How to balance out the game for the Allies in one easy step

[KimRYoung]

@ghr2:

Actually, the game begins right after dunkirk, after the british evacuated most of their forces.  At that point, germany easily overwhelmed france.

Well that pretty much makes it no way France can be neutral.

Kim

[zanetheinsane]

@KimRYoung:

One problem with having France go first (among others) is the time line would be incorrect. Fance was not neutral having declared war in 1939 after the invasion of Poland.

Correct but Italy did not declare war on France until after German had invaded them so easily (which has already been said in this thread).

If you want to take it even historically further, Italy’s invasion of Southern France was actually a disaster in the real war, not a roll-over like it is in AA40.

A France at war with only Germany at the start of the game and able to move forces into Southern France to repel an Italian invasion would be even more accurate. It seems that everyone is arguing that France could too easily invade Northern Italy. Why not just say that France can’t DOW on Italy? Seems simple enough.

Of course, Paris’ starting units would have to be altered to account for the extra 19 IPC, but probably not by much considering it would just be a built-in Allied bid.

[Guest]

Add 2 more french inf in normandy and in south france, a small frech fleet in z105 (dd and tranny) and add tranny in z93.

I also think 2inf FIC would be good and realistic.

This opens up for a more tactical/flexible play with France. Axis can not ignore them 100% anymore or risk the might counterattack, stack Normandy or evacuate to help britons defend London.

Another house rule that is supricingly balancing is that allies is allowed to “liberate” former french colonies in africa and asia by moving land units into them. Why would they not? This help boost UK income lategame.

[Kreuzfeld]

i find the fact that people here try to use historical accuracy as an argument for how the game works. Axis and allies is just a little more accurate than risk, if it was accurate, then russia should have a production of 50-60 and usa should have a production of more than 120, while japan should be much smaller, there would be no NOs, and so on and so on.

this thread is a thread about balance, axis is not and will never be accurate. if you want accurate games, you should look into games like world in flames (somewhat accurate), or the Europa series (VERY accurate)

[variance]

How about this:

France goes first (so allies have a chance)
France starts at war with Germany but cannot declare war on Italy until round 2 (so Italy is safe but France may attack Holland etc)
Normandy and South France ICs start with 6 damage (so no carriers; biggest possible naval build is a cruiser; repairs pricey)
Move German cruiser from z114 to z112 (bait French attack on z112; Germany can use it if it isn’t sunk)
Swap French cruiser in z110 for a Battleship (so French may attack to provoke scramble or else z112 will be blocked as in alpha 2)
Swap UK Battleship in z110 for a cruiser (so z110 doesn’t change overall, unless France builds a ship)

This thread should be in House Rules

[BJCard]

@variance:

How about this:

France goes first (so allies have a chance)
France starts at war with Germany but cannot declare war on Italy until round 2 (so Italy is safe but France can attack Holland etc)
Normandy and South France ICs start with 6 damage (so no carriers; biggest possible naval build is a cruiser; repairs pricey)
Move German cruiser from z114 to z112 (bait French attack on z112; Germany can use it if it isn’t sunk)
Swap French cruiser in z110 for a Battleship (so French may attack to provoke scramble or else z112 will be blocked as in alpha 2)
Swap UK Battleship in z110 for a cruiser (so z110 doesn’t change overall, unless France builds a ship)

This thread should be in House Rules

I would move every possible French unit to Southern France, repair Southern France Factory, build 3 Artillery there.  France turn 2 attack Northern Italy.

[variance]

@BJCard:

I would move every possible French unit to Southern France, repair Southern France Factory, build 3 Artillery there.  France turn 2 attack Northern Italy.

You could do that but Northern Italy can be stacked easily.

[BJCard]

@variance:

@BJCard:

I would move every possible French unit to Southern France, repair Southern France Factory, build 3 Artillery there.  France turn 2 attack Northern Italy.

You could do that but Northern Italy can be stacked easily.

True, but since Germany is taking Paris turn 1, they will still need a large army to take southern France (if France cannot attack Northern Italy).  This would delay Barbarossa.  Since italy is stacking Northern Italy (Probably with German help), this delays Italy’s Mediterranean war.  Heck, you could land all of Britain’s air in Southern France to force even more German units to fight you there (maybe not the best plan, but Germany would have to account for this).

[Omega1759]

@variance:

@BJCard:

I would move every possible French unit to Southern France, repair Southern France Factory, build 3 Artillery there.� France turn 2 attack Northern Italy.

You could do that but Northern Italy can be stacked easily.� �

The Germans could take Paris with a token force and move in to North Italy with a bunch of infantry / artillery. Would love this. It does have the negative implication of keeping the French Army a to be dealt with at later turns, but it would be freeing up all the mechanized troops to move East for a very strong G2.

[elevenjerk]

If I was the french I would buy 5 inf 1 art, move guys from S France and Normandy to France, fly fighter in from London.  This makes Germany have to bring all available ground units.  Add 2 bombers and a tac to that and the odds are still only 63% that Germany wins with only 2 tanks left.  Thats not the odds I want.  I at least want all my tanks and planes left after the France battle.

Who knows what happens after that.  It could balance the game or maybe skew it toward the allies.  It may be more fun if the allies are favored.  Axis gets to initiate all the action at the expense of it being a little more difficult to win.  Right now, the axis get to initiate all the action and kick ass for the most part so no one wants to be the allies.  Sit around and wait to get your ass handed to you:)

[BJCard]

@Omega1759:

@variance:

@BJCard:

I would move every possible French unit to Southern France, repair Southern France Factory, build 3 Artillery there.� France turn 2 attack Northern Italy.

You could do that but Northern Italy can be stacked easily.� �

The Germans could take Paris with a token force and move in to North Italy with a bunch of infantry / artillery. Would love this. It does have the negative implication of keeping the French Army a to be dealt with at later turns, but it would be freeing up all the mechanized troops to move East for a very strong G2.

Well, you could love this but the French will still have a sizable force in Southern France-  they could go to Normandy and the Brits could land there- perhaps land a bunch of fighters there.  Or stay in Southern France and the Brits land units there from Egypt/Malta/etc.

[elevenjerk]

Well, you could love this but the French will still have a sizable force in Southern France-  they could go to Normandy and the Brits could land there- perhaps land a bunch of fighters there.  Or stay in Southern France and the Brits land units there from Egypt/Malta/etc.

I agree.  I don’t think allowing this type of army to stay alive is a very good idea.  I would take all the german forces available to try and wipe them out asap.  Moving them into southern france would make that difficult to do on G1.  S France could have 10 inf, 3 art, 1 armor, 2 fighters, 1 AA gun.  (possibly more powerful units with a different purchase).  Germany could only get 4 mech, 3 tanks, 4 fighter, 4 tacs, 2 strat.  The odds are only 62% that germany wins with one ground unit to take the land (63% otherwise).  That also takes away most of the attacks, if not all, on the Royal Navy.  Tough spot for germany to start at.

[BJCard]

Agreed, which is why this may not balance it out.  Perhaps just allowing the French to build & place- no movement?

[Eqqman]

@BJCard:

Agreed, which is why this may not balance it out.  Perhaps just allowing the French to build & place- no movement?

If they can’t move at all, it really seems to defeat the purpose of letting them start before Germany.

[elevenjerk]

If they can’t move at all, it really seems to defeat the purpose of letting them start before Germany.

It would allow them to place additional 5 inf and 1 art in France so that germany would have to bring a bit more to take it.

[KimRYoung]

@elevenjerk:

If they can’t move at all, it really seems to defeat the purpose of letting them start before Germany.

It would allow them to place additional 5 inf and 1 art in France so that germany would have to bring a bit more to take it.

Then its just a 19 point bid, you can do that now if you’re playing with bidding.

Kim

[elevenjerk]

Then its just a 19 point bid, you can do that now if you’re playing with bidding.

A restricted bid since only the french get to spend the money.

[BJCard]

You wouldn’t have to place it all in Paris- perhaps give the French a 19 IPC bid to place anywhere they want?  Perhaps limit it to France and adjacent SZs… a French army in Africa or SE Asia may be too unbalancing.

But, a French carrier, or 2 DD’s in the Med… may be enough of a bid.

[theROCmonster]

@elevenjerk:

If I was the french I would buy 5 inf 1 art, move guys from S France and Normandy to France, fly fighter in from London.  This makes Germany have to bring all available ground units.  Add 2 bombers and a tac to that and the odds are still only 63% that Germany wins with only 2 tanks left.  Thats not the odds I want.  I at least want all my tanks and planes left after the France battle.

Who knows what happens after that.  It could balance the game or maybe skew it toward the allies.  It may be more fun if the allies are favored.  Axis gets to initiate all the action at the expense of it being a little more difficult to win.  Right now, the axis get to initiate all the action and kick ass for the most part so no one wants to be the allies.  Sit around and wait to get your ass handed to you:)

Well said. This is exactly what I would do, and man would this hurt Germany a ton. Also now the french navy is saved. Talk about a massive allied bid. You saved either 111, or 110 and cost Germany a ton of units on T1.

[KimRYoung]

Well said. This is exactly what I would do, and man would this hurt Germany a ton. Also now the french navy is saved. Talk about a massive allied bid. You saved either 111, or 110 and cost Germany a ton of units on T1.

Totally Agree.

A completly better approach would be to make Global 1939, that way you can have the Germans forced to invade Poland, Denmark and Norway, and the French would have their chance to actually attack the Germans instead of sitting on her butt like she really did (the Sitzkrieg!).

Kim