I was hoping for a general concensus… You all play a lot more than me and I dont have time to be playtesting.
:?
there’s not a general concensus. Many opinions vary on USA income and Russia.
Air and Naval Bases in Europe/Global 40
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Its almost unusable? I play with Russia the old school way. Buy stacks of infantry and NOTHING ELSE. With mech infantry now. artillery are really really redundant.
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They can’t really have mechanized infantry or jet fighters because they would obsolete the new units. Even long rang aircraft would ruin air bases. Well anyway I’ll probably just use what ever IL comes up with. Or just use the NAs Danny Boy made for Pacific.
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Its almost unusable? I play with Russia the old school way. Buy stacks of infantry and NOTHING ELSE. With mech infantry now. artillery are really really redundant.
(Hopefully it is legal to take my own subforum off topic, because I don’t mind…)
I am not sure I understand why artillery are redundant now, as you say. To me they still have a place, perhaps more so for Russia than anyone else.
Artillery pieces are most useful if you have large quantities of infantry, like Russia does. Their pace is the same as that of infantry, so they can stay together during movement. And artillery can do wonders for attached infantry if the amount is right. Although infantry are the easiest buy for Russia, I feel that they need some sort of offensive punch/mobility, otherwise they get crushed by the Germans. Russia cannot afford to just dawdle the game out with infantry, at least that has been my experience. (Unless the Russian player basically has the other Allies Lend-Lease him everything they produce… but that it not a winning strategy either.)
And as for redundancy, artillery’s supportive role for infantry is unique within the game. Mechanized infantry, by contrast, are useful in their 2 space movement ability, but in combat that is unavailable without a matching tank. And Mech Infantry can still only attack on 1s. Now I can’t say with certainty pertaining to E40 and G40 because I have not played them, but in past games the most cost and tactically effective buy for Russia are infantry and artillery. (I think a few tanks are a good buy too, at least before they became 6 IPCs). Mech Infantry are no better than artillery, they only have different attributes. And there will be instances where Mech infantry are the better buy, it just depends. But I believe artillery still have their place.
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LHoffman, check out this thread for discussion of the use of artillery with Russia.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=15160.0 -
@SAS:
LHoffman, check out this thread for discussion of the use of artillery with Russia.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=15160.0Thanks SAS, that was helpful.
I don’t think artillery is a game changer really, but they can help, especially if you have the extra couple IPCs to upgrade some of the infantry you’d buy to artillery. I have never gotten, or wished to get, Advanced artillery. While it may not be bad to have if you are Russia, there are generally better things to go for.
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They can’t really have mechanized infantry or jet fighters because they would obsolete the new units. Even long rang aircraft would ruin air bases. Well anyway I’ll probably just use what ever IL comes up with. Or just use the NAs Danny Boy made for Pacific
What are Danny Boy’s NAs?
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I think you misunderstood me. You can buy other stuff with Russia. But realize you are taking a chance that it might not work. Infantry Spamming however works 100 percent of the time. GO ahead try your way. it might work and i emphasise that word “might”=maybe. But mine works every time without fail. And yes advanced artillery was a gimmick. I changed it to something usable. Really its a personal preference not an attack on the game creators. You can buy artillery with other nations but dont take chances with the Russian purchase phase.
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They can’t really have mechanized infantry or jet fighters because they would obsolete the new units. Even long rang aircraft would ruin air bases. Well anyway I’ll probably just use what ever IL comes up with. Or just use the NAs Danny Boy made for Pacific
What are Danny Boy’s NAs?
I guy named dannyboy2016 made some Pacific 1940 here is the link. I’m starting to play test them and they are the best but a bit more complicated the normal NAs.
Here’s a link http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=15874.0 -
I think you misunderstood me. You can buy other stuff with Russia. But realize you are taking a chance that it might not work. Infantry Spamming however works 100 percent of the time. GO ahead try your way. it might work and i emphasise that word “might”=maybe. But mine works every time without fail. And yes advanced artillery was a gimmick. I changed it to something usable. Really its a personal preference not an attack on the game creators. You can buy artillery with other nations but dont take chances with the Russian purchase phase.
Just as a question Swiss…. When you play, are you often Russia, or the Allies? If so, what do your German opponents typically purchase?
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I don’t think infantry spamming will work like you think Swiss. With production caps on factories now it makes it even more imperative for Russia to build tanks, also because they attack AND defend at three now too. Plus with all of the territory that you have to cover with Russia you are going to need units that can move more than one space at a time. In the old days the Russian front was only a couple of territories across, now it is going to have many more (from looking at the map it looks like the spread is something like 8 across) which will make it a lot harder to cover all routes of ingress with a stack of infantry.
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I just don’t think that will be a sound strategy in this game because the infantry can only move one space and since there is much more ground to cover in this version I don’t think that will be a good tactic anymore.
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Yes but those 10 units of infantry cost $30 and I get to roll TEN dice on offence and defense- giving me TEN chances at hitting. Ten offensive points, 20 defensive points.
If you spend those $30 on Tanks- you get 5. Only 5 dice. 15 Offensive points, 15 defensive points.
If the tank stack attacked the infantry stack- using LL
Round 1
5 Tank - 2 hits (1/2 left)
10 Inf - 3 hits (1/3 left)
Round 2
2 Tank - 1 hit
8 Inf - 1 hit (1/3 left)
For every Tank hit, the Infantry lost 2 defensive points (worth $3 IPCs) and the infantry still had 9/10 of its strength
For every Infantry hit, the Tanks lost 3 offensive points (worth $6 IPCs) and the Tanks have 4/5 of its strengthIf the infantry stack attacked the tank stack
Round 1
10 Inf - 1 hit (2/3 left)
5 Tank - 2 hit (1/2 left)
Round 2
8 Inf - 1 hit (1/3 left -> plus 2/3 on round 1 = 2 hits)
4 Tank - 2 hit
Round 3
6 Inf - 1 hit
2 Tank - 1 hit
Round 4
5 Inf - 0 hit (5/6 left)
1 Tank - 0 hit (1/2 left)
Round 5
5 Inf - 1 hit (2/3 left)
1 Tank 1 hit (1/2 plus 1/2 on Round 4)So both ways, the Infantry WIN on Low Luck!
Honestly the most effective force is a buttload of infantry supported by a few Tank/Fighter/Art - usually the ones you start with.
With Russia/Germany in every AA Game- I usually buy 1-2 Arm/Art and the rest Infantry every round. More units = more die rolls = more chances at hits. -
I don’t doubt that but with the size of the board it will be harder to have a huge stack of infantry. Larry’s commentary on the last game he was playing said that the Germans were making a three pronged attack into Russia. With only infantry you will have to spread them out because of mobility issues and that would be stacks of only 3, 3 and 4. With mechanized armor and infantry you have 2 movement points so two stacks could be better suited with infantry as cannon fodder of course. I think in the older games that because of territory it suited the Russian player to buy only infantry because with a spread of only two territories (original A&A) it made it very easy to stymie an offensive. Even in A&A Europe and anniversary there was only a spread of three territories, again making the good ol’ infantry push mechanic very effective. From the looks of this game the front can be up to EIGHT territories wide, making it that much tougher to cover ground with just a stack of troops.
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It is true that you will have to spread your Infantry thin, however- you will still have a couple large stacks with deadzones on either side. so- one on each side of the pripet marshes. Looking at Bob_A_Mickelson’s map, the Russian front is only 5-6 territories wide, not 8; and only 4-5 along the main front. Again, having a few tanks/fighters to be able to threaten more territories is a must, but the most effective army will still be majority infantry (as IRL).
After playing many games of New World Order on Triplea (possibly the best Axis and Allies map I’ve ever played!), which has a 4-8 territory main front (and 4 territory front with Finland)- the prevailing thought is you have 2-3 main stacks of troops and the rest of the front is held thinly. So- probably will be the same in AAE40.
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The way I played TripleA with the wide Russian territories was to have a weak front line and a stack behind it. The stack behind it has 2 options where it can attack (assuming the territory boarders 2 territories). With tanks you have a wider area that you can counterattack. I found having my lines looking like this worked well:
1 3T
1 5
1 5
1 3Tthe “1” represents 1 infantry. The “5” represents 5 etc. “3T” means 3 tanks. This is just an example, but each of the 5 infantry groups can counter any front line attack. The tanks can support this counter attack on the 2 outside territories. In this way all the territories can be counter attacked with 5 infantry and 3 tanks. The center territories can be counter attacked with 10 infantry and 3 tanks. This is just an example, but it shows how 14infantry and 6 tanks can cover a pretty wide area pretty efficiently.
I think the trick to the eastern front will be something like this.
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My feelings exactly, what I was referring to was with this it will be impossible to hold that much area with two stacks of 20+ troops like the older games allowed. The Russian player will also trade space for time, allowing his front line to be taken but then counter attack with a massive force and wipe out a German offensive. I think the key for Germany in this game will be to get rid of France, and as fast as possible overwhelm the Russians before the US and UK start pestering Africa and Europe. Smart purchases will win the day I think, and hopefully the days of investing in only infantry (makes the game boring and stagnant) are over.
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yes but as the other side I do something like this (Same number of Inf, Tanks):
6 inf, 3 T : 1 inf : 3 T
1 inf : 1 inf : 5 inf
1 inf : 1 inf : 5 inf
6 inf, 3 T : 1 inf : 3 TI could attack your two outer territories with my ‘stacks’ of 6 inf, 3 T and then you can only counter attack with 6 inf, 3 T each, with myself on defense. So you don’t attack my stacks because I likely win that. This will force you to retreat or stack the territory between my ‘stacks’ and your capital.
I agree, the size of the map will diminish the use of ‘mega-stacks’, but there will still be 2-3 stacks per side on the eastern front.
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Which is a realistic depiction of the war in the East. Germany invaded with three massive armies in operation Barbarossa, and then invaded South with a huge army later on at Stalingrad. I was just tired of games turning into “stack-attacks” with like 50+ infantry on each side because it bogged the game down and made it more tedious than thrilling. I’m excited that the way the game is designed now seems to respect the vastness of Russia and the unique way that it has to be attacked/defended.
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Hopefully it will not just melt down to two giant stacks facing off against one another as in the original A&A Europe.
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I know what you mean about the “two giant stacks” being boring. The problem is the game mechanics. Say Germany sends most of its troops towards Stalingrad, with only picket defenses in the center and north… what does Russia have to do? put the bulk of its troops between the giant German stack and Moscow… Its not like Russia can just ignore the big German stack. There you have it “two giant stacks.”
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