Official Playing Piece Count from WOTC…

[Wedge]

I had issues with the number of pieces that came with my AAR.  The total amount of pieces on the box says 366 but when I counted all the pieces I came up short.  I contacted customer service at Wizards and the guy sent me a total listing of all pieces so I could see if I needed replacements (I do).  He also said that there were not as many pieces as you think and the box is wrong.  In the mean time they are sending me a new set of UK pieces because mine are not tan - they are more green in color.  I hope the above list helps some of you.

[Imperious Leader]

awesome list! where was the site you got this from? URL? BTW I can just give you a copy of my revised map to save you much work, but id like help on my project… revised axis and allies: expansion edition  ( see house rules section) perhaps we can work on it together… I have posted some preliminary ideas. Im adding Italy to the game as well.

[Wedge]

@Imperious:

awesome list! where was the site you got this from? URL? BTW I can just give you a copy of my revised map to save you much work, but id like help on my project… revised axis and allies: expansion edition  ( see house rules section) perhaps we can work on it together… I have posted some preliminary ideas. Im adding Italy to the game as well.

The list was emailed to me from WOTC customer service.  I will check out your post on the other forum.  Just let me know what you need help with.

[Wedge]

Imperious Leader: Check your email.

Also, that is a very impressive map for the original A&A.  I will gladly help you with a revised edition.  I would like to make a map with your talents that is a direct reproduction of the A&A Revised game board.

[Imperious Leader]

I would like to make a map with your talents that is a direct reproduction of the A&A Revised game board.

HUH? thats what i made… I have also redone 2nd edition (as per the site under: second world war)… however, that was drawn over 3 years ago and I can do alot more…Ill check my email… What i need help on is to create some nifty Italian NA’s and come up with a more profound way of dealing…er solving the following problem:

Giving Italy 10 IP (southern europe, Balkans, LYbia) draws germany into a hole…1) they lost 25% of the income 2) they lose a number of pieces which are now Italian.

basic solution that i have come up with so far:

Give Germany 10 extra points each turn (add 10 to Germany itself) AND give the US player 10 IPC to be only spend on “Lend Lease” to either UK or Soviets as they choose… Question: does this solve the problem? does it create other imbalances not forseen? Also… how is the US player going to give this money? is it shipped and is subject to being “sunk” or does it just appear on that players turn as extra cash?    This is the idea im working on…

[Wedge]

@Imperious:

I would like to make a map with your talents that is a direct reproduction of the A&A Revised game board.

HUH? thats what i made… I have also redone 2nd edition (as per the site under: second world war)… however, that was drawn over 3 years ago and I can do alot more…Ill check my email… What i need help on is to create some nifty Italian NA’s and come up with a more profound way of dealing…er solving the following problem:

Giving Italy 10 IP (southern europe, Balkans, LYbia) draws germany into a hole…1) they lost 25% of the income 2) they lose a number of pieces which are now Italian.

basic solution that i have come up with so far:

Give Germany 10 extra points each turn (add 10 to Germany itself) AND give the US player 10 IPC to be only spend on “Lend Lease” to either UK or Soviets as they choose… Question: does this solve the problem? does it create other imbalances not forseen? Also… how is the US player going to give this money? is it shipped and is subject to being “sunk” or does it just appear on that players turn as extra cash?    This is the idea im working on…

My bad.  I miss understood what you were asking my help with.

I cant answer your questions about Italy because I would need to play test that scenario to see if imbalances occur.  What you could do is just have the German player and Italian player work in conjuction with one another and the German player could alot a portion of his income to the Italian player each turn.  It wouldnt have to be a certain amount you could leave it up to the German player to divey out the IPCs. You could also use the lend lease rules for the two.  In order for this to be historically accurate I will have to do some research.

[Imperious Leader]

leave it up to the German player to divey out the IPCs.

Im afraid this would be vandalized so that no Italian pieces are ever bought!  It should be seperate…independant as it was…Thats the issue before us and others who decide to help with this project.

It must be done but how…

[Wedge]

@Imperious:

leave it up to the German player to divey out the IPCs.

Im afraid this would be vandalized so that no Italian pieces are ever bought!  It should be seperate…independant as it was…Thats the issue before us and others who decide to help with this project.

It must be done but how…

I know it could possibly be vandalized (German player taking the advantage), but it would be necessary for the two players (German/Italian) to work together to decide what needs to be purchased.  What I think would happen if the two players dont work together and Germany doesnt allow Italy the funds backing it needs then Italy will be out of the game in no time and inturn giving the allies a “back door” into Germany.  When you start taking away IPCs from one country and giving to another added country you are changing the entire physics of the game.  I understand the problems that you are running into, but in order to work through this I think a significant amount of time needs to be spent on play testing to see how this actually works.  I think it is important to make this as easy as possible so you have continuity with all aspects of the game and the way that it was meant to be played.

[Imperious Leader]

Yes quite right… but we are giving the allies 10 extra points as well… so isnt the balance addressed? I agree that Both Germany and Italy have to work together to win… perhaps the key ingredient would be to seperate the turns so that like the allies the axis have 3 seperate turns… So perhaps they just follow the german turn… but are done seperately… HMMM thats sounds good. Also, the lend lease should have to be transported and be subject to interception (sinking) that would add alot to the game, when before this element that was in the war is very much ignored in revised…

[Guest]

IL… why not stop a hair short of a “fully independent” Italy, which would, based on the previous posts still be pathetically weak compared to the other 5.

Make Italy QUASI independent.  They control 10 IPC’s:  Southern, Balkans, Libya, and give them control of the Vichy French fleet in SZ14.

Italy works in conjunction with the German player, and can either move WITH Germany, or immediately after Germany.  This gives that Axis a “1-2” punch the same as the Allies get with USA/USSR.  And even though it is the same income… it creates some VERY interesting possiblities…
Germany could take 1 Russian fortified frontier territory in G1, then Italy could blitz through it and hit the lightly defended territory behind in I1.

It forces Russia into defending TWO territories deep, instead of stacking on the perimeter, in case Germany gets a break through that Italy could then exploit.

For starting units:
Add 1 FIG to Southern, 1 INF to Libya.

As For National Advantages:
If you are concerned about Italy being too weak, give them Industrial Tech to start.  May not make historical sense, but it makes their 10 IPC’s worth far more to start AND makes Africa a much juicier target for Italy, and a much stronger need for the Allies to keep it.

Other Possible NA’s:
Piggy-Back Tech:  On the turn after Germany obtains a given technology, Italy gets it also (if Germany gets HB in G2, Italy has it in I3)
Mediteranean Express:  Like the Tokyo Express, but allows Italy to move 1 INF on ANY surface ship in non-combat movement
Desert Tracks:  Allow Italian ARM to move through Sahara.  They must both enter and leave Sahara in same turn and cannot retreat there (any Italy units in Sahara at end of Italy’s turn die)
Afrika Corps:  Allow any German units sent to Africa to become Italian upon landing, and be immediately usable by Italy.

I think Africa just went into play far more than ever before…  US now has even MORE reason to go there first, and UK has even more reason to fight to secure it (and a harder fight too) instead of quickly heading for Archangel.

Now your “little” Italy with 10IPC just became a serious risk to the Allies, despite Germany being weaker with the loss of 10 IPC’s to start.

[Imperious Leader]

This is brilliant!!!  everything you posted is exactly the kind of stuff i need!  OK you qualify for a free map as well… just email me and ill mail it out!! Man your incredable!  However… can i get about 4 more NA’s… you see i allow each player to pick 4 NA’s from my hybrid list… thats found under house rules (revised axis and allies: expansion edition).

thanks again for taking the time for that!

[Guest]

More Italy NA ideas…

Malta:  Allows Italy to “land” AF in SZ14 as though there were an AC in it.  FIGS in SZ14 defend as though they were on an AC, and have a range as though they were on an AC in SZ14.

Blitz Defense:  Prevents any any armor from blitzing through any original Italy territory.  Armor is slowed by poor bridges, donkeys, etc. that prevents Allied forces from blitzing through any original Italy territory (Patton has to stop, get out his pistol, kill the donkey, and then the tanks can move on next round) :-)

Untrained Forces:  The first time Italian forces meet a given Allied nation in battle, the Italians choose the order of loss for the Allied forces (this is designed to foster a “Kaserine” style result in Italy’s first encounters with enemy forces)

Axis Pact:  Allows any German forces that end their turn in an Italian held territory to be used by Italy in THEIR attack, even if the German forces were used during Germany’s turn.  Aircraft so used MUST return to the their starting point (where they were when Germany ended their turn) at the end of battle.  All such forces revert to German control at the end of Italy’s turn.

[Imperious Leader]

Malta:  Allows Italy to “land” AF in SZ14 as though there were an AC in it.  FIGS in SZ14 defend as though they were on an AC, and have a range as though they were on an AC in SZ14.

Britian owns malta and the axis never took it.. it was basically a fortress and harassed axis shipping to Lybia.. not sure about that NA.

Blitz Defense:  Prevents any any armor from blitzing through any original Italy territory.  Armor is slowed by poor bridges, donkeys, etc. that prevents Allied forces from blitzing through any original Italy territory (Patton has to stop, get out his pistol, kill the donkey, and then the tanks can move on next round)

This is good but its not much of a NA IMO.. yes Italy had many mountains and tanks had a tough time of it.

Untrained Forces:  The first time Italian forces meet a given Allied nation in battle, the Italians choose the order of loss for the Allied forces (this is designed to foster a “Kaserine” style result in Italy’s first encounters with enemy forces)

I like this better, but it needs work because It was the Germans are the ones that inflicted the major defeat on our "green" troops.. while the Italians really didnt do much. I think ill keep that anyway.. its not historical but its really good! 

Axis Pact:  Allows any German forces that end their turn in an Italian held territory to be used by Italy in THEIR attack, even if the German forces were used during Germany’s turn.  Aircraft so used MUST return to the their starting point (where they were when Germany ended their turn) at the end of battle.  All such forces revert to German control at the end of Italy’s turn.

this is much better! ill keep this as well...

Id like to have an Italian frogmen NA…ideas?

also, something about Italian Folgore divisions… these were a different class of better troops…

[Guest]

Sorry, Malta was a brain fart.  Was thinking the other direction…

Not sure if the blitz thing would be viable or not, but figured I would post it anyway.

Glad you liked the first batch and the Axis Pact ideas.  If I draw a blank and have no others, I am sure you will come up with 2 more :-)

[Guest]

Here is a wild one…

Catholic Mass:  Allows Italy to ONCE call for the Pope to endorse Italy’s roll in the war.  If succesful (1 in 6 on die) would create 1 INF in every neutral nation that was largely Catholic, controlled by Italy.  Effected nations:  Spain, Argentina, Peru, Venezuala.  IPC amount for each effected nation raised to 1 each.

And this for your “frogmen”
Scuttle Crew:  Would allow 1 INF to attack 1 Allied naval unit that PER INF that is adjacent to an Italian held territory containing INF (Italy specifies targets).  INF rolls normal attack (1 in 6) and if succesful sinks 1 Allied ship. Such attack preceeds normal attack round.  Failure is loss of Italy INF.