RESEARCH FACILITIES - and Infrastructure - Simple rule additions

@dadler12:

@Dijitz:

OR, you can keep the AA50 style (like we do) and use the research facilities to give you a -1 for one dice (rolled separately)… so like, breakthrough on a 5. When captured, opponent captures a scientist. When bombed to full damage in a single SBR (complete annihilation), or a 1 is rolled (lucky shot), loose one scientist. Scientists still cost 5 IPCs. Still roll amount of dice equal to amount of scientists, keeping dice enhanced by facilities separate from dice that are not.

so a scientist is the equivalent of a tech token?  are research facilities necessary for tech or do they simply give a bonus?  i dont understand what you’re referencing but it sounds interesting.

Yes, tokens would be researchers.
The research centers would give a bonus. With the AA50 style, I never roll with more than four researchers, so, as an example, I would try to build four research centers so all four of my researchers would get a breakthrough on a five OR six.

just my 2 cents

Yes, but the way I read it, the research centers would be around forever, even if you got a technology.  Whereas, the tokens dissappear and have to be repurchased after every breakthrough.

@Cmdr:

Yes, but the way I read it, the research centers would be around forever, even if you got a technology.  Whereas, the tokens dissappear and have to be repurchased after every breakthrough.

Yup

I think that makes tokens better than research facilities then.  My opinion, your game do what you want.

Ya, but what I’m saying is use both, the facilities give your researchers a bonus, breakthrough on on a five OR six. Just a thought, I like it, more bombing options!

I think the point of the research facility is that you buy it once and get to roll for tech every turn for free.  I like that idea.  Why would you buy a facility for 15 IPC and a tech token for 5 IPC?  Seems redundant.  I was thinking of a way to get an additional roll, and the scientist/tech token idea works for me.  Im gonna play test the idea with the option to buy additional tech rolls for 5 IPC.

How about instead of research facilities you just add those effects to industrial complexes? For every minor you get one free tech roll and for every major you get 2. On top of that you could still buy additional tech rolls. Maybe even keep the steal a tech thing when capturing enemy industrial complexes.

I think the idea was to have a new facility to add a new level of strategy and flavor to the game.

@dadler12:

I think the idea was to have a new facility to add a new level of strategy and flavor to the game.

How about a research facility being operational until you get a breakthrough? Then on the next turn you build a new one if you wish. Maybe facility cost at 10 or 12 IPCs.

I like the idea of purchasing tech straight up. Heaps of money was invested into research and they actually used it. I like the idea of paying $15 for a research facility to be put on your capital. First research costs you an additional 10 bucks which must be purchased the round after you buy the facility. Then if you would like more research make it 12 bucks for the next then 14 so on and so on, just to make you think more seriously about purchasing it. This way you are sinking a heap of money into research ( which actually happened ) and removing all the luck. Facilities would have built in AA guns. You could SBR them . Seeing as there is 12 different techs you make the damage system work the same as ICs. If you have 5 techs and have a damage of 3 then only two techs are avaliable until you repair the facility. Total 12 damage max to the facility. ( no need to go overboard with double damage). Just decide how you will resolve which techs are purchased whether at random or choice and then which ones are damaged. You could reduce the price of buying research each time i mean it is house rules but it seems it would be worth it if you were guaranteed to get it. Maybe for that price you would be able to select exactly which tech you want. Sound fair.

I caught this topic from a Garg post in another topic (tying tech to IC’s). I like what Garg has done here and just wanted to continue the discussion (although it’s been inactive for nearly a year). You can see where Garg left off in the above post.

I like every power gets a research facility (except India, and China) at set-up (15 IPC value). I like that this new facility would be subject to SRR. The one thing I would like to see is a continued investment at these facilities to get tech, rather then just a free dice each turn.

How about if these research facilities worked more like a minor IC. Like a minor IC, if you don’t invest IPCs nothing is produced there.

So your given the facility at your capital, and it’s up to you to invest IPCs to produce tech. You can purchase more research facilities (15 IPCs) if you want to over spend. Each facility has the ability to roll up to 3 dice (like a minor can produce up to 3 units if they buy them). Each dice cost 3 IPCs to roll (you can roll 1-3, or none at all). You buy tech rolls just before the purchase/repair units phase, roll them, and if you get a breakthrough (only one breakthrough per turn still in effect) it goes into effect in the mobilization phase (just like a minor IC). This would allow you to make purchases accordingly, but not use your new tech in combat that turn. Any def tech like radar would be in effect as your turn ends, and you would be eligible for war bonds in the collect income phase of that turn (to spend on your next turn).

SBR would work just like a minor IC (max damage at 6). Each facility would also have built-in AA like a minor IC. If you have 3 damage, your facility is down, and you can’t buy research dice (just like you can’t produce units at a minor). You have to buy out damage markers until you are able to roll dice (two damage on the facility would allow you to buy only one researcher dice). In order to buy and roll 3 dice, you would have to clear all damage markers.

If you want to buy more then 3 dice in a turn, you would have to buy or capture another research facility (2nd facility gives you up to 6 dice). I don’t think that 3 IPCs/dice is too expensive for throw away’s (maybe 2 IPCs would work better for some ppl). You could also go with dice cost 3 IPCs, but the first one is discounted (maybe 2 IPCs), but you should have to pay something IMO. I like that it would be a facility that is subject to SBR, so extra cost could be involved in tech. If it is a pay as you go, then India could also get a research facility at their capital IMO (they rarely have expendable income). If you discount the first roll for a research facility (maybe 1-2 IPCs), then it could be worth it to build a second facility, but capturing an enemies would be pretty cool. Germany or Italy would benefit from the French research facility at Paris early on by being able to roll two dice at a discount (would make up for UK having the same discount ability if Calcutta also has a research facility). Not sure if you should be able to buy research dice before your at war (probably not).

Just thought this was an interesting thread to revive. Garg do you see this as something you would consider as an amendment for your house rule?

I like the idea as proposed. Tech rarely is used in the games I’ve played and when it has it’s always been the U.S. that’s attempted a breakthrough. I like that even the smaller countries will have a shot at it and that you can steal it by capturing a capitol. Well thought out Gargantua!

I think anything along these lines are better then we have now, I really like the thought of a research facility. I’m just not to crazy about no investment at all (free rolls). I also really like that SBR could be part of it, and steeling or sharing tech secrets is very intriguing. Normally when playing w/tech, 3 dice is what I would buy. Maybe that’s why 3 max per facility is appealing to me. If the first was discounted at 2 IPC, and 3 IPC after that, I could see Italy or Anz spending 5 IPCs for 2 dice (half OOB), and US or Germany spending 8 IPC to roll all 3 dice.

OK. Regarding the research facilities, I like the 15 to build, 8 to take, steal tech, etc.

But I think what they should do is each facility puts minus 1 to the number needed to successfully roll a tech OR makes 1 tech roll per turn cost 1 less (2 factories would make it 2 less).

Just completed 3 rounds playing this rule and I like it - alot! Germany took France Rd1 so had two tech rolls starting RD2. US purchased a RF RD1 so also had 2 tech rolls RD2. Out of 22 rolls we only had three hits and 2 of the 3 ended up Radar hits (could possibly be helpful for Germ, not so much for the US) and of course I’m playing the allies! This is why I don’t believe you need to add any more costs, maintanence or otherwise, to this rule. It hasn’t had a major effect (yet!) on our game and it’s really cool to roll a tech dice for each country (especially Anzac!) each turn.