If you play NA´s i would encourage you to just do away with super-fortress (USA NA) Invulnerable SBR bomber is so incrediable unbalanced not even funny.
Axis and Allies first turns - Germany
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you position the Figs at the end (non-combat phase) of G1 in western mainly.
Oh, I see, she meant G1 non-combat phase stage forces threatening invasion G2 or thereafter. I misinterpreted her meaning… Right, in my current game I have 3-4 ftr in W.Eur, but unfortunately I played G1 buy 1AC 12inf. If I had bought 2trn instead, then I would have created the threat. Forgive me, I’m still getting used to A&A Revised; I’m not used to having significant German naval units to work with in SZ5! So many possibilities…
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2 Inf, 6 Fig, 1 Bomb is all you need sometimes. (Assuming you don’t lose a fig to Russian aggression.)
However, you can also invade Gibraltar and put your Trn/BB there giving you 4 ground units, 6 or 7 air units and a battleship for the invasion.
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2 Inf, 6 Fig, 1 Bomb is all you need sometimes. (Assuming you don’t lose a fig to Russian aggression.)
So you DID mean G1 I guess. :| Don’t know the “consensus” on R1 moves, but sub to SZ6 makes G1 SeaLion slightly more risky. Seems like many folks advocate sub to SZ2 as protection for UK naval buildup. Like you said in another post, without knowing results of R1 it is difficult to project. I just think with only 2inf a G1 invasion seems too risky.
btw, not sure it’s legal to bring Balkans ftr into G1 SeaLion.
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if you don´t move russian sub to Sz2 you risk being hit with 1 bmb, 1 fig, 1 sub vs 1 trn, 1bb on G1.
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if you don´t move russian sub to Sz2 you risk being hit with 1 bmb, 1 fig, 1 sub vs 1 trn, 1bb on G1.
Right, but why limit it to 1sub for the Germans? Even with R sub to SZ2, G1 can wipe out SZ2. Just playing devil’s advocate…
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Germany can only get in the SZ8 sub to SZ2, and the Fig in Norway, and Bomber from germany (SZ5 is 3 steps away)
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SZ5 is 3 steps away
Right. Dumb on my part not to have remembered that. :oops: If UK rolls 2 hits, giving up 1sub 1ftr is not too bad! With R sub there, losing bom is a risky proposition.
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Uhm, is it just me, or how does the Russian sub in SZ 6 stop Sea Lion? You hit it with 2 Subs, 1 Destroyer and bring the transport along with it’s payload to land in England. Then send in your fighters and bombers to England and (if staged for it) bring the BB/Trn up to SZ 8 or 7 for added firepower.
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it dont.
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Uhm, is it just me, or how does the Russian sub in SZ 6 stop Sea Lion? You hit it with 2 Subs, 1 Destroyer and bring the transport along with it’s payload to land in England. Then send in your fighters and bombers to England and (if staged for it) bring the BB/Trn up to SZ 8 or 7 for added firepower.
No, of course it doesn’t stop SeaLion. All I said was it makes it “slightly more risky”. If SeaLion fails and the sub gets a hit, then the Kriegsmarine is that much more vulnerable to counter-attack. Minor point.
I tried running G1 SeaLion on a simulator, but I don’t think the simulator works very well for this, because in order to TAKE UK Germany must save 1inf, so after 1inf lost then ftrs take the hits. Also, UK could assign an early hit to its bom to improve its overall kills.
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Where aaaarrree you ncsswitch?
I want to know how you crack the Med.
You do not expect me to give away ALL of my tricks now do you?
:mrgreen:
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I tried running G1 SeaLion on a simulator, but I don’t think the simulator works very well for this, because in order to TAKE UK Germany must save 1inf, so after 1inf lost then ftrs take the hits.Â
If you haven’t already, try the sim over at http://frood.net/aacalc/ . It has the option of re-calc’ing based on leaving a land unit to take the territory. Plus it’s a great sim anyway.
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Dan’s sim at Frood is excellent… good enough that I have provided financial support to keep him online…
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Yeah, agreed - hopefully his new gig’s in a similar line of work.
Back to sealion. I think a G1 sealion is a nice parlor trick, but be careful not to lose to many of those fighters - you may regret it later. However, I’ve been the allies in a game with a 3 transport buy for the baltic on G1. It definitely makes the UK player start the game pretty defensively.
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@ncscswitch:
You do not expect me to give away ALL of my tricks now do you?
:mrgreen:
Give meh teh trixies!
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It is obvious . . . you have come to fear Bristle Fendlestick.
Yes, it all seems so clear, and so pitiful, to me now!
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On the topic of G1 Sealion - MOST of the German fighters are out of range of London (remember they have to land), so you need to get Long Range Aircraft to get your air in range. However, that ALSO means that you CANNOT be playing Larry Harris Tournament Rules (LHTR - which by the way ARE UNOFFICIAL :-P even if they are used in the only tournament I know of with Wizards prize support . . . but I digress; LHTR delays tech from going into effect until the end of a country’s turn, so G1 Sea Lion doesn’t work under LHTR).
ANYWAYS - the cost for G1 SeaLion using Out of the Box Rules is pretty considerable. First, it is assumed that Russia did NOT fly any fighters to London (which they SHOULD have if there was a risk of Sealion). Second, it assumes that Germany does NOT blow a wad of IPCs on tech. Third, the more Germany spends on tech rolls, the less units Germany can buy (so I advocate rolling only 6 dice at most, even though that DOES give approx 33.5% chane of failure, hence almost automatic loss in those cases against all but the worst Allied players). Fourth, even if Germany succeeds, good AA rolls by UK can wipe out the German attack before it even gets started. Fifth, even if THAT does not happen, Germany’s air is badly depleted. Sixth, UK can retake on its turn with battleship support shot and E. Canada tank, while US reinforces on its turn with 2 inf 1 art 1 tank 1 bom 1 fighter, leaving Germany in poor position (usually) to secure London on G2. Seventh, Russia will be very strong for at least a few turns, as there won’t be a lot of German units moving to Germany’s east front.
So - that is - it is pretty darn risky to run G1 Sea Lion, and even if Germany DOES make it, the Allies STILL have quite a decent game going on; if UK retakes London on its turn (very possible), it’s pretty much a case of Germany losing 3-6 fighters and possibly bomber for UK’s 30 IPC and London units. Only if UK cannot retake on its turn is it really a great move for Germany, as UK stays down that 30 IPC, and the US cannot reinforce nearly as well on its turn, so Germany can possibly SECURE London on G2, assuming Germany had the IPC to buy an additional Baltic transport, so it can transport four units into UK on the next turn (hopefully six units with battleship support shot with the Mediterranean fleet).
Basically . . . G1 Sea Lion is not a solid move, IMHO. It’s riskier than King’s Pawn Gambit, and has much less of a “solid” line of play.
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Yeah, agreed - hopefully his new gig’s in a similar line of work.
Back to sealion. I think a G1 sealion is a nice parlor trick, but be careful not to lose to many of those fighters - you may regret it later. However, I’ve been the allies in a game with a 3 transport buy for the baltic on G1. It definitely makes the UK player start the game pretty defensively.
What happened to Dan? Did he get a new job or what? Is he still around?
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I tried running G1 SeaLion on a simulator, but I don’t think the simulator works very well for this, because in order to TAKE UK Germany must save 1inf, so after 1inf lost then ftrs take the hits. Â
If you haven’t already, try the sim over at http://frood.net/aacalc/ . It has the option of re-calc’ing based on leaving a land unit to take the territory. Plus it’s a great sim anyway.
Thanks, I will definitely use that.
As for SeaLion,
new paintbrush: Â UK can retake on its turn with battleship support shot and E. Canada tank,
It seems implausible that even a successful SeaLion left more than G 1inf on UK, so UK’s re-capture has only a 33% chance of failure (the odds of a hit on the UK tank). Â Worst case for Allies, US retakes UK, but then UK would be down the 30IPCs it lost to G plus the IPCs it did not earn by not owning its capital at end of UK1. Â G earns 38 IPCs by taking UK but probably has to spend those on replacing the Luftwaffe, and UK has no forces for UK2. Â I don’t know, coupled with a trannie buy, G can put real pressure on UK. Â It’s worth a try just to have some fun in a casual game.
With a bid system, let’s say Axis gets 8IPCs, but wouldn’t it be smart as Allies to specify “no new units in Baltic”, or something like that, to prevent a buffed SeaLion?
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By denying them the ability to put a piece wherever, that would defeat the purpose of the bid. That’s why CSub rules specify that no country’s capital can get sacked before they have their first turn. Granted, those are CSub rules, but that rule is also sort of a
“gentleman’s rule” around here. Besides which, an 8 bid is very rare, although it’s been known to happen…from time to time. -
After further review, I wouldn’t use my valuable gaming hours trying SeaLion even in a casual game. I used the frood.net simulator with the following units:
Attacker 2inf 6ftr 1bom (assuming tech rolls to get long-range aircraft, which would debilitate Germany anyway), Defender 2inf 1art 1arm 2ftr 1bom 1AA. Based on Low Luck, the results of 1,000 battles were 67% of the time Germany loses everything and UK is left with 1ftr. That’s horrendous. Entertaining for the Allies, maybe, but seriously stupid! :lol: Maybe everybody knew this already, but I thought it was interesting to check it out.
I’m still looking for a German strat I like…
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After further review, I wouldn’t use my valuable gaming hours trying SeaLion even in a casual game. I used the frood.net simulator with the following units:
Attacker 2inf 6ftr 1bom (assuming tech rolls to get long-range aircraft, which would debilitate Germany anyway), Defender 2inf 1art 1arm 2ftr 1bom 1AA. Based on Low Luck, the results of 1,000 battles were 67% of the time Germany loses everything and UK is left with 1ftr. That’s horrendous. Entertaining for the Allies, maybe, but seriously stupid! :lol: Maybe everybody knew this already, but I thought it was interesting to check it out.
I’m still looking for a German strat I like…
Try using 1 inf 1 TANK 6 ftr 1 bom.
A survives 71.3; D survives 25, nobody survives 3.8. I think I edited it to kill the UK bomber first. Probably.
Sealion. Rawr.
(edit) don’t forget, this battle comes AFTER rolling for tech. And if you don’t make the tech roll, bleah. Assuming you use 6 dice, you have a 66.5% chance of success. So if you start off, roll six tech dice for LRA, then have the battle, you will only win - and remember, your German air force will be shot up - is really only like 47% overall. Then you have to deal with the aftermath. Of course, you could use 8 dice, but that’s pretty much a disaster because Germany can almost certainly not secure London. On the other hand, if you use 8 dice, it could be a very sound plan for Germany - IF Germany had an extra Baltic sub. (/edit)
yey time to leave “work” . . . hohoho.
(I ask for work, I really do. But they don’t want to give me any, they’re like “rawr”. What can I do?)
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