has been liberated, the Government in exile may return to London; or it may choose to remain in Canada. When it returns to London, the UK Europe government will continue to collect income for all UK controlled territories on the Europe map and on the following turn it may mobilize units in any UK controlled industrial complex on the Europe map.
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