War Plan Orange

[WILD BILL]

YG in your games when is Japan attacking, and what are they hitting when you do see a J1 attack. I ask because we see a lot of J1 attacks (J2 at the latest). Many of those J1’s include a hit on the US Hawaiian fleet. Japan also hits the Phip and the other UK stuff too. I realize that this could be just our group, but when they hit the Haw fleet it takes a couple turns for the USA to get up to speed. It also ramps up presser on the US to build Pac to stabilize things (although they would prob rather go Europe when entering the war early). With that said I think that “War Plan Orange” could work well in this situation, but it will take a bit longer to develop. Actually it could play right into WPO because when Japan does hit the US Haw fleet on J1 they may loose a dd in the attack, and have to leave another dd in sz 26 (Haw) to block out the US San Fran fleet that will die in the counter. I’ll have to give it a go the next time those pesky Japanese kill off my Haw fleet.

[Young Grasshopper]

@WILD:

YG in your games when is Japan attacking, and what are they hitting when you do see a J1 attack. I ask because we see a lot of J1 attacks (J2 at the latest). Many of those J1’s include a hit on the US Hawaiian fleet. Japan also hits the Phip and the other UK stuff too. I realize that this could be just our group, but when they hit the Haw fleet it takes a couple turns for the USA to get up to speed. It also ramps up presser on the US to build Pac to stabilize things (although they would prob rather go Europe when entering the war early). With that said I think that “War Plan Orange” could work well in this situation, but it will take a bit longer to develop. Actually it could play right into WPO because when Japan does hit the US Haw fleet on J1 they may loose a dd in the attack, and have to leave another dd in sz 26 (Haw) to block out the US San Fran fleet that will die in the counter. I’ll have to give it a go the next time those pesky Japanese kill off my Haw fleet.

Our group doesn’t hit the Hawaiian fleet J1 although I’ve seen a lot of talk around the forums for this. I personally feel that Japan can accomplish everything it wants to, even if America keeps those ships. Our group plays with my victory token house rules which makes all north African territories very valuable to the Axis, but in order to achieve that token… they need to keep America out of the war as long as possible. This has really killed J1 attacks within our group, which is fine by me because I was getting bored with the same old script, and I find that leaving the US out is more challenging (but not impossible) for the Japanese to maintain superior positioning.

[WILD BILL]

Ok that explains a lot, good to know.

[Shin-Ji]

Perhaps I’m missing something, but in my experience, Japan can pose an immediate threat to the US/Anzac fleet almost immediately under normal circumstances.  Build a few extra carriers in the first few rounds and you’re good to go.

If the USA is spending all that cash on subs, how are they keeping their fleet alive?  Japan can simply ignore the subs and steamroll the main fleet.  Once the money islands are taken, Japan hardly even needs transports anymore.

[simon33]

ANZAC can only reach Java the next turn. No other money island.

[WILD BILL]

@simon33:

ANZAC can only reach Java the next turn. No other money island.

Even if you trade Java a couple times Anz is doing its job of forcing the Japanese to expose ground units and transports (something that Japan doesn’t want to do). The allies are looking to trade ships to force the Japanese to build more boats and less ground for Asia.

sz54 is a great launch point for the allies, and building an IC on Queensland at some point gives the Anz much better mobility. From sz 54 you can reach all the money islands, Malaya and even the Phil (although Phil is prob where the Japanese fleet will be sitting with air cover). You may even get the Japanese to picket block certain sz’s with those valuable dd’s so US can pick em off.

[simon33]

That option of building an IC on Queensland is one I’ve never done nor had done in a game I was playing IIRC. I’d always rather upgrade an inf or two to a fighter or DD (or CV) with the money. It’s rare that ANZAC are making 30IPC per turn or enough that the IC becomes a good use of resources and when it does, it is sometimes better placed on Saudia Arabia or FIC.

[Charles de Gaulle]

Ok, so a while ago Italy became upsetting for me after Taranto…now Japan is upsetting me.  I tried this strategy as the US and succeeded. My opponents got wise. Now whenever I play as Japan I get mowed over by this strategy :cry:  now we need a “How to beat Plan Orange” guide.  Seriously.

P.S. The key to this strategy as the U.S. is to simply place a submarine or more in each Japanese convoy zone (in a standard game there will be 10); just work out the details of getting there and Japan is going to be losing ground in Asia very soon because they either have to build a ton of destroyers, or build a few destroyers(only taking out your subs in big zones like 6 and 19), or totally ignore which is admitting defeat. Good luck Japan.

[simon33]

@Charles:

Ok, so a while ago Italy became upsetting for me after Taranto…now Japan is upsetting me.  I tried this strategy as the US and succeeded. My opponents got wise. Now whenever I play as Japan I get mowed over by this strategy :cry:  now we need a “How to beat Plan Orange” guide.  Seriously.

Here’s what I might try:

• Take Guam.
  Base one DD + scrambling fighters off Philippines, Guam and Japan. That only leaves two holes for the Asian coast, SZ18 + SZ36. The latter is a long way around for the US to go. Basing a fleet in SZ18 can plug the other hole. You need to pick off the UK and/or ANZACs if they come through the bottom though.

The above won’t work if Japan is already being pushed back significantly.

[simon33]

Obviously, you don’t put up a guard that is too weak. Better to consolidate.

Your planes seem to be coming off a CV - the strat bomber is that launching from Carolines or Wake and landing on Dutch New Guinea? What’s to stop you from hitting the US fleet as Japan?

But if there’s only subs coming in, a DD + scrambling fighters can be an effective blocker.

[Charles de Gaulle]

@ShadowHAwk:

@Charles:

Ok, so a while ago Italy became upsetting for me after Taranto…now Japan is upsetting me.  I tried this strategy as the US and succeeded. My opponents got wise. Now whenever I play as Japan I get mowed over by this strategy :cry:  now we need a “How to beat Plan Orange” guide.  Seriously.

P.S. The key to this strategy as the U.S. is to simply place a submarine or more in each Japanese convoy zone (in a standard game there will be 10); just work out the details of getting there and Japan is going to be losing ground in Asia very soon because they either have to build a ton of destroyers, or build a few destroyers(only taking out your subs in big zones like 6 and 19), or totally ignore which is admitting defeat. Good luck Japan.

Maby play the standard 2nd edition rules without a bid so the allies need to devide their attention a bit more.
Good to see that the allies are becomming better at dealing with the axis.

But I never use bids!
@simon33:

@Charles:

Ok, so a while ago Italy became upsetting for me after Taranto…now Japan is upsetting me.  I tried this strategy as the US and succeeded. My opponents got wise. Now whenever I play as Japan I get mowed over by this strategy :cry:  now we need a “How to beat Plan Orange” guide.  Seriously.

Here’s what I might try:

• Take Guam.
  Base one DD + scrambling fighters off Philippines, Guam and Japan. That only leaves two holes for the Asian coast, SZ18 + SZ36. The latter is a long way around for the US to go. Basing a fleet in SZ18 can plug the other hole. You need to pick off the UK and/or ANZACs if they come through the bottom though.

The above won’t work if Japan is already being pushed back significantly.

If I’m the U.S. and Japan does this, first thing I’m going to do is say “Yay! My subs forced 3 destroyers and 9 fighters to sit around and do nothing!” Now that’s before I even get a chance to counter it…