AARHE: Phase 2: National victory conditions

[tekkyy]

Finally, I comment on your modifcations.

Firstly, is this gonna be for turn-limited game? Or total victory game? It seems we can’t cater for all game modes. Like if a player surrenders or something. A couple of items can turn out funny.

Germany, African Campaign, change to British territories…good
Germany, 1000 Year Riech, 50+ IPC per turn of income…ok

Italy, Remain an important part of the Tripartite Pact, 25+ income per turn…ok

Japan, Secure Oil Resources, plus her own territory of borneo/ east indies…ok
Japan, Northern Buffer, Mongolia…should it be if not netural? but ok

USSR, Protect Heavy Industry, all factories…hmm, that would make me thinks twice before building new IC
USSR, East Asia Influence, with no japanese in mainland Asia…game mode question pops up! what is the purpose in a total victory game? if Japan surrenders their forces have to retreat out of Asia anyway

UK, Preserve Military Might, too much accounting…yeah, maybe to preserve control of “Trans Jordon” and India by having forces there, like after WWII US moved into “Trans Jordon” after diminishing UK/France control, and India revolted a few times

US, Protect the americas, No axis units in…sounds like more for turn-limited game mode, how about always in control of East+Central+West US + Alaska?
US, Maintain Public Support, accounting aspect…yeah, it would be done every turn lol

[Adonai]

Umm… thanks for saying I touched a God. Not bad for me sitting down at a computer for a couple hours trying to create conditions because I had completely forgotten about the project until reminded pant  :mrgreen:

Anyway, I’d like us to first discuss which would be the BEST way to utilise these ideas - ie which system we plan to use, as tekkyy said we need to determine when the rules could be used etc. After that’s cleared up we should go through it country by country, creating goals for each type of victory that work with eachother… just my take, though.

[Imperious Leader]

The system is as someone indicated… namely you pick 3 out of the 5 conditions. For longer games you have to pick 4 or even all 5 victory conditions… Victory cities can still be used but that is for team winners. national victory conditions are individual winners ( 1st , 2nd, 3rd)

[tekkyy]

individual: could use Adonai’s points system for individual winner, I mean if both US and UK achieve all 5 goals then what?

picking: by the way I wasn’t thinking of “picking” but you just accomplish 3 out of 5 to win “nationally”

system: I was thinking 3/5 goals for total victory games, if you make it all 5 things becomes predictable, it becomes a checklist rather than options
so if you feel 3/5 is too easy then add more goals or increase difficutly of individual goals

maybe we do some background research and add in one item/power to model the secret/unusual goals of WWII…possibly ones controverisal

[Guerrilla Guy]

German UFO’s?  :|

Or more like Enigma…

GG

[Imperious Leader]

For individual victory conditions you need a certain number of VC in addition to the ones you start with. The victory cities are the only centers that need point values added to them. I might add that the values should be from 1-10 points and the values should be the same for each nation otherwise it may be too much accounting…

also we need to add Malta to the phase 3 map. It was a very strategic point.

I feel that gibrater and Malta should have more significace in the game than territories devoid of value. The loss of either would have major problems for england.

Further i was thinking about convoy boxes (ala AA europe/ Pacific) I know we have addressed economic attacks on individual territorys, but the sea lanes also represent the interception of income that was dependant on colonies ( mostly UK, Japan, and USA) but we could/ should add a convoy box for italy that could be attacked from malta. This would be accurate. attacking the box could be just roll d6= lost IPC or roll 1-2=1 ipc, 3-4=2 ipc, 5-6=4 ipc lost

[Guerrilla Guy]

I suggested that during Phase 1! Personally I am all for it… Possibly a system of Economic transfer more then Extra money i.e. IPC goes onto Convoy…

GG

[Imperious Leader]

So then you mean they have a value as they do in AA Europe?  so that no more than 3 or 4 points can be destroyed from them?

[Guerrilla Guy]

Maybe… I was even thinking that it was a “transfer” point for foreign IPC’s, so that either you build Oversea IPC’s to get “bigger” equipment or spend Commonwealth money on Infantry… It can transfer up to a certain amount of cash per turn out of it, which can be off board and transferred to the home country at the beginning of the next round… It then can be preyed on… The IPC’s are represented by chits…

GG

[tekkyy]

ok I’ve replied to both ideas

Economics in
AARHE: Phase 3: Income  http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=7551.15.msg=125771#msg125771

Gibraltar and Malta in
AARHE Historical Map http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=7552.msg125769#msg125769

[Imperious Leader]

OK we need to establish the different convoy zones and which areas they cover. Secondly decide the total value in income that UK was dependant upon from oversea colonies… the same procedure would apply for USA, Japan, even Italy. Next we assign what units can “attack” these points and at what roll they need to obtain to “find” the shipping and trade. A track would be used for each of the above players to demonstrate the portion of the income could be attacked. a chit system is used to move any lost income from the player aid card as destroyed. I suspect germany would not take part in this, but lend lease aid to Soviets could take a hit. I have to consult some books to get the % of total income that in each case may be intercepted. GG has made some good ideas with this!

[tekkyy]

The currnet list
Still has to think of counter-accounting implementations for 3 goals denoted by …

Germany

Establish Lebensraum ~ End the game in control of Western Europe, Germany, Southern Europe, Norway, Eastern Europe, Balkans, Switzerland (if not neutral) and Spain (if not neutral).
African Campaign ~ End the game with Germany/Italy control of all British territories in Africa.
Conquer Russia ~ End the game in control of Russia.
Operation Sea Lion ~ Capture United Kingdom.
Defend the Fatherland ~ Always in control of Germany.
1000 year Reich ~ End of the game with 50+ IPC income per turn.

Italy

Establish new Roman Empire ~ End the game in control of Southern Europe, Balkans, Trans-Jordan, Anglo-Egypt, Libya, Algeria and Spain (if its not neutral).
Remain an important part of the Tripartite Pact ~ End of the game with 25+ IPC income per turn.
Control the Mediterranean ~ End the game in control of Gibraltar, Algeria, Trans-Jordan, and Anglo-Egypt.

Japan

Conquer China ~ End the game in control of Sinkiang, China, Manchuria, and Kwangtung.
Establish Pacific Control ~ End the game in control of original islands and Midway Island, Hawaiian Islands, Australia and New Zealand.
Post War Superpower ~ End the game with income level higher than Germany.
Secure Oil Resources ~ End the game in control of Anglo-Egypt, Trans-Jordan, Saudi Arabia (whether neutral or not) and Persia plus original territories Borneo and East Indies.
Northern Buffer ~ End the game in control of Buryatia S.S.R, Soviet Far East, Mongolia, Alaska and Midway Island.

USSR

Eastern Europe Buffer ~ End the game in control of West Russia, Belorussia, Uktraine S.S.R., and Eastern Europe.
Race to Berlin ~ Capture Germany before US or UK.
Protect Heavy Industry ~ Always in control of all ICs and income level always 15 IPCs or greater.
East Asia Influence ~ End the game in control of Manchuria and Mongolia (if its not neutral). Or end the game with Japan holding no territories in mainland Asia.
Expand Communism ~ End the game in control of Eastern Europe Buffer, Norway, Balkans and Turkey. Or end the game with majority control of majority control of Mongolia, Sinkiang, China, Manchuria, Kwangtung, and French Indochina.

UK

Preserve Colonial Empire ~ End the game in control of original territories, Solomon Islands and Borneo.
Race to Berlin ~ Capture Germany before USSR or US.
Contain Communism ~ End the game with UK/US control of Western Europe, Southern Europe and Norway.
Battle for Britain ~ Do not allow United Kingdom territory to be invaded successfully.
Preserve Military Might ~ …

US

Contain Communism in Europe ~ End the game with UK/US control of Western Europe, Southern Europe, Norway. End the game with UK/US majority control of Sinkiang, China, Manchuria, Kwangtung, and French Indochina.
Protect the Americas ~ …
Maintain Public Support ~ …
Race to Berlin ~ Capture Germany before USSR or UK.
Occupy Japan ~ End the game in control of Japan.

[tekkyy]

Imperious Leader has sugguested these for the 3 missing national victory conditions.

UK
Preserve Military Might ~ Have over 35 IPC income per turn

US
Protect the Americas ~ No Axis forces in contrl or adjacent from any territories in western hemisphere.
Maintain public support ~ Generate over 45 IPC per turn.

[Imperious Leader]

also added/changed italian Victory conditions and some scripting on the names under types Victory

[tekkyy]

I presume those 3 conditions are required at all times?

eg. No axis forces in control of adjacent  from any territories in western hemisphere…throughout the entire game.

[Imperious Leader]

All 3 conditions of victory must be met at the same time for one turn. Its possible you will have satisfied one condition and trying to achieve another. You also have to write them down at the start of the game so you cant change them midstream.

[tekkyy]

write them down at the start + all conditons true for one turn
…so like a secret mission game mode?

what I had in mind was national victory being additional conditions to player “victory”
you can change your plan through out the game when some things are not possible

I guess this is a game mode question

we already have:

total victory (normal)
major victory (VCP) ---------------> rename to city victory?
minor victory (time limited, IPC) ---------------> rename to economic victory?

so now we add national victory:

*(secret mission, your idea)
*(3 of 5 conditions, my idea)
---------------> rename to strategic victory?

[Imperious Leader]

Yea its secret mission mode! post your modifications.

i sent you a bunch of new emails

[tekkyy]

ok I’ve uploaded new file

major victory –----> renamed to “city victory”, no change
minor victory ------> renamed to “economic victory”, IPC instead of VCP

I got confused earlier, read the draft again…national victory is secret mission not a new game mode

[Imperious Leader]

ok send it back so i can make my copy the same.