Alpha 3 due next week

Well, I have read over all of the new rules and I hate to say that I am not very impressed the changes that have been made… The AA guns in London will make Sea Lion much more difficult, the AA gun in Paris will add more damage to the German Air Force on turn 1, and the Russian/Mongolia rule makes an attack on the USSR by Japan much less likely.  All and all, it looks like the new setup takes options off the table for the Axis and gives more advantage to the Allies (who do not need any more advantages).

Perhaps Italy will be more viable with the new fleet configuration, but I will have to play test it to be sure.  Right now Alpha 2 looks like the more balanced game.

Wow, you guys are pretty down. All valid points though… Play testing will make the final case I suppose.

That said, how would you make Alpha 3? What key changes would you make (specifically) if you were larry? Maybe this forum can come up with a Beta1 (if enough agree) and play test it?

Just a thought…

Yeah, I think that overall Alpha 3 seems more detrimental to the Axis, Germany in particular. 
Japan wasn’t affected too much.  That change with the Japan/Soviet non-agression treaty doesn’t seem to be that big a deal to me, unless you are doing a strategy where Japan attacks Russia to help weaken it for Germany.  That new NO does seem pretty hard for Japan to obtain, although it makes good historical sense.
Italy seems to have benefitted a little.  I like their navy being a little more spread out and the of the tac bomber for the strat bomber.  It kind of makes the Taranto raid useless for the British since one major reason for it was you got to kill 2 of Italy’s 3 transports.
Germany has been put in a really rough spot.  I agree with most of you that Sealion is almost a non-existant strategy now.  Somewhat the same odds but 4 extra defensive soaks for Britain certainly lowers Germany’s chances.  The AA gun in Paris makes that attack harder, but to be honest, I often wondered why Paris didn’t have one in the first place.  Also, did anyone else notice that Germany is losing a Tac Bomber in Western Germany?  Used to be 3, now it’s 2.  As if it wasn’t already hard enough to sink the Royal Navy.  I don’t like that change.
One change I really don’t like is Russia’s ability to declare war on Germany if London falls.  Not only does it really screw up Germany’s chances for a decent Barbarossa (and may end up being a sort of reverse-Barbarossa), it is also very ahistorical.  From everything I have seen and read on WW2, I just don’t believe that Russia would have attacked Germany if Germany captured London.  For one thing, Stalin actually believed in the Russo/German pact.  He really thought that Hitler would honor it, even when the reports of massive German mobilization up to the Russian border came flooding in.  Also, the USSR was busy trying to upgrade their own armed forces which were in very poor shape after his purges.  Look how far Germany pushed into the Soviet Union before the terrible winter came, taking pockets of 200,000 - 300,000 prisoners because the Red Army was in such poor shape and had such inexperienced leadership.  Stalin didn’t want a war with Germany and I think there was no way he would actually attack Germany.  Plus, I don’t think Stalin really gave a crap about England anyway.

Honestly,  alpha 2 was close to being balanced IMO,  the only changes I would have made would have been, swap 1 DD in sz95 with one TT in sz 97 and move the fighter and tac in  N Italy to S Italy.  This would have given Italy a good chance to keep her two transports and gain steam early on,  thus forcing USA to build in the alantic earlier easing off Japan.

Just my 2 cents

@billinjackson:

Wow, you guys are pretty down. All valid points though… Play testing will make the final case I suppose.

That said, how would you make Alpha 3? What key changes would you make (specifically) if you were larry? Maybe this forum can come up with a Beta1 (if enough agree) and play test it?

Just a thought…

I like the Mongolians entering the war, but that’s about it. I’m not sure about the Paris NO yet. It might be good. I certainly wouldn’t have made Germany’s opening harder, or have made Sealion pointless.

I would have done more to split the attention of the US. Give Tobruk an AA gun and S. Italy a tac in addition to the strat bomber. Italy has a better fighting chance and the US would have to commit something to the Med/Africa.

G4 invasion of london seems to be the way to go now imo. G3 is now alot harder. W8ing untill G4 will now also keep the russians (and not just the americans) out of the war. The upside is that the UK fleet in the med will not likely get back up to defend sea lion. With Japan i guess i J4 attack towards India will be my strat of choise in the first game. The Island NO is now kind of hard to get and the Indian AA will be less effective. The fleet of Italy will take a beating and maybe going for a neutral crush will be an option to get into the middle east.

I am not sure that the new set up and the new rules will reduce the axis win-ratio but i do feel that there are less routes for the axis to go and that is a bit boring. There might be strats that have not evolved yet but at first glance i am not overly exited.

I am content that Sealion is now really difficult.  I’ve no problem with that, but now I am not sure how they can win.

I’ll have to start a game here in the coming days.

I really do like the new italian set-up, they are in a much stronger position then they where in A2. They destroyer and the tt will ofc be sunk but there is no way for the UK to mass up outside Gib and with german planes in s italy both the main fleets will be safe from attack on UK1.

It almost seems as the UK east med fleet might have to escape to the Indian Ocean to avoid getting sunk sooner or later. In UK1 i guess they can block but the blockers will get sunk I1 and then the AC will have to flee. They can also try and mass at Malta with some air cover but the Italians will be able to take them out there aswell. I guess the other option would be to bring the fleet from India and South Africa into the med to reinforce in UK2 but even then the Italians will have a nice shoot at them if they build a ship or a plane I1.

The UK could ofc build an airbase in egypt and fly down figs from the brittish isles to protect their combined med/pacific fleet but then sealion will become alot easier.

:?

To me it looks like Italy will lose 3/4 of their fleet instead of half in Alpha 2.

well, there will be a trade of for the germans, they wont be able to send all thier air out to attack the uk fleet, 2 planes will have to fly south, if they fly from holland or w. germany they can hit normandy on their way, that leaves 8 planes to attack the 2 bb:s in the north sea.

i would:

use 1 fig from holland to hit normandy togheter with enough land troops to take out the fig with out loosing mine (the fig lands in s. italy)

rest of the land troops in range to hit paris

the tbmb from poland with my bb and ca to hit the 2 ca:s outside denmark

2 ss, 1 fig and 1 bmb to hit 111

2 ss, 3 fig and 2 tac to hit 110

one of the attacks on the bb:s will be 50/50 if they scramble, i would choose 111 as the bb there does not have a naval base.

The fig in slovakia can be used against yogo and then also land in s. italy. The Paris attack will not be a good one but the Italians can clear it up in thier turn.

With 3 figs in S. Italy and the fig in normandy dead i cant see any attacks from the britts on any of the two major italian fleets.

@jim010:

I am content that Sealion is now really difficult.  I’ve no problem with that, but now I am not sure how they can win.

I’ll have to start a game here in the coming days.

Agreed, it was fairly difficult to pull off in Alpha 2… its almost as if one of the goals with Alpha 3 is to eliminate Sea Lion as a strategy all together.  Between the new AA rules, the reduction in German air power, and the fact that Russia now gets to declare war when London falls, Sea Lion is all but off the table.

I do not want to knock this version too hard, as I have not gotten to play it yet, however on paper it certainly seems to take some options off the table for the Axis.

Mongolia rule is interesting, but too complex and buggy (Japan can attack by sea or from SFE/Siberia). The simplest was include the mongolians as part of the non-agression treaty. It’s annoying how we cannot have a decent NAP rule a version after another, being so easy as it is forcing the breaker of the pact to pay some IPCs (15-20)

China still has not aa guns and the ACME wall is still there. Crappy

I still think that Axis keeps alpha2+ advantage. Anyway, let’s hope Mr. Harris send us a final version someday. I continue refuse playing non final versions  :| Testing alphas continue being work of WOTC testers, not player’s work

How do the Axis have the advantage in Alpha + 2?  Sorry but I’m not seeing it.

O M G ! MY ITALIAN STRATEGIC BOMBER MADE IT INTO THE SETUP!!!

There also seem to be one less tac bomber in w germany even tho it is not marked as a change. If its not removed the 2 BB:s could both be good attacks even with scrambles. I cant see the point in removing this tbh, maybe just a missprint or might be to compensate for upgraded italian bomber.

The US should be able to defend sea zones south and west of Iceland against all threats. That was a US/UK agreement in WWII that allowed the UK to concentrate East of Iceland.

Other than one game, where i was the culprit with good reason (And the US was already in the war)  why would anyone attack Iceland?

Naval attacks in the SZ south and west of Iceland. The US took on that responsibility after a transport with US citizens was sunk by a German sub.