German buys turn one

[squirecam]

@rjclayton:

placement was 1ac baltic (how many fighters land here, if any)
4 inf 3 art GER.

• how many fighters are in WEU?

No. AC+ subs/transports. Say 1 sub 2 transports but it could be 3 transports or 2s/1t. Multiple choices here.
Air was already noted to be in WE. (You could also say the Bomber was in Lybia, but it could reach any sz anyway)

[rjclayton]

How many fighters does Germany have left?

[squirecam]

@rjclayton:

How many fighters does Germany have left?

all of them

[DarthMaximus]

@squirecam:

@DarthMaximus:

@Imperious:

G1 buy with belo/WR opening no bid. Baltic CV, 3art, 4inf (this is 1 less unit than the 8inf buy but increase your offensive punch from 8 to 13).

Yes this is what i see as a good opening build. I consider this the safe opening purchase

I will present each nations potential purchases into 3 catagories of risk assesment from safe to aggressive and illustrate each opening with pictures and explaination as to the philosophy. I want to catalog why some of these plans have great risk and why. But i wll also address the potential rewards of the various plans in spite of these risks so players can “see” what the objective is.

Are you going to start with Russia’s options then vs. Axis bid placements?
B/c I think the Wrus-Belo might be the weakest opening vs. the other options Russia can do:

#1 - Wrus only
#2 - Wrus and Belo
#3 - Wrus and Ukr
#4 - Wrus and Ukr strafe

Also, I think an agressive Russian player will eat Germany alive if they go AC and only place 7 units (4 inf, 3 rt) on G1.

Germany has more units on the eastern front at the start of the game than USSR. German units have advantages also in air, art, and armor.

USSR has an income of 24. German buy - AC = 24.

I dont see how you can say USSR “eats Germany alive” when they spent the same # of IPC on ground troops as USSR, and Germany already outnumbered them.

Supply lines and Wrus.
Cauc - 1 space to Ukr or Wrus
Ger and SE - 2 spaces to Ukr, 3 spaces to Wrus.

Because Rt can only move 1 space.  Russia has the potential to attack AND hold
Ukr as early as R2.

24 to 24 is great if you want to maintain the status quo, but in order to kill 24 IPC of units you need 32 and you need them at the front lines.

I also perfer to hit Ukr on R1 which may change things, but if Germany puts any money towards ships that is a green light for Russia to go after Germany’s eastern boarders.  So now Germany must use planes to trade, which means your Allied fleet is safe doesn’t need to worry about an attack on G2 or later.

[jsp4563]

@squirecam:

No. AC+ subs/transports. Say 1 sub 2 transports but it could be 3 transports or 2s/1t. Multiple choices here.
Air was already noted to be in WE. (You could also say the Bomber was in Lybia, but it could reach any sz anyway)

That’s the whole point.  You can’t be vauge, since UK goes after germany, your purchase would be known, and the counter would be taylored to fit that.  So give me your exact purchase and air force disposition.

[squirecam]

@DarthMaximus:

@squirecam:

@DarthMaximus:

@Imperious:

G1 buy with belo/WR opening no bid. Baltic CV, 3art, 4inf (this is 1 less unit than the 8inf buy but increase your offensive punch from 8 to 13).

Yes this is what i see as a good opening build. I consider this the safe opening purchase

I will present each nations potential purchases into 3 catagories of risk assesment from safe to aggressive and illustrate each opening with pictures and explaination as to the philosophy. I want to catalog why some of these plans have great risk and why. But i wll also address the potential rewards of the various plans in spite of these risks so players can “see” what the objective is.

Are you going to start with Russia’s options then vs. Axis bid placements?
B/c I think the Wrus-Belo might be the weakest opening vs. the other options Russia can do:

#1 - Wrus only
#2 - Wrus and Belo
#3 - Wrus and Ukr
#4 - Wrus and Ukr strafe

Also, I think an agressive Russian player will eat Germany alive if they go AC and only place 7 units (4 inf, 3 rt) on G1.

Germany has more units on the eastern front at the start of the game than USSR. German units have advantages also in air, art, and armor.

USSR has an income of 24. German buy - AC = 24.

I dont see how you can say USSR “eats Germany alive” when they spent the same # of IPC on ground troops as USSR, and Germany already outnumbered them.

24 to 24 is great if you want to maintain the status quo…

Exactly. Germany maintains the norway/karelia/EE/Balkan IPC (giving up or trading belo, WR and possibly UKR. Germany attempts to make this up in Africa and reducing the other allies shipping.

[squirecam]

@jsp4563:

@squirecam:

No. AC+ subs/transports. Say 1 sub 2 transports but it could be 3 transports or 2s/1t. Multiple choices here.
Air was already noted to be in WE. (You could also say the Bomber was in Lybia, but it could reach any sz anyway)

That’s the whole point.  You can’t be vauge, since UK goes after germany, your purchase would be known, and the counter would be taylored to fit that.  So give me your exact purchase and air force disposition.

Ive given it to you. AC sub 2 transports. med fleet at GB. All air in WE. Whats the counter?

Here’s the original thread I was referring to.

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=7383.75

[Guest]

@jsp4563:

Channel Dash-Waste of a fleet, the UK & US airforces will make mince meat out of it before you can get to the med.

JSP, I’m surprised you would bring this up again when you were so thoroughly discredited before.  It’s kind of silly for you to keep making this claim when you have already demonstrated that you can’t back it up.

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=8335.0

G2 fleet unification in SZ7-I have yet to have an opponent pull this off.  As the allied player I can see it coming and no allied player worth his salt would allow it (IMHO) and it is easily countered.

Ok, find better players then.  It was shown in that thread that the counters aren’t easy and that a good player can profitably unite the fleets.

Don’t talk the junk when you don’t have the skills.

Thanks

[jsp4563]

Assuming the best for germany (no fighter sub losses)…6fgt, 1bmb Western. 1CV, 1DD, 3 subs, 3tp sz5. 1BB, 1SS, 1tp sz13.

UK:
1BB, 2tp>sz7 (1tnk to UK from Canada)
Build 1DD sz6
Build 1CV sz7 (plus 2fgt from UK)

US:
1DD, 2tp sz10>sz12 Algerian Landing
1fgt, 1bmb US>UK
1DD sz20>sz18
1BB, 1TP sz55>sz20
1fgt Hawaii>E. Canada
1fgt W. US>sz10
Build 1CV, 1fgt, 1tp sz10

Russia:
1SS sz2>sz7

[jsp4563]

@CrazyStraw:

@jsp4563:

Channel Dash-Waste of a fleet, the UK & US airforces will make mince meat out of it before you can get to the med.

JSP, I’m surprised you would bring this up again when you were so thoroughly discredited before.  It’s kind of silly for you to keep making this claim when you have already demonstrated that you can’t back it up.

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=8335.0

G2 fleet unification in SZ7-I have yet to have an opponent pull this off.  As the allied player I can see it coming and no allied player worth his salt would allow it (IMHO) and it is easily countered.

Ok, find better players then.  It was shown in that thread that the counters aren’t easy and that a good player can profitably unite the fleets.

Don’t talk the junk when you don’t have the skills.

Thanks

Care to put your money where your mouth is, or are you all talk and no walk.

[squirecam]

@jsp4563:

Assuming the best for germany (no fighter sub losses)…6fgt, 1bmb Western. 1CV, 1DD, 3 subs, 3tp sz5. 1BB, 1SS, 1tp sz13.

UK:
1BB, 2tp>sz7 (1tnk to UK from Canada)
Build 1DD sz6
Build 1CV sz7 (plus 2fgt from UK)

US:
1DD, 2tp sz10>sz12 Algerian Landing
1fgt, 1bmb US>UK
1DD sz20>sz18
1BB, 1TP sz55>sz20
1fgt Hawaii>E. Canada
1fgt W. US>sz10
Build 1CV, 1fgt, 1tp sz10

Russia:
1SS sz2>sz7

Congrats, you’ve stopped a merge. You’ve also just lost London.

[Guest]

Care to put your money where your mouth is, or are you all talk and no walk.

I talk a lot, but I’m better with the walk.

In your case, however, you can’t talk, so I know you can’t walk.

You had a chance in the other thread to demonstrate your knowledge; I’m still waiting for that to happen.

---

Man, we need some sound effects in here, old-west-saloon style.  Maybe tumbleweeds, player piano…

Emoticons like :mrgreen: just don’t give trash-talk the right feel for this kind of thing.

[Guest]

@squirecam:

Congrats, you’ve stopped a merge.

Squire, that’s not fair!  You didn’t say he had to keep his capital.  That wasn’t part of the debate.

He was showing that he could stop the MERGE.  Who needs London if you have stopped the merge?

[cyan]

@CrazyStraw:

@squirecam:

Congrats, you’ve stopped a merge.

Squire, that’s not fair!  You didn’t say he had to keep his capital.  That wasn’t part of the debate.

He was showing that he could stop the MERGE.  Who needs London if you have stopped the merge?

sacrasim i hope. …… right? stopping the merge is suppose to stop the germans fprm getting london.

[squirecam]

@cyan:

@CrazyStraw:

@squirecam:

Congrats, you’ve stopped a merge.

Squire, that’s not fair!  You didn’t say he had to keep his capital.  That wasn’t part of the debate.

He was showing that he could stop the MERGE.  Who needs London if you have stopped the merge?

sacrasim i hope. …… right? stopping the merge is suppose to stop the germans fprm getting london.

Dont worry, I’m pretty sure it was sarcasm.

I should know this, being a sarcastic a-hole myself. :)

Squirecam

[cyan]

@squirecam:

Dont worry, I’m pretty sure it was sarcasm.

I should know this, being a sarcastic a-hole myself. :)

Squirecam

HOw do i know your not being sarcasstic now.  :wink:  :lol:

[jsp4563]

@squirecam:

Congrats, you’ve stopped a merge. You’ve also just lost London.

Haaaa……reminds me of the “Kobiyashi Maru” test where Kirk changes the parameters of the test in order to win.  :-D

In any case, your new paradigm is easily fixed with a diversion of 1tp with 1tnk, 1inf from US>UK in sz8, Russian sub to sz12.  But your buy of all Navy for the Baltic would have left you in a very percarious situation on the Eastern front and to get all those air forces in Western would have meant forgoing an attack on Egypt and the UK med destroyer.

Let’s put it to the test. Up for a game?

[squirecam]

@jsp4563:

@squirecam:

Congrats, you’ve stopped a merge. You’ve also just lost London.

Haaaa……reminds me of the “Kobiyashi Maru” test where Kirk changes the parameters of the test in order to win.  :-D

In any case, your new paradigm is easily fixed with a diversion of 1tp with 1tnk, 1inf from US>UK in sz8, Russian sub to sz12.  But your buy of all Navy for the Baltic would have left you in a very percarious situation on the Eastern front and to get all those air forces in Western would have meant forgoing an attack on Egypt and the UK med destroyer.

Let’s put it to the test. Up for a game?

First, if you lose your capital, I’d say yes it was a failure. Not changing the test parameters at all. You cannot honestly believe a “block” that costs you a game is viable??

Second, you now have 3 Inf 3 Arm Art, 2 bombers and a fighter. Thats a defense of 23 + aa
Germany has 3 Inf + 3arm + air(1 shot down by aa). That’s 3+9+22 = 31.

London is still lost.

Of course, since you changed your moves, I could do the same. I simply build AC+3 transports and have 4 Inf + 4 armor. Now its 35 vs 23. Even better odds.

Third, I (never included, just for this purpose) my bid units, so that can take care of Egypt. Which is why I mentioned the Bomber in Lybia, which can attack London and still land.

But let me end this now. You will say that instead, you bring 2 transports to London. Fine, Now you cannot block me, and I therefore attack your fleet and then merge.

Fourth, USSR wont trouble me as I have UK’s $30 to spend. Added with the 40-50 IPC I have, and now I’m looking at 15 tanks or so…

Fifth, I will be at Greg’s Spring Gathering. I plan on being there all day and  playing A&A so feel free to ask me then.

[squirecam]

@cyan:

@squirecam:

Dont worry, I’m pretty sure it was sarcasm.

I should know this, being a sarcastic a-hole myself. :)

Squirecam

HOw do i know your not being sarcasstic now.  :wink:  :lol:

touche

[jsp4563]

@squirecam:

@jsp4563:

@squirecam:

Congrats, you’ve stopped a merge. You’ve also just lost London.

Haaaa……reminds me of the “Kobiyashi Maru” test where Kirk changes the parameters of the test in order to win.  :-D

In any case, your new paradigm is easily fixed with a diversion of 1tp with 1tnk, 1inf from US>UK in sz8, Russian sub to sz12.  But your buy of all Navy for the Baltic would have left you in a very percarious situation on the Eastern front and to get all those air forces in Western would have meant forgoing an attack on Egypt and the UK med destroyer.

Let’s put it to the test. Up for a game?

First, if you lose your capital, I’d say yes it was a failure. Not changing the test parameters at all. You cannot honestly believe a “block” that costs you a game is viable??

Second, you now have 3 Inf 3 Arm Art, 2 bombers and a fighter. Thats a defense of 23 + aa
Germany has 3 Inf + 3arm + air(1 shot down by aa). That’s 3+9+22 = 31.

London is still lost.

Of course, since you changed your moves, I could do the same. I simply build AC+3 transports and have 4 Inf + 4 armor. Now its 35 vs 23. Even better odds.

Third, I (never included, just for this purpose) my bid units, so that can take care of Egypt. Which is why I mentioned the Bomber in Lybia, which can attack London and still land.

But let me end this now. You will say that instead, you bring 2 transports to London. Fine, Now you cannot block me, and I therefore attack your fleet and then merge.

Fourth, USSR wont trouble me as I have UK’s $30 to spend. Added with the 40-50 IPC I have, and now I’m looking at 15 tanks or so…

Fifth, I will be at Greg’s Spring Gathering. I plan on being there all day and  playing A&A so feel free to ask me then.

Let’s play a game and see if you can pull it off.