Thank you for taking the time to explain.
AARHE: Rule files
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Yes LITE is a stand alone way of giving an “easy bake” treatment from AARHE for people who don’t like reading.
WE had originally wanted to call it: AARHE: for dummies.
I may have steered you wrong by asking you to read it and then playing with AARHE because the rules are a bit different admittedly.
AARHE: Lite is like a ice cream bar made with “half the fat and zero calories”
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Evening!
Based on past development, how long do you expect before you publish a stable version of AARHE 4.0? Where can we follow the discussion on it’s development?
Several of us were ready to jump in and start play testing but got some push back on waiting until it was “stable”.
I noticed that “Combat Reinforcement” got taken out of the mix (e.g., ver 4.0 dated 20080209).
The Naval Combat Sequence (e.g., specifically DAS) seemed to be our biggest hurdle, but it appears to have disappeared as well.
What kind of feedback would you like from us down here in the trenches trying to learn this? It’s a big fire hose at the moment, but looks really promising.
Enjoy the day!
- Bierwagen
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Just play either the 1939 version as it stands right now, or use your original map for revised and use the basic rules.
Play the game with no diplomacy rules until you got every down pat.
I have like 8 games of 1939 in and it plays like a dream.
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Thanks IL!
A quick question on the Lite & 4.0 versions.
1) Do transports still have a dog in the fight? There seems to be a conflict with 1 defense listed on the unit tables and “When neither side has units to hit each other (both side has only Submarines or both side has only Transports) both sides must retreat or break-off.”
I always thought it kind of silly that transports get an attack. I don’t remember too many instances of “ramming speed” in WWII. You might be able to stretch an air defense roll out of them.
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1939 scares me away – too many pieces to try and collect. I’m limited to basic and revised edition. Not sure how to squeeze a set of French, Chinese, and whoever else I need out of that.
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A quick question on the Lite & 4.0 versions.
1) Do transports still have a dog in the fight? There seems to be a conflict with 1 defense listed on the unit tables and “When neither side has units to hit each other (both side has only Submarines or both side has only Transports) both sides must retreat or break-off.”
I always thought it kind of silly that transports get an attack. I don’t remember too many instances of “ramming speed” in WWII. You might be able to stretch an air defense roll out of them.
Transports defend at O, they cannot be used for fodder and are the last units allocated for combat loses. If you bring them to attack they don’t participate. However, the defender can elect to retreat in part of whole his force at any time declared before the attacker declares retreat intentions.
The one defense is in cases where they are alone defending against subs, but as i said after a round they can retreat.
Transports are to be considered like a glass window pane in a mine field
ON 1939 version use American pieces for france because france is toast within 1-3 turns. It has never lasted past 2 turns, but i think its possible mathematically to last 3 turns
For Italy you can use old Milton Bradley pieces for Germany or japan ( yellow)…for poland or neutrals you use the nations pieces that controls the neutral… so you dont need any special pieces.
I really insist you play 1939. you will be hooked big time.
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@Imperious:
The one defense is in cases where they are alone defending against subs, but as i said after a round they can retreat.
Actually I don’t recall discussion on reinstating a 1 defense for Transports.
Tracing back the log of files I see this is a typo introduced in August 2007 when we first created the colour rulebook.If no new arguments I’ll fix that up (back to 0) for both AARHE and AARHE:Lite.
I’m using the following source as my touchstone:
http://home.exetel.com.au/cometo/aarhe/Yep the latest files are kept there.
I worked through the AARHE DEMO (e.g., turn 1 through G1 & J1), but it doesn’t cover all the angles required to understand the nuances of combat. Are there other DEMO’s and examples that I’ve missed in the forums that can walk me through some of this?
Don’t worry about the demo I took the effort to write…outdated already hehe.
Based on past development, how long do you expect before you publish a stable version of AARHE 4.0? Where can we follow the discussion on it’s development?
Several of us were ready to jump in and start play testing but got some push back on waiting until it was “stable”.AARHE features like defender retreat is nice but it also means its harder to playtest online since enemy gets to do things during your turn.
We’ve stopped changing things now.
But need more feedback from players like you guys before we could say its “stable”.Or you and your friends could play AARHE:Lite first.
Actually its probably better to play 2-3 games of Lite first anyway.What kind of feedback would you like from us down here in the trenches trying to learn this? It’s a big fire hose at the moment, but looks really promising.
Thanks! We think its promising too.
All kinds of feedback are welcomed.Actually we have no feedback for the late major rule change. The convoy raid system.
Did Germany or Russia get hurt by it in your games? -
Morning!
Jumped online this morning to toss out a fist full of questions – only to find a newly published draft of AARHE 4.0 (20080503) in:
http://home.exetel.com.au/cometo/aarhe/maps/
I’m very excited to dive into it, but am a little frustrated with version control atm. Any chance you can make a section of “stuff that was changed since last pub, dated yyy-mmm-dd”. Even if it is just “format changes only”. I see you all bantering back and forth in the forums, but it’s difficult to determine what got implemented and what was just a good idea. Or maybe publish a small readme file in the directory that contains this information like they do with software.
Same with the Lite version. A date stamp or version would be deeply appreciated.
We’ve got 15-18 people here in San Antonio that I’m trying to introduce this to. I hoping we can help wring out the rules – make them Aggie proof. However, it gets really confusing trying to keep everyone on the same sheet of music without version control.
Thanks again for the great effort. I’m really enjoying all the new rules and tactical/strategic implications.
Enjoy the day!
- Bierwagen
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The “Wolf Pack” section in both Lite & 4.0 requires some text to clarify that a minimum of two SS are needed before they get the bonus. See the discussion and answers from IL & Tekkyy in:
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=6902.msg301594#msg301594
- Bierwagen
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Can US/UK ATK former Russian territory (e.g., Persia -> Caucasus) before Russia falls?
If they could and do manage to kill all the Axis in it before Russia falls does “Stalinist Xenophobia” mean they can’t liberate it and return it to Russia – because now it would be Russian again?
Should “Stalinist Xenophobia” be updated to say "Before the axis captures the Soviet capital Moscow, US and UK may not move units into or fly air units over Soviet [or former Soviet] territories.
- Bierwagen
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Does Russia get a free Tech & Diplomacy roll on the Special opening round?
- Bierwagen
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Tech question:
“When only one side has jet air units at the beginning of combat cycle, jet air units have selective attack (except for Bomber). All targets are selected before rolling.”
Does this mean that jets can ignore and bypass air combat in order to roll on ARM – or does the selective targeting refer to attacking BMR vs FTR during air combat?
A bit confusing as to what the intent is. I would have thought jets would still be locked in air combat until a side has achieved air superiority. Jet power would allow me to ignore the FTR and go straight for the BMR if I wanted to.
- Bierwagen
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Since BMRs don’t get an attack during the Air Combat phase and are strictly there as cannon fodder – can I use them on ground targets if my FTRs achieve Air Superiority this cycle?
Or do they have to wait until the next round of combat?
It just seems that if a unit doesn’t roll (e.g., combat), it should be allowed. I can get my head around extra FTRs not being allowed to roll as they were used to attain Air Superiority.
Only reason I could think of not allowing this would be for simplification purposes.
Just thinking out loud.
- Bierwagen
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I will answer this when i get back from Badminton practice. You have lots of questions it appears. :-D
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The “Wolf Pack” section in both Lite & 4.0 requires some text to clarify that a minimum of two SS are needed before they get the bonus. See the discussion and answers from IL & Tekkyy in:
You gain the +1 attack for each U-boat that exceeds total ASW units even by one. So you have 4 subs and he has 2 cruisers and 1 destroyer, then you got one sub with +1.
Also, if their are no ASW units at all you gain a +1 for each sub attacking.
Since BMRs don’t get an attack during the Air Combat phase and are strictly there as cannon fodder – can I use them on ground targets if my FTRs achieve Air Superiority this cycle?
It depends on the mission employed. If the Bomber is used to attack land targets then all air combat is completed separately, but concurrently with land combat. The bomber still defends at 1, while Dive bombers defend at 2. Once you got a situation where the air combat leads to one side either being destroyed or retreated, the remaining planes can fire at land targets starting on that new round.
If your bringing in bombers to do SBR this air combat and air defense is only one roll, following the bombers drop payload and return home.
Or do they have to wait until the next round of combat?
Its possible it can be just one round if one side is destroyed or retreats, the following round the air units can attack land.
It just seems that if a unit doesn’t roll (e.g., combat), it should be allowed. I can get my head around extra FTRs not being allowed to roll as they were used to attain Air Superiority.
IT DOES roll the bomber is in the sky trying to get to target, but the enemy is engaging them with interceptors so they are disrupted and cannot drop ordinance, but like any plane they are defending with machine gunners while trying to maintain heading and formation. Classic aerial dogfights.
Tech question:
“When only one side has jet air units at the beginning of combat cycle, jet air units have selective attack (except for Bomber). All targets are selected before rolling.”
Yes the player who has this advantage uses it as soon he builds Jet fighters and send them into air combat. He picks the target when he hits, so bombers are gonna need lots of protection to minimize this to just one round by getting in more rolls in that first round. Jet fighters are a huge deal in this game.
Does this mean that jets can ignore and bypass air combat in order to roll on ARM – or does the selective targeting refer to attacking BMR vs FTR during air combat?
In air combat it can select which plane it will hit, On land thats still the defenders choice.
A bit confusing as to what the intent is. I would have thought jets would still be locked in air combat until a side has achieved air superiority. Jet power would allow me to ignore the FTR and go straight for the BMR if I wanted to.
No this is not true. while in air combat when a jet hits it will most likely take off a bomber. This is why Jets make excellent interceptors against SBR runs. Bombers get chewed up. IN air combat they just roll like any other air units, except as i said before the Jet that hits gets to remove any plane it wants to , when normally this is the defenders choice.
Does Russia get a free Tech & Diplomacy roll on the Special opening round?
Yes in every version of the game including 1939. All nations even neutrals like USA and Soviets get to roll, they can allocate what meager resources they have to this purpose, but it may not be the best idea. It may be better to send the money as lend lease.
Can US/UK ATK former Russian territory (e.g., Persia -> Caucasus) before Russia falls?
Not at all, They cannot attack or fly over any soviet Territory unless Germany conquers the Soviets first and they surrendered. Once this happens we consider that Stalin is dead, and a more friendly and less suspicious national body in more tolerant of western intentions.
If they could and do manage to kill all the Axis in it before Russia falls does “Stalinist Xenophobia” mean they can’t liberate it and return it to Russia – because now it would be Russian again?
They can always invade and attack any nation that Germany has already conquered in the effort to bring it back. If Germany falls and Germany took out Russia, The Americans can land and recapture Moscow or a factory in Soviet Union and the Soviet player is back in the game to help out against Japan.
Should “Stalinist Xenophobia” be updated to say "Before the axis captures the Soviet capital Moscow, US and UK may not move units into or fly air units over Soviet [or former Soviet] territories.
Yes it should say that. But it is also true that a nation is not defeated until its factories are under enemy occupation. So it should really say : western allies cannot fly over or invade original Soviet Territories until the Soviet Union has been defeated first. Original Soviet territories include the ones that are occupied by Germany at the start of the game if using the original map.
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Version control: Yeah good idea. I shall start a changelog.txt in the same direction. Btw 20080503 update is only the transport combat value.
Wolf Pack: I thought it was clear that friendly submarines can’t possibly “exceeds the number of enemy Destroyer by more than one” if there were less than 2 friendly submarines to begin with. But I can add it or rewrite the rule if you want.
Stalinist Xenophobia: Yep. That was the idea. I’ll change “Soviet territories” to read “any original Soviet territories”.
Russia special opening turn: Yep the turn is a normal full turn. So far only one exception is made as described at “Reinforcement”.
Jet, selective attack: That is correct. Air superiority rule still holds.
BMR hit land units same cycle as air superiority achieved:
aerial combat is considered parallel to land combat
hence we don’t let bombers hit land units after the aerial combat
@Bierwagen:Only reason I could think of not allowing this would be for simplification purposes.
Just thinking out loud.I guess its realistic if there is overwhelming air force so that your bombers can start the bombing straight away but I didn’t want to introduce a rule to gauge that
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@Imperious:
No this is not true.
I believe “No this is not true” is referring to Jets going to ARM before hostile air units. What you wrote afterwards agreed with what Bierwagen said as well as my intepretation. You might have confused Bierwagen hehe.
@Imperious:
Yes it should say that. But it is also true that a nation is not defeated until its factories are under enemy occupation. So it should really say : western allies cannot fly over or invade original Soviet Territories until the Soviet Union has been defeated first.
We might not need this change.
I think fall of Moscow is enough to for Soviets to change their plan. Whether Stalinst is alive, dead, politically weaken or not.Original Soviet territories include the ones that are occupied by Germany at the start of the game if using the original map.
Ah yes, once we made it to include all original Soviet territories (in game terms), plus Soivet territories (in real life terms).
Ah yes in game term “any original soviet territories” doesn’t include West Russia for example.
So we might have to explicitly include West Russia, Belorussia, and Ukraine. -
Those darn soviets! My question really revolved around the Soviet starting territories (e.g., Brown ones).
Germany had taken Caucasus and Britain had some forces sitting in Persia and wanted to help by softening up the Germans. However, Russia had not fallen yet.
We came to the conclusion that the answer would be no, because once they liberated it Caucasus it would be Russian and you wouldn’t be allowed in. So, the discussion ensued as to why Britain couldn’t do it if they didn’t invade and only wanted to kill a “few” Germans. It wasn’t like there were any Russians there to stop them?
So, I took action to ask the question. I think “Stalinist Xenophobia” says it all. … AND STAY OUT!
I also really like the rule that Lend-Lease money can only be used for material goods and not infantry – but, it’s kinda hard to keep the money separated.
More questions to follow.
- Bierwagen
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Amphibious Assault:
“Defending Infrastructure Defense performs offshore bombardment against ships rolling for offshore bombardment or enemy Transport.”
I’m hoping that this ID attack follows the logic of “Naval Combat: Hit Allocation” and APs are the last casualty to be taken – or as was postulated IDs can selective fire at the transport and kill the amphibious landing before it happens?
Allowing the IDs to sink the transports would make invading the Japanese islands more difficult than it already is.
- Bierwagen
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Docking & Diplomacy:
How do you indicate you are docked at a neutral VC vs just floating in the sea zone so you can determine
“An attack on a docked naval unit is an attack on the neutral.”
Should you just move your ship into the country? And if I do can I leave from a different SZ? This might cause me some headache down the road.
e.g., Ankara, Turkey touches SZ 15/16
Madrid, Spain touches SZ 12/13
Cape Cod, S. Africa SZ 27/28etc.
If you are docked, can enemy ships sail through adjacent SZs unimpeded?
Any insights appreciated.
- Bierwagen
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