How did playtesters miss J1 attack?

@calvinhobbesliker:

What would your allied players do against kauf’s strat?

Also, have you heard of the J3 India crush?

I’m with calvinliker on this.  Interesting to finally hear someone say they attack on J2 or J3 or whatever, but I can’t imagine.  There are so many targets of opportunity that far outweigh the little 40 IPC to the USA “deterrent” it’s not even funny.  Shoot, the British BB and 2 transports, Hong Kong, the Phillipines, complete with a US fighter and bomber….

Phillipines value to USA - 7
Value to Jap - 2
Bomber and fighter on Phillipines - 22
Transport and destroyer at Phi - 15
UK 2 transports and battleship (less 2/3 chance at losing bomber) - 26
US transport at Hawaii - 7
ANZAC sub - 6
ANZAC transport and destroyer - 15
Taking away the UK’s ability to take money islands - 8 (or more - Jap doesn’t have to kill infantry on said islands later on, and UK could earn it more than 1 turn, I suppose)
Hong Kong to Japan - 8
Hong Kong denied to UK - 8
Annihilating most of the Allied starting boats and demoralizing them pretty much all around - PRICELESS!

Are we past 40 yet???
Seems like a no-brainer to me.  J1 attack all the wayyyyy!!!

@calvinhobbesliker:

Yeah, J1 is the best OOB.

What would be your strategy against kauf’s one? The J3 India crush?

Actually, I didn’t read all of his strategy.

But generally, I prefer letting India earn their pathetic 3-5 IPC’s per turn and crushing it when I can do so without risking as much air to AA fire, and can hopefully lose mostly infantry.  I’d rather forgo the 8 income for a few turns if it’s going to save me several aircraft and leave them free to do other things…  Sometimes I disrupt India’s convoy, too, so that they’re earning pretty much nothing.  If India’s no threat, the only reason to take it is to get the 8 IPC’s of income.  If this is going to cost a lot of planes or tanks, or has a risk of actually failing, I will build up and wait.  With a major complex in Singapore, this is no problem.  I think it’s best to take India on Japan’s terms, at her leisure…  in general…

@calvinhobbesliker:

His strat is basically take the DEI by J2, Malaya on J3, and build a major there J4, while keeping the fleet together and never splitting it

Oh - yeah - I misunderstood your question.

I have very little experience as the Allies.  I’ve only played them maybe once to demonstrate that KUSAF is not a good idea.  I am looking to play as Allies a few times in the near future…  And I’m expecting to get smashed.  :-)

@kungfujew:

This is a post by Larry Harris on his website that I felt I should post regarding this topic since I kind of feel the same way about it that he does.

“It could end up that indeed Japan has turned out to be too strong in P40. I don’t really know yet for sure.”

He doesn’t know for sure!?!

It seems to me that before you release a $100.00 game that one might want to answer this question first, before you put the game out there and start taking people’s money.

@kungfujew:

Okay,  what he’s actually saying is that regardless of what anyone else thinks, Pacific 1940 is it’s own stand alone game that does not need another theater to balance it.

That’s not how I read it. Sounds to me like he’s saying that Japan could end up being too strong.

KungFu, did you bother to take the time to read your own post?

@kaufschtick:

@kungfujew:

This is a post by Larry Harris on his website that I felt I should post regarding this topic since I kind of feel the same way about it that he does.

“It could end up that indeed Japan has turned out to be too strong in P40. I don’t really know yet for sure.”

He doesn’t know for sure!?!

It seems to me that before you release a $100.00 game that one might want to answer this question first, before you put the game out there and start taking people’s money.

I know, right?  I guess he expects the players to figure out the balance and make house rules or bids to balance it for him.

He talks like it’s not supposed to be balanced.  He said “he’s done it” (beaten the Axis with the Allies) which I interpret to mean it doesn’t happen half the time.  I guess the Jap player is expected to win, and if he doesn’t, he got unlucky, or he sucks, or is inexperienced, or some combination.  :-D

@kungfujew:

This is a post by Larry Harris on his website that I felt I should post regarding this topic since I kind of feel the same way about it that he does.

“As for Japan being too powerful…Look, in AAP the Japanese have a 2:1 air force advantage over the allies. At the beginning of the war Japan was truly a supper power in the pacific. It actually had a 6:1 advantage in aviation. It had the Zero which was arguably the best fighter in the world at the time. 6:1!? I could not let history guide the setup to reflect a 6:1 advantage. I’m sure you’ll agree. So I made it a 2:1 advantage, and you lily white pansies are still complaining. Come on… if the real allies could do it (beat the Japs) so can you. Personally I enjoy the challenge.”

Lily white pansies!?!

I don’t think Larry has a leg to stand on if he’s actually trying to connect the dots from actual history to Axis & Allies.

Axis & Allies is a game, and it’s connection to how it portrays actual events can only be described as loosely abstract, and that’s being generous.

The airbase rule is a great example of a rule introduced into the game as a game mechanic first, solely for game balance, and a representation of actual history second.

For example: New Zealand, an island. Malaya, not an island.

Japan, an island. New Guinea, not so much an island.

China falling entirely to Japan?

A fun game to be sure, but as a simulation or a study in the actual historical situation, I think not.

@kungfujew:

This is a post by Larry Harris on his website that I felt I should post regarding this topic since I kind of feel the same way about it that he does.

“I could be wrong but I think there will not be too many early game Russian/Japanese attacks. Why should there be.”

He could be wrong!?!

Not again!!! :-o

Didn’t he ever hear about the JTDTM!?!!! :-o

I found a much better discussion on this J1 attack business at Harris’ site, complete with pictures  :-)

http://www.harrisgamedesign.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=2155

There are actually some allied strats and justifications for waiting to attack as J on this thread…

Although the conclusions are still - J1 Jap advantage, J delay Allied advantage, which brings us full circle.  Why in the world would you wait as Japan??  Maybe I’ll try it when I play a newbie or something.

For those interested, I have some ideas as the allies I’d like to try out.  Let me know if you are interested.

P.S.
kaufschtick, my invitation to play you and your super/uber/unbeatable moves still stands, even if just so that I can see how exactly the whole thing plays out so I can try to think of how I would kick you in the pants if you used it a second time.

I’ll play you KFJ, but it won’t be Kauf’s tactics, as I prefer my own.  Let me know.

@gamerman01:

I found a much better discussion on this J1 attack business at Harris’ site, complete with pictures  :-)

http://www.harrisgamedesign.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=2155

There are actually some allied strats and justifications for waiting to attack as J on this thread…

Although the conclusions are still - J1 Jap advantage, J delay Allied advantage, which brings us full circle.  Why in the world would you wait as Japan??  Maybe I’ll try it when I play a newbie or something.

Well, I mean, if that thread just goes full circle, it’s more of the same as we have here.

If the best Japanese move is to attack J1, and Japan goes first in the game…

@kungfujew:

P.S.
kaufschtick, my invitation to play you and your super/uber/unbeatable moves still stands, even if just so that I can see how exactly the whole thing plays out so I can try to think of how I would kick you in the pants if you used it a second time.  :p

Look, I came on here to find strategies for the Allies in this game, and to see if others were seeing the same high ratio of Japanese wins in the game as we were. To reinforce or debunk our suspicion that the game was broken. If you want to see how this thing plays out, I hate to tell you that there is no script to what we’ve seen. I’ve laid out the basics of what the Japanese pursue already, you can go back and read them.

@jim010:

I’ll play you KFJ, but it won’t be Kauf’s tactics, as I prefer my own.  Let me know.

See, Jim is doing the same type of thing, different meathod.

As far as the moves I have described in my posts,  they are not my “super/uber/unbeatable” moves. They are moves that my friend and I (mostly my best friend) came to develope over many playings of the game. It’s not the moves that are so tough for the Allies to overcome, it’s the general situation and strategy.

You seem to be missing the point that I didn’t come here looking for an opponent, although I’m not opposed to the idea if friendly relations develope with folks on here.  :-)

When my friends and I play, we play to have fun, we drinks lots of beer, smoke a lot of cigars (usually), and have a blast. We aren’t worried about super/uber moves, or really who wins or looses. We do like to play the game well, don’t get me wrong, but mostly we’re looking for a good game and good company.

In answer to your “invitation”, I only play games amongst friends.

So if I don’t accept your invitation, you’ll know why.

I think you double posted.

… hmm … did the order of the posts change, or is it me?

He could be wrong!?!

Not again!!! :-o

You should just be happy that he’s still making it, and not freak out about every little issue.

@jim010:

… hmm … did the order of the posts change, or is it me?

I don’t know what you’re talking about…. :lol:

What are you smokin’ over there Jim?  :-D

Somebody cut Jim off, I think he’s had a little too much… :-D :-D :-D :wink:

I smoke the good stuff … I can hear colours now!!

@jim010:

I smoke the good stuff … I can hear colours now!!

Focus Jim, focus, we need you sober in this thread!  :-D :-D

In all seriousness, I now know of 3 Jap strategies that will win 3/4 against equal opponents, in my opinion.  One of them even decid3es the game in the first turn!  That’s 75%.  Pretty high.

For me, it is simple - bid.  Tounaments usually use a bid system anyway, and it is the best way to balance not just a game, but 2 opponents as well.  Also makes for much less scripted gameplay - at least until the optimal bid and placement is found.

That being said, my last couple of games on here have shown me a couple of things for the allies that worked out a bit may give better results (notice I didn’t say an equal chance of winning).  I haven’t played Allies in a while and would like to try these ideas out.  Takers?

For me, I’ve got vacation coming up next week, and my good drinking buddy out in Dayton is off from Monday night to Thursday night, so We’ll be playing the US immediate 40 a bunch more.

I’m with my good friend on the immediate 40 vs the bid right now. He brings up the good point that immediate 40 is only one simple change to the game, and it doesn’t force the game into scripted play.

We’ve only got 8 games in like this so far; but so far, so good. They’ve all been competitive and fun.

Plus, the US player gets to decide what to spend the now added extra 40 IPCs on on the first turn, so In a way, it’s kinda like a 40 IPC bid to the US.

So far, we’ve been using the extra US1 income for a second US1 CV and three transports. The US1 buy is for 57 IPC, which we get 2 x CVs, 3 x Transports, and there is 4 left over for an arty.

That’s really not too much, and is the only change to the game we make. Everything else stays with the OOB rules.

Well, Harris’ answers were certainly interesting.

Larry, Japan is indeed overpowered in PAC1940.
A good Japanese player will win the vast majority of the time using OOB rules.

As observed in other threads on this site, a mediocre Japan can easily fritter away its advantage, giving the win to the allies. This is the source of doubt.

A tournament-level Japan player will CRUSH the allies after a J1 attack. The initial advantage is just too much to overcome.