AARHE: Phase 3: Revised NA's

[tekkyy]

Radar
Territory United Kingdom and East Canada only.

Joint Strike
Redundant by AARHE.

Commonwealth Troops
Probably not needed. in AARHE UK can now raise troops in Canada, South Africa, Australia, India, and Persia.

Mideast Oil
Need to be updated to AARHE NCM air movement. Don’t want it to be too powerful.
In Non-combat Move phase your air units landing on Anglo-Egypt, Trans-Jordon, Persia or Caucasus may move again up to half of its movement points.

Flying Boats
Too powerful. And these bombers would still need supply.
Probably match 1-to-1 with DD/CA (destroyer/cruiser).

Battlecruisers
Probably remove it. For the same reason we remove the German NA “Pocket Battleship”.

Escort Carriers
Both destroyer and cruiser. NAV instead of FTR if the optional unit NAV is selected.

Chindits
Yeah its sketchy.

Burman Road
Specifically Sinkiang, China, Manchuria, Kwangtung or French Indo-China. Need control of India.

[Imperious Leader]

Tekky you need to please update your files that are under your signature. I had 3 people make maps using your signature thinking those map files were current. They are not In every case the files under http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=8670.0 are new files with repairs.

Please update them and the ruleset thats current and email.

[tekkyy]

I don’t know what you mean. The thread in my signature does not include any maps at all.
Your thread is the one that releases maps.

But anyway I’ve included both threads in my signature now.

By the way could you…
*put a date before each URL in your thread’s first post
*change thread name to "AARHE: maps and player aids
*sticky it

[Imperious Leader]

OK fine.

[polywog]

If you don’t mind, I’d like to toss in a few ideas for the UK - feel free to use/lose any of them:

Total Mobilization:
Citizens of the UK mobilized totally for war: victory gardens, scrap drives and extreme rationing provided the UK with extra material required to sustain them. Each turn, the UK collects an additional 2 IPC’s during the collect income phase.

Flak Battleships:
Capital ships of the Royal Navy underwent aggressive refit to equip them with strong anti-air defense. Prior to combat involving UK battleships and enemy air units, each battleship may roll one die against each enemy fighter. Like a land-based AA gun, each roll of a 1 is a hit.

Naval Tradition:
Crews of the Royal Navy displayed countless feats of bravery and sacrifice in the face of disaster; trading their own lives for effective fire control and counter flooding. When any surface ship (BB, CV, DD, TRN) is hit in combat, roll 1 die. On a roll of a 6, the ship “survives” the hit and remains in combat.

[tekkyy]

Flak Battleships:
In AARHE each naval unit gets an anti-air value. Thats the number of anti-air dice it gets. (To represent different naval units having different number of flak guns.)
So we could give all UK naval units +1 anti-air value.

Naval Tradition:
Historically did UK sailers performs more self-scarfice of this kind than US or German sailers?

[Imperious Leader]

I think they are guilty of being very specific in terms of the effect they can have under a strategic level game. They would be good in a much more detailed game covering a specific aspect of the war.

Polywog:

Can you come up with something on the polesti oil fields?

Or something that would apply to a contribution made by finland, romania, hungary and bulgaria?

Tekky:

I have some new ideas…

battleships should only be preemtive unless another battleship is present. In naval combat Battleships fight each other and take hits off each other. All other ships fight each other except transports cannot be taken as loses unless no other ships are left.

If the attacker has a battleship and the defender does not, he can decide what ship he hits if he rolls a one

Now under land combat if tanks, bombers and fighters roll a one they should be able to select the defending land target.

If bombers are attacking land targets and the defender has no air support, then attacks are also preemtive. If the defender has air units then as normal they fight dogfights…

Also, i have some new ideas covering some ideas for AARHE:

Air Superiority
Air units engage on a one to one basis.  The side that has fewer air units must allocate all units to the air battle.  The side that has air superiority (more units) can decide whether his extra aircraft will participate in the air or land/sea battle.  He may also decide how to allocate his fighters or bombers for air or land/sea combat.  Thus air units may only target ground units if they have established air superiority.

+++++ now the excess planes can participate in combat, when before one enemy plane can TIE UP your bomber force.

Retreat
Attacker and defender can retreat any or all surviving units after each round of combat except units that attacked as part of an amphibious assault. Land units that attacked as part of an amphibious assault may retreat but may be targeted (free shot) for one round by all defending land units.  All retreating land units are converted into infantry. Defending land units may retreat into any friendly region that was not attacked that turn. Attacking land units may retreat into any friendly region that attacking land units originated from. Sea units may retreat into any territory not occupied by enemy units. Retreating air units may land in any territory that was friendly at the start of their turn. Attacking armor, mechanized infantry, and aircraft that have sufficient movement may pursue units that retreated.

++++ key idea is you can convert retreating units to infantry , but the penalty is the defender gets a free barrage ( look at Dieppe raid and St. Nasaire raid)

Withdrawal
Prior to the start of any battle, a defender may withdraw any land, sea, or air units that are in excess of the total number of respective attacking units.  These units can be used to withdraw into non-combat or reinforce neighboring battles (they arrive in the second round of combat).  Each type of unit (land, sea, and air) is treated separately.

++++ key difference in what we allready have is a LIMITATION on defending retreats. Thus you cant fully retreat. Some detractors of our efforts dont like the total ability of the defender to retreat. But another key idea is you can withdraw to latter use to reinforce other battles ( see below)

Example: Germany (2 infantry and 2 artillery) attacks France with (6 infantry and 3 fighters).  The Allies can withdraw up to 2 infantry and 3 fighters prior to the start of the battle.

Reinforcements
Units (except Bombers in defense) can reinforce adjacent regions that are being attacked.  Reinforcements arrive in the second round of battle.  Only units in regions that are not being attacked or units that withdrew prior to the start of another battle can be used as reinforcements.  If combat in the territory that is being reinforced is concluded in one round, the reinforcements return to their original territory.

+++++ this idea creates the value of a real campaign when the battle involves forces from adjacent territories. Models the war better.

These are new ideas being used elsewhere in my other games. All you people please take a good look at them and play test them. They work well.

[tekkyy]

You should move all that to the land combat and naval combat threads.
Don’t be shy in waking up old threads.

[polywog]

@Imperious:

Polywog:

Can you come up with something on the polesti oil fields?

Or something that would apply to a contribution made by finland, romania, hungary and bulgaria?

As an NA for Italy, et al, the polesti oilfields is a bit difficult. Romania was reluctant to “join” the axis in the first place, and certainly did not benefit strongly during the war. Obviously, the Germans benefited tremendously and Hitler placed great importance on these oilfields, dedicating a sizable force to the southern arm of Barbarosa on the chance that the Soviets might launch a counterattack in that sector.

The main contribution of the Romanians, Hungarians and Bulgarians was the filling of thin spots in the German line on the eastern front. They are usually not given mucch credit, though instead of fleeing during the huge Russian don offensives around Stalingrad, the Romanian 3rd army put up a brief but spirited defense against an overwhelming soviet armored attack. Unfortunately, in the end, they were annihilated (along with pretty much the entirety of the Italian 8th and Romanian 4th armies). Fodder. Probably not much of an NA from that one…

During the winter war, the Finns fighting up in the north got it all right: they took advantage of the terrain and weather, targeted attacks specifically against Russian supplies and managed to destroy whole soviet armored divisions piecemeal in guerrilla attacks and tactical use of artillery. Again, I’m not sure how to apply this to an Axis-minor NA, especially since Finland is using German units.

…Sorry, not much help at all. This is a tough one. :-P

[polywog]

@tekkyy:

Flak Battleships:
In AARHE each naval unit gets an anti-air value. Thats the number of anti-air dice it gets. (To represent different naval units having different number of flak guns.)
So we could give all UK naval units +1 anti-air value.

The more I think about this one, the less I think it might be specifically a UK advantage - especially when compared to some of the late war US capital ships which were essentially floating AA platforms.

[polywog]

@tekkyy:

Naval Tradition:
Historically did UK sailers performs more self-scarfice of this kind than US or German sailers?

I’m a bit embarrassed by this one, since nearly all of the examples I was going to site were from the wrong war.!  oops. :oops: I guess this one can be ditched…

[tekkyy]

@polywog:

The more I think about this one, the less I think it might be specifically a UK advantage - especially when compared to some of the late war US capital ships which were essentially floating AA platforms.

Yeah. Really it just depends on how things turn out.
There is little reason why Japanese fleet couldnt do the same (adding more flak guns to their fleet), if they wanted to.

[Imperious Leader]

I think we should just right now address the UK NA’s that were posted and edit those/ remove those

Then we can add stuff.

[tekkyy]

Yeah I’ve already commented on the UK list of NAs.
See what you think and revise your list where appropriate.

@tekkyy:

[Imperious Leader]

United Kingdom National Advantages

1. Radar
Britain’s radar alerted it to the threat of German planes crossing the channel.
UK owned antiaircraft guns in England and East Canada hit air units on a roll of 1 or 2.

2. Enigma Decoded
Working in a secret facility in Bletchley Park, Alan Turing’s cryptographers broke the codes of the Nazi Enigma machines. They could then send false messages back.
Once per game, when Germany finishes its combat move phase, but before its conduct combat phase, you may make one special move. You may move any number of your units from any one adjacent space into one friendly sea zone being attacked by Germany (Germany moving sea units to an empty sea zone does not count). Alternatively, you may move any number of your units from a sea zone being attacked by Germany into an adjacent friendly space, but you must leave at least one of your units behind. This special move otherwise follows the rules for a non-combat move. If your units survive, they remain in the space to which they were moved.

3. French Resistance
France fell quickly to the Germans. Thousands of French patriots who would otherwise have died in battle on the frontlines later rose up against the occupiers.
Once per game, if the Allies control Western Europe, you may place three of your infantry there for free during the mobilize new units phase of your turn.

4. Colonial Garrison
World War II represents the height of the United Kingdom’s colonial empire. Two decades later the Commonwealth was a shadow of its world-spanning former self.
You begin the game with one additional industrial complex in any tan territory with an income value of at least 1. (You still can’t have more than one industrial complex in a territory.)

5. The Royal Navy
Place 1 free Destroyer off the coast of Eastern Canada, Egypt, South Africa, India, Australia or UK if you own the land territory, during the Mobilize Units Phase of this turn only. You may place the destroyer even if the sea zone is enemy-occupied.
-Your destroyers cost 1IPC less.

6. Allied Resistance
France fell quickly to the Germans. Thousands of French patriots who would otherwise have died in battle on the frontlines later rose up against the occupiers.
Once per game, if the Allies control Western Europe, Eastern Europe, and/or Norway, you may place two of your infantry there for free during the mobilize new units phase of your turn.

7. Colonial Garrison
World War II represents the height of the United Kingdom’s colonial empire. Two decades later the Commonwealth was a shadow of its world-spanning former self.
You begin the game with one additional industrial complex in any tan territory with an income value of at least 1. (You still can’t have more than one industrial complex in a territory.)

8. Flying Boats
The Lend-Lease Act gave Britain PBY Catalina flying boats, which were handy because they could help spot submarines in the water.
Your bombers can add a +2 modifier for sub search.

9. Battlecruisers
The HMS Hood, an Admiral class battlecruiser, had the firepower of a battleship while still having the speed and armor of a regular cruiser.
Your battleships may move 3 spaces.

+++++ why do you want to remove it? In the German case it was removed to get the number under 15

10.Chindits
One British infantry in Asia can be allocated as Chindits per turn. These units attack at 2 and defend at 2 and have a unique movement of 4 spaces. They can move 2 spaces in the combat movement phase and fight and also move two additional spaces in non-combat. They may even move thru themy positions and attack interior units and sabatoge them with the ability to move back to your own lines during NCM.

11. Burma Road
UK can send 3 IPC of aid per turn resulting in the creation of one infantry in china. The UK player must have control of India plus at least one of the following must be controlled for the allies: Sinkiang,China, Manchuria,Kwangtung, or French Indo-China.

ok this is updated list we still need about 5 more .

[tekkyy]

@Imperious:

+++++ why do you want to remove it? In the German case it was removed to get the number under 15

It was also the difficulty in choose whether to have a powerful destroyer…or a fast battleship…or a 2-hit destroyer.
And then the optional unit CA (Cruiser).
Come to think of it we made CA take 2-hits…but didn’t Battlecruiser do good against weaker ships but not as well against Battleships because it had cruiser armour?

ok this is updated list we still need about 5 more .

By the way we can forgo same number per nation.
It turns out USSR had 14 not 16. We did make Germany 16 though. But Italy wasn’t 16, too hard.

[Imperious Leader]

+++++ why do you want to remove it? In the German case it was removed to get the number under 15
It was also the difficulty in choose whether to have a powerful destroyer…or a fast battleship…or a 2-hit destroyer.
And then the optional unit CA (Cruiser).
Come to think of it we made CA take 2-hits…but didn’t Battlecruiser do good against weaker ships but not as well against Battleships because it had cruiser armour?

OK your right lets remove it.

Quote
ok this is updated list we still need about 5 more .
By the way we can forgo same number per nation.
It turns out USSR had 14 not 16. We did make Germany 16 though. But Italy wasn’t 16, too hard.

yes but if we get about 16 for UK then we can trim the fat off. Just need a large pool of ideas.

[Micoom]

@Imperious:

+++++ why do you want to remove it? In the German case it was removed to get the number under 15
It was also the difficulty in choose whether to have a powerful destroyer…or a fast battleship…or a 2-hit destroyer.
And then the optional unit CA (Cruiser).
Come to think of it we made CA take 2-hits…but didn’t Battlecruiser do good against weaker ships but not as well against Battleships because it had cruiser armour?

OK your right lets remove it.

Or we could make the Cruiser unit a one hit piece, and the cost dropping from 15 to 12IPC??  Then both the German and this UK NA can be in?

[tekkyy]

@Imperious:

yes but if we get about 16 for UK then we can trim the fat off. Just need a large pool of ideas.

yes of course we still need more ideas for UK
but doesn’t matter about same number for each nation

@Micoom:

Or we could make the Cruiser unit a one hit piece, and the cost dropping from 15 to 12IPC?? Then both the German and this UK NA can be in?

Its good to think out of the box. But then what happens to destroyers?

SS (submarine)     8 IPC, 2/2, move 2
DD (destroyer)     12 IPC, 2/2, move 3
CA (cruiser)         15 IPC, 3/3, move 3
CV (carrier)          16 IPC, 1/3, move 3
BB (battleship)     20 IPC, 4/4, move 2

[Micoom]

SS (submarine)    8 IPC, 2/2, move 2
DD (destroyer)    8 IPC, 2/2, move 3
CA (cruiser)        12 IPC, 3/3, move 3
CV (carrier)          16 IPC, 1/3, move 3 (2 hits)
BB (battleship)    20 IPC, 4/4, move 2 (2 hits)

Do it like this. I think a 12 IPC 2/2 DD was to expensive anyway.  And by make the Navy units cheaper, we create more Sea battles. This because they will be purchased more often. And it also gives us more room in the NA’s… Agree?