@Lazarus:
@KurtGodel7:
Lazarus seems intent on convincing us that Montgomery was at least Patton’s equal. He’s not going to be able to do that by objectively discussing the relative merits of the two generals; because that kind of discussion would clearly favor Patton
That claim is demolished by the words of Rundstedt and Blumentritt who both clearly state Montgomery and Patton were ‘the best’
It must really irk Kurt to hear the Germans so comprehensively reject his argument.
As for the chart, I have not made the claims you’ve said I’ve made. I will not allow you to sidetrack the discussion with something so petty. My only observation about it had been that it was relevant for only a very narrow time range (around two months, with Operation Goodwood occurring around the middle of that time). I’m not sure what point you’re trying to prove with this–your writing is rather opaque–but whatever your point may be, I’m not interested.
In the quote you provided, only Rundstedt put Montgomery on a level with Patton. Blumentritt did not make that claim, despite your assertion to the contrary. Even the Rundstedt portion of your quote is open to discussion. As you’ve seen fit to regurgitate your earlier quote from the German generals, I will likewise revisit the following text from the Wikipedia article about Patton:
From 1943 on, it was clear that a consensus existed in the German Army officer corps that of all Allied ground force commanders, the enemy general they feared the most was Patton. Adolf Hitler himself was impressed by Patton, reportedly calling him “that crazy cowboy general”, and “the most dangerous man [the Allies] have.”[136] Erwin Rommel credited Patton with executing “the most astonishing achievement in mobile warfare.” [137] Generaloberst Alfred Jodl, chief of staff of the German Army, stated that Patton “was the American Guderian. He was very bold and preferred large movements. He took big risks and won big successes.” Generalfeldmarschall Albert Kesselring noted that “Patton had developed tank warfare into an art, and understood how to handle tanks brilliantly in the field. I feel compelled, therefore, to compare him with Generalfeldmarschall Rommel, who likewise had mastered the art of tank warfare. Both of them had a kind of second sight in regard to this type of warfare.” Referring to the escape of the Afrika Korps Panzerarmee after the battle of El Alamein, General Fritz Bayerlein opined that “I do not think that General Patton would let us get away so easily.”[138] Oberstleutnant Horst Freiherr von Wangenheim, operations officer of the 277th Volksgrenadier Division, stated that “General Patton is the most feared general on all fronts. [His] tactics are daring and unpredictable…He is the most modern general and the best commander of [combined] armored and infantry forces.”[139] After the war, General der Infanterie Günther Blumentritt revealed that “We regarded Patton extremely highly, as the most aggressive Panzer-General of the Allies. A man of incredible initiative and lightning-like action.”[140] General der Panzertruppen Hasso von Manteuffel, who had fought both Soviet and Anglo-American tank commanders, agreed: “Patton! No doubt about this. He was a brilliant panzer army commander.”[141]
In an interview conducted for Stars and Stripes just after his capture, Field Marshal Gerd von Rundstedt summed up the predominant German view of the American general: “Patton,” Rundstedt concluded simply, “he is your best.”[4]
Incidentally, the last part of the quote casts doubt on whether even von Rundstedt saw Montgomery as Patton’s equal. If you lose the von Rundstedt portion of your quote, you’re pretty much out of luck; because there’s nothing else you can fall back on which would suggest Montgomery was at or near Patton’s level. Unlike Montgomery, Patton achieved things an ordinary general could not have. His Third Army rolled through France, until his superiors cut off his gas supply when he was in front of Metz. Patton’s advances were successful in large part because he didn’t give the Germans the chance to get back on balance. Patton also took ruthless advantage of the Allies’ advantages in air power and mobility. He had a killer’s instinct to go for the throat, which, if you can get away with it, is exactly suited to quickly eliminate enemy resistance. Patton’s recommendation that the Allies cut off all the German forces involved in the Battle of the Bulge is typical of his way of thinking, just as it was also typical for his less able and creative superiors to reject that sort of suggestion. The difference between Patton’s superiors and Patton was the difference between competence and excellence. Excellence can never be attained by those determined to be plodding, predictable, and risk-free.
