@i:
i dont see the need for an axis bid it seems the axis always win to me.
Maybe that is because your age is XXII :roll:
The “common” bid for axis is 8-9 ipc.
Strategic bombing your way to a win
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On that I will most heartedly agree with you.
The other thing I hate about LL is that in AAR the axis get SUCH an advantage it isn’t even remotely funny. Not impossible to over come, but you may as well just give up the Atlantic period, for a few rounds. Save your money, then dump a large fleet in the water at the same time.
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Because of the way LL works with SBRs, in a LL game it is a COMPLETELY VIABLE STRATEGY for the Allies to SBR Germany into oblivion.
The Allies can never lose a BOM.
USA trades income with Germany 1 for 1 AT WORST, usually about 5 German to 4 American ratio. So USA just gets 7 BOM (first 3 builds 2 BOM each) and SBRs Germany for $16 IPC per round.
UK also buys 2 BOM and SBR’s Germany for another $10 a turn, losing about $8 of their own in the process.So Germany is now playing with an income that is reduced by $26, so they only get about $15 to $20 to spend to face off against Russia that is getting $20 to $30
And the balance of US and UK money (about $25 US, $15 UK) goes into TRN fleet and amphib units.GERMANY DIES A CERTAIN DEATH in AAR/LL
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Not that the game needs to be changed, but what if you just got rid of SBR and made Bombers a little cheaper (or attack on a 5)?
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Bombers are FINE in ADS. It is that fracked up Low Luck crap that causes the problem… NOT the Bombers.
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I just feel that bombers are too expensive for what they do. The game might be more interesting if they were a better value and people would buy more of them. Well, it’d be different anyway.
Or you could add a new unit, a fighter/bomber. Same range as a fighter, same attack/defence as a bomber, (or 4/2 or something like that).
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@froodster:
I just feel that bombers are too expensive for what they do. The game might be more interesting if they were a better value and people would buy more of them. Well, it’d be different anyway.
Or you could add a new unit, a fighter/bomber. Same range as a fighter, same attack/defence as a bomber, (or 4/2 or something like that).
Everything but infantry is overpriced in one way or another.
If everything were completely cost effective, there would be less element of decision making in the game. As it is, you must decide which costs inefficiencies you will live with.
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5 Bombers, Switch, not 7 American Bombers.
Bomber in LL does 3.5 IPC in damage and takes 2.5 IPC in damage in return. So for two bombers your result is 7 IPC in damage given and 5 IPC in damage taken. 5 to 7 ratio in your favor.
5 * 3.5 = 17.5 Germany is 10, S. Europe is 6, 16 max damage you can deal. The extra bombers are superfulous.
Now, I have put together a Russian Bomber and 2 British bombers. I have 8 Bombers total for 28 IPC in damage PER ROUND to Germany. Germany has Africa (most of it, England has the two German territories, Madagascar and FWA) so after the SBRs Germany’s hovering around 1 IPC for every 1.4 IPC Russia has.
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5 Bombers, Switch, not 7 American Bombers.
Bomber in LL does 3.5 IPC in damage and takes 2.5 IPC in damage in return. So for two bombers your result is 7 IPC in damage given and 5 IPC in damage taken. 5 to 7 ratio in your favor.
5 * 3.5 = 17.5 Germany is 10, S. Europe is 6, 16 max damage you can deal. The extra bombers are superfulous.
Now, I have put together a Russian Bomber and 2 British bombers. I have 8 Bombers total for 28 IPC in damage PER ROUND to Germany. Germany has Africa (most of it, England has the two German territories, Madagascar and FWA) so after the SBRs Germany’s hovering around 1 IPC for every 1.4 IPC Russia has.
Germany will not be sitting on its hands while it waits for the Allies to build all these bombers.
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Germany won’t get any further then it normally does while the Allies builds these bombers. We’re only talking 2 turns. How much of an advantage can you actually get, considering it takes a few turns to even start to make Russia fall back.
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Germany won’t get any further then it normally does while the Allies builds these bombers. We’re only talking 2 turns. How much of an advantage can you actually get, considering it takes a few turns to even start to make Russia fall back.
Hey, build bombers by all means.
I LIKE BOMBERS
WEE!
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Well for one thing, that BOM build takes resources, and that means resources not spent on Navy, or land units being transported to Africa.
So the “gain” that Germany is going to make is compensating for the loss of income to SBR by padding their income using Africa. At the same time, they also weaken the Birts so that SBR’s are about all they can accomplish due to lack of funds. Loss of Africa also effectively shields Southern form SBR (unless you are flying in from Caucuses, which requires another round lost to get the BOMs into position, and leaves them potentially vulnerable.
Lastly, it will allow Germany to sweep the North Atlantic free of shipping. Yes, the Kreigsmarine will die accomplishing that, and perhaps a few Luftwaffe units as well… but cleared oceans means 100% security for Germany in the West, South and North. That leaves the entire Whermact with ONE target… Russia.
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Yes, but you more then make up for it later when Germany’s not earning much of anything and you are omnipotently taking anything you want back. Also, those bombers are still combat units you can use for engagements instead.
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Damage from SBR is limited, and the more territories Germany gains (Africa, central Europe) the more immune they are to those SBR’s.
And the AA fire WILL take a toll on those BOM’s over time, and in a couple of turns of German and Japan advance, UK can;t afford to even replace a BOM with a single turn of revenue…
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Once America gets 5 bombers going, England doesn’t have to bomb anymore.
However, the other benefit is that Germany and Japan have diverted huge resources to Africa to keep Germany over the 20 IPC mark each round after bombing, while America just puts her 24 IPC of units into Africa (8 infantry) and does 15-18 IPC damage to Germany (12-15 in return.)
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If you’re going to conduct an SBR campaign against Germany, it’s best to have both the US and UK involved because it doubles the maximum damage that can be inflicted from $16 to $32.
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I think it can work, but it’s not a good strategy for one reason: it is highly volatile. You might get lucky and not lose any bombers to AA fire for 4-5 rounds, which is very bad for Germany. Or you might get unlucky and lose more bombers than expected. Strategy that relies on luck is not really strategy, it’s only crossing your fingers before you roll the dice.
For each Bomber that AA shoots down, you lose the same amount in IPCs as if Germany had conducted 4 or 5 successful SBRs against UK or US. And Germany does this without committing any resources. Also, it’s an active unit that is destroyed, which is more valuable than IPCs, which represent units that will only be active in 2 rounds or so. Remember that you have to turn IPCs into units before they do you any good.
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You can’t afford 5 bombers with England. That’s the only problem.
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Switch, the allies dont need to build much navy, only trn. The bombers are too much, that is why i like the LL rules for them.
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Final result:
With Germany reduced to 0-3 IPC a round, the Axis powers, with Moscow in hand, capitulate.
End Bomber Count:
Russia: 1 bomber (sacrificed Moscow for it.)
England: 3 bombers
America: 5 bombersTotal SBR: 31.5 IPC a round (Russia was especially nice since you cannot subtract 3 IPC in damage when you don’t collect any money!)
Allied Fleet:
3 Battleships, 20 Transports, 2 Aircraft Carriers, 4 Fighters
Meanwhile, America was still plenty capable of producing 6 infnatry, 1 artillery, 1 armor per round for Europe.
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Actually, there is something in the LL SBR rules about not being able to pay your share of the damage… your BOM dies.
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