Mongolia and Neutrals - rules summarized here

[514bishy]

Thanks for posting this info Gamerman. Just have a few more questions to be certain.

1)Mongolian question:
I have read in the forums that if Germany attacks a territory bordering Mongolia and Japan reinforces the territory it won’t activate neutral Mongolia. Does the same apply for the allies, meaning if USA attacks Korea and Russians back them up, does that end the Mongolian pac?
Similarly if Britain places troops in Yunnan to back it up and Japan attacks it then Japan is declaring war on Britain correct?

2)Anzac and Dutch territories:
I still have a lot of trouble with this one…
Like Anzac, can Britain or a USA (at war) control a Dutch territory and gain the IPC value?
IF Japan controls these Dutch territories, Anzac, Britain and the USA can attack these territories correct? If Anzac can’t collect the IPC value after that point can Britain or the USA collect it?

3)Extra AAA question:
Lets say you attack a territory with a transport and 2 infantry and there are no enemy units in it, can you then in non combat, on a different transport, bring a AAA gun in the territory?
What would be the procedure of the AAA on transport during combat? You load it up on a transport on one turn, then on the next turn you can load your infantry and attack. It clearly doesn’t fire at any possible enemy air planes that might be on the territory so does it get used as a casualty? If it was the last unit alive, could it capture the territory?

4. Extra China question:
   When the rulebook says that China can even control kwangtung and Burma if they take it from the axis & India is under axis power, does that mean that China will get kwangtung and Burmas IPC values?
   When the allies are liberating French territories from the axis they do not collect the IPC value of those territories correct?

Thanks in advance  :-)

[elevenjerk]

If Russia attacks Korea or a Japanese controlled territory bordering Mongolia, then the Mongolians will not join Russia

So Japan can attack Siberia and Soviet Far East but Russia can’t attack Korea (none of which is bordering Mongolia)???  Seems like another rule favoring the axis in a game where no one wants to be the allies :|

[ghr2]

@elevenjerk:

If Russia attacks Korea or a Japanese controlled territory bordering Mongolia, then the Mongolians will not join Russia

So Japan can attack Siberia and Soviet Far East but Russia can’t attack Korea (none of which is bordering Mongolia)???  Seems like another rule favoring the axis in a game where no one wants to be the allies :|

I love being the allies actually.  The Korea thingsmakes sense, this makes it harder for Russia to pull some BS.

[gamerman01]

@514bishy:

Thanks for posting this info Gamerman. Just have a few more questions to be certain.

You’re welcome.  My pleasure

1)Mongolian question:
I have read in the forums that if Germany attacks a territory bordering Mongolia and Japan reinforces the territory it won’t activate neutral Mongolia. Does the same apply for the allies, meaning if USA attacks Korea and Russians back them up, does that end the Mongolian pac?
Similarly if Britain places troops in Yunnan to back it up and Japan attacks it then Japan is declaring war on Britain correct?

The rule book says if Japan attacks a SOVIET CONTROLLED territory bordering Mongolia, so that’s right, reinforcing won’t turn Mongolia Russian.
The rule book says if Russia attacks Korea.  If Russia is reinforcing an Allied held Korea, Russia is not attacking Korea.
Britain moving anything into China is AN ACT OF WAR against Japan, so Japan could declare war on the British without bringing in the USA (would be provoked by the reinforcement of China by UK)

2)Anzac and Dutch territories:
I still have a lot of trouble with this one…
Like Anzac, can Britain or a USA (at war) control a Dutch territory and gain the IPC value?
IF Japan controls these Dutch territories, Anzac, Britain and the USA can attack these territories correct? If Anzac can’t collect the IPC value after that point can Britain or the USA collect it?

Read my Dutch post again.  It clearly says the USA can only control a Dutch territory if it is taken by an Axis power FIRST.  ONLY ANZAC/UK have the special relationship that allows them to take control from the Dutch directly.  I don’t understand the last part of the question.  ANZAC can take control of a Dutch territory if it was Dutch or Axis controlled.

3)Extra AAA question:
Lets say you attack a territory with a transport and 2 infantry and there are no enemy units in it, can you then in non combat, on a different transport, bring a AAA gun in the territory?

Yes

What would be the procedure of the AAA on transport during combat? You load it up on a transport on one turn, then on the next turn you can load your infantry and attack. It clearly doesn’t fire at any possible enemy air planes that might be on the territory so does it get used as a casualty?

AAA can not be brought in by an attacker.  It can only be used as a casualty by defenders.

If it was the last unit alive, could it capture the territory?

You can’t use AAA in attack.  They can only be moved in noncombat.  They cannot take friendly neutrals by themselves either.  You can’t load them onto transports in combat movement.

4. Extra China question:
   When the rulebook says that China can even control kwangtung and Burma if they take it from the axis & India is under axis power, does that mean that China will get kwangtung and Burmas IPC values?

Yes

When the allies are liberating French territories from the axis they do not collect the IPC value of those territories correct?

Thanks in advance  :-)

No, the Allies are not liberating the French territories.  When a capital is in enemy hands, you can directly take control of that power’s territories.  For example, if Moscow falls, the Allies can take control of Russian territories IF they wrest them from the Axis.  If the Axis never took control and it is still Russian, it will stay Russian when Allies move into it.  Same thing with France.  If the Axis never take Morocco, Syria, Algeria, or Tunisia from France, then the Allies can not possibly control them.  However, if Italy takes French territories and then an Ally takes it back, if Paris is still under Axis control then that Ally will take control of the originally French territory.

The INSTANT Paris is liberated, all original French territories under ALLIED control will revert to French control.  This means that if you have Normandy with USA, for example, and you bought 3 units to place on Normandy but you liberate France, you will NOT be able to place anything at Normandy on that USA turn because Normandy turned French the instant Paris was liberated.

These rules (about territories of powers that lost their capital) have actually been in effect for 30 years - since the original version.  I don’t know how long you’ve been playing, though, and it’s certainly more confusing with G40, what with capitals starting under enemy control (Dutch) and what all  :-)

[514bishy]

Big thx again Gamerman for all the help. You know I haven’t been playing for 30 years and have only played global 3 times. Before global I have not played one game that continued (maybe 1 round max) after a capital has been captured, so you see there is still a lot of new stuff for me. Sometimes its the way I misread something but what is the best for me is the scenarios & examples, like the way you described them. That clearly explains a lot and makes things super clear so again thx for the effort.

I have reread your post about the Anzac and think I have finally got it. You did specify about the USA there so I apologize for that.

I will phrase what I think is correct and you can correct me if Im wrong…please :D

“The UK & ANZAC are the ONLY 2 countries that can take control (collecting IPC value) of Dutch territories before they have been controlled by the Axis. Otherwise, if a Dutch territory is in control of an Axis power, it must be attacked by the UK/ANZAC/USA(at war) to be controlled(collecting IPC value)”

If what I wrote is correct then I believe it is whats written on the top left of page 9 of the Pacific Rulebook that confused the crap out of me:
‘As a result, they are free to move units into these territories as a noncombat movement at any time, as long as they have not yet been captured by Japan.’
I know that at the end of that paragraph it does say ‘Once a Dutch territory has been captured by Japan, however, it may be captured and controlled by any power.’
But the part that says ‘as long as they have not yet been captured by Japan’ should have been followed up with more explanation and some scenarios :-P or just not there at all cause otherwise isnt it obvious :lol:

[gamerman01]

Sounds like you got it, bishy, great
Glad you find my stuff helpful - I like to help people and explain stuff

[ghr2]

Every month I’m Bum-umping!  *Plays the Party Rock Anthem

[gamerman01]

Still tons of questions coming in about this very confusing set of rules

Bumping to top

[ampdrive]

Just want to clarify 1 more thing?
Mongolia is the only nuetral consisting of more than 1 territory.Can you have a situation where 1 area has joined Russia or gone pro-axis while other parts are still neutral?
My assumption is Mongolia is divided into 6 territories to reflect lack of road and rail at the time .

[ChocolatePancake]

No, Mongolia is all or nothing.

[gamerman01]

@ampdrive:

Mongolia is the only nuetral consisting of more than 1 territory.Can you have a situation where 1 area has joined Russia or gone pro-axis while other parts are still neutral?

This is answered in the original post, I think.
When Mongolia automatically joins Russia because Japan breaks the pact, all Mongolian territories become Russian immediately.

Mongolia will ONLY go pro-Axis if Russia directly attacks a Mongolian territory.  (all the remaining Mongolian territories would go pro-Axis)
If an Ally other than Russia attacks Mongolia, the rest of Mongolia would remain neutral.

So you could have a Mongolia that’s partly true neutral (but all the rest of the true neutrals in the world would be pro-Axis) and partly controlled by a non-Russian Ally.  If Russia attacks Mongolia, all remaining neutral Mongolian territories turn pro-Axis.

So it’s possible that an Ally (like USA) could attack Mongolia first, which would cause all other true neutrals to go pro-Axis, but the remaining Mongolian territories would still be neutral (not pro-Axis).  But then if Russia were to attack one of these neutral Mongolia territories after the USA did, then the remaining Mongolian neutral territories would turn pro-Axis.

[Amon-Sul]

4) Despite what Triple A says, you do NOT declare war on neutrals

this is new to me but isn t it more or less the same?

[gamerman01]

It was causing some confusion for some players.

It was a bigger deal before this last Triple A update, because Triple A made you “declare war” on the neutrals before you did your purchases.  (Rulebook says declarations of war occur at the beginning of the combat move phase)

You don’t have to make a decision to “declare war” on the neutrals before your combat move because there is no such thing as “declaring war” on the neutrals.  You just attack neutrals.  If you attack a strict neutral, all the others turn pro-the other side (except Mongolia when Allies attack a neutral)
Playing by the rule book, you can do all your combat moves, and then decide whether you were going to attack a neutral, which is more convenient.

[Amon-Sul]

If Axis attack strict neutrals, Mongolia becomes pro-allied?!

[gamerman01]

@Amon-Sul:

If Axis attack strict neutrals, Mongolia becomes pro-allied?!

Yes.  The Mongolians have to be activated like other pro-allied territories.

The only time Mongolia becomes instant Russian is when Japan breaks the pact

Mongolians will only become pro-Axis if Russia attacks a Mongolian territory.

[Centurio]

Game: 14L G40 BombsAway (axis) vs. MrRoboto (Allies +9)
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=32460.15
Turn 5: Russia attacks Korea sucessfully. This breaks the pact or not?

Turn 6: Japan move to Amur, TripleA  changed the Status from Mongolians automatically and joins Russia.

Did i missed something here because for me Russia breaks to pact in Turn 5, and Japan should can attack in Turn 6 Amur during Mongolians remains neutral, is this a Bug in TripleA?

[gamerman01]

Yeah, that sounds wrong.
Russia attacking Korea breaks the pact, so you shouldn’t have Mongolia joining the Russians when Japan attacks Amur.

[Centurio]

ok thanxs for your clarification Gamerman, maybe you can add this bug to your list after you checked it please?

[ColonelCarter]

That game was only using the Alpha +3 rules, while Korea was only added to the territories Russia can break the pact with in the 2nd Edition ruleset. So in this case, TripleA did play the rules correctly.

[gamerman01]

That’s right, Korea was added between Alpha3 and 2nd edition.  It was one of the few changes (deletion of Yukon territory from the map being the other, I think)