AARHE: Phase 2: Naval Combat

[Imperious Leader]

That would be great! that way others can see where we are currently… often we are discussing very specific details and dont step back to look at the larger framework of the project. Its important to do this like painting a picture really.WE will also know where we are and what we still have left to do.

[Guerrilla Guy]

@Imperious:

Ok great … sorry to ask this but can you compile what we got at this point for phase two?  We have to reword my horrible linguistic interpretation of the new combat system.

Plus i feel some new people will join us soon and it would be good for them to see where we are in a single thread for phase one and two…

the question remains:  where is Duke?

Please do! I didn’t really get to understanding the gibberish you guys had on Phase 1 so I got lost in the general ideas for combat… It would help to understand it in Rule form…

GG

[Imperious Leader]

LOL

[tekkyy]

yep I’ll get to it soon

for now read about phase 1 at
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=6743.0

it comes with justifications in italics  :-)

[Gen AlexanderPatch]

Hey guys, two completely random naval combat ideas: Sherman DD amphibious tanks and Catalina flying boats!

(These are new units)

DD Sherman Tank
Cost: 6 IPCs
Move: 2 (1 when on water)
Attack: 3
Defense: 2
Ability: Able to move across sea zones; may not blitz

PBY Catalina Flying Boat
Cost: 18 IPCs
Move: 7 (8 with Long-Range)
Attack: 4
Defense: 1
Ability: No SBR; able to attack ships?

*What do you think? Swimming tanks can be able to help D-Day. Fact: They were used in the actual D-Day landings, however a lot of them sank at Omaha (27 of 32)

[tekkyy]

Need to double check the level of deployment of these swimming tanks to see whethre its under the level of abstraction in AA.

But there is a place for sure a unit in our amphibious assault rules!  8-)
These tanks would actually fight from first round!

Our current rule is that only attacking INF fights in the first round of land combat in an amphibous assault.

ARM and ART fights from second round and only if there are surviving attacking INF in the first round.
This is to model the capturing of the beach, without which the slow offloading of tanks and artillery from landing craft would make them sitting ducks.
This is probably the reason why historically infantry were the first waves in amphibious assault.

[Gen AlexanderPatch]

See… I didn’t even see those rules… So we need a compilation. Btw I saw Phase 1; is there still room for changes?

[Imperious Leader]

room for changes only after phase 2 and 3 are complete… we then we scour the entire document with a fine tooth comb.

[Gen AlexanderPatch]

Ok

[tekkyy]

oh yeah we need to formalise naval combat antiair

current the these units are assign antiair values

Cruiser (CA) 4
Destroyer (DD) 2
Battleship (BB) 1
Carrier (CV) 1

SS (submarine) and AP (transport) have no antiair capabilities

just let these units in opening-fire in every round roll a dice hitting on 4, 2, 1, and 1 respectively?

[Adonai]

I think CA makes more sense for CArrier that Cruiser.

Perhaps add for the Amphibious tanks “cannot move more than 1 (or 2) SZs from a coast”. It doesn’t seem realistic to have a tank moving across the Atlantic or Pacific.

[Imperious Leader]

oh yeah we need to formalise naval combat antiair

current the these units are assign antiair values

Cruiser (CA)  4
Destroyer (DD)  2
Battleship (BB)  1
Carrier (CV)  1

SS (submarine) and AP (transport) have no antiair capabilities

just let these units in opening-fire in every round roll a dice hitting on 4, 2, 1, and 1 respectively?

Yes exactly! but was this the correct value?  was it not:

Cruiser (CA)  4
Destroyer (DD)  2
Battleship (BB)  2
Carrier (CV)  1

[tekkyy]

@Adonai:

I think CA makes more sense for CArrier that Cruiser.

Sorry I didn’t explain earlier.
The abbreviations of naval units are US hull classifications.

Yes exactly! but was this the correct value?  was it not:

Cruiser (CA)  4
Destroyer (DD)  2
Battleship (BB)  2
Carrier (CV)  1

ok sure

anyway, but is it too powerful?
a Cruiser fleet, 66% chance of downing an air division, every cycle of combat

[Imperious Leader]

Cruiser (CA)  3
Destroyer (DD)  2
Battleship (BB)  2
Carrier (CV)  1

ok you like this?

[tekkyy]

I duno.
I only hear 10% of downed planes are due to land antiaircraft, 90% by enemy planes.

I have no idea whats the breakdown for naval combat.

[Guerrilla Guy]

Why don’t you make it a flat “1” and just increase the amount of die each ship rolls?

GG

[Imperious Leader]

I suppose that can be done except that demonstates purely a quantity thing. Id go with that ok:

Cruiser (CA)  4
Destroyer (DD)  2
Battleship (BB)  3
Carrier (CV)  2

= rolls each ship makes before attack

example: 4 enemy planes are attacking a BB and 3 destroyers. Each destroyer can sheild the BB at the rate of 1/1… thus each of 3 destroyers are allocating potential hits with the 4th plane getting a possible shot on the BB. Each destroyer in turn takes 2 rolls of D6 for a total of 6 rolls… yeilding 1 hit… the BB rolls seperately and also hits.

thus out of 4 planes 2 are shot down. The BB shot down its plane so it cannot be hit this round.

next each plane attacks: yeilding 2 hits… 2 destroyers are lost.

we are left with one bb and one destroyer.

the attacker wants to attack again…

each plane must go against each ship because the remaining destroyer is sheilding the BB.

both surface ships roll seperatly 2 rolls each… all misses

each plane now fires and again gets two hits!

the destroyer is sunk and the BB is also hit ( takes 2 hits)

the defender decides to retreat… end of battle.

this is how it would go. I like it as well. its just alot of dice rolling…

[Guerrilla Guy]

Wasn’t that was available? More firepower? Some ships had more guns, flat rate of hit, more chances to hit… Makes sense to me…

GG

[tekkyy]

ok sounds good

note the percentages are now…

CA 4 * 1/6 = 66%
BB 3 * 1/6 = 50%
DD 2 * 1/6 = 33%
CV 2 * 1/6 = 33%

[Imperious Leader]

ok good add it to the file. thanks Tekky!  8-)