Subs are amazing units. I argue hacing about 40% of your IPCs in subs as US. Volume is vastly underrated.
German strategies
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I am a huge fan of an IC in Finland as Germany turn 2. Great staging point for northern Russia assault and or increased defense of Norway as it is no longer dependent upon TT. It also alleviates the need for a Baltic navy presence, which ca greatly assist Italy in the Med. I usually plop one down in Romania as well. Capture Leningrad and Ukraine and you have capability of supporting Italy while dropping 12 units a turn on eastern front. Also creates a manageable static defensive front for Germany if the western allies start to land. Key is to keep the Luftwaffe strong (10+planes), especially bombers. Intense Bombing of London through turns 2-4 can have a devastating effect, especially if Japan is waiting for turn 3-4.
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Have not seen an IC in Finland turn 2. When do you declare war on Russia?
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@Cpt.:
I am a huge fan of an IC in Finland as Germany turn 2. Great staging point for northern Russia assault and or increased defense of Norway as it is no longer dependent upon TT. It also alleviates the need for a Baltic navy presence, which ca greatly assist Italy in the Med. I usually plop one down in Romania as well. Capture Leningrad and Ukraine and you have capability of supporting Italy while dropping 12 units a turn on eastern front. Also creates a manageable static defensive front for Germany if the western allies start to land. Key is to keep the Luftwaffe strong (10+planes), especially bombers. Intense Bombing of London through turns 2-4 can have a devastating effect, especially if Japan is waiting for turn 3-4.
If you’re going all out land, and not worrying about your naval presence, this sounds completely viable. The dedication to air power would be the important part, as you said… those aircraft could park in Finland, Norway etc. as needed to keep the factory churning out units.
My counter to it would be heavy carrier/fighter builds with US and eventually UK in the Atlantic, to sqeeze my way into the English Channel and eventually create a constant threat on the entire German Atlantic Wall. It might be good to also think about how to defend against that… maybe a sub per round inside the Baltic to team up with air to repel a fleet?
I like your out of the box thinking… a minor IC is a small investment compared to carriers etc.
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One minor Industrial center is 12 IPC, two transports is 14 IPC. Place three units a turn in Finland or transport four units per turn into Norway, Finland, Karelia, Novgorod, or Baltic States. Can’t really lose the minor IC until Finland falls but the two transports do have to be guarded in the Baltic from British aircraft or Russian ships.
Aren’t you buying a few ships anyway in the Baltic?
British fleet in 110 and 111 was sunk on G1 turn?
The two transports add towards making a credible Sea Lion threat?This does seem a viable option if you are going to completely abandon German naval operations though. Better than a factory in Norway because a US fleet can’t get to Finland in one move from Gibraltar.
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I have not seen this enough to give a good critique of it. Looks good, I would couple it with 4 mech and an armor round 1… that way I can rush toward novgorod and take it round 3.
The factory there will not see much use after that.
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@Cpt.:
I am a huge fan of an IC in Finland as Germany turn 2. Great staging point for northern Russia assault and or increased defense of Norway as it is no longer dependent upon TT. It also alleviates the need for a Baltic navy presence, which ca greatly assist Italy in the Med. I usually plop one down in Romania as well. Capture Leningrad and Ukraine and you have capability of supporting Italy while dropping 12 units a turn on eastern front. Also creates a manageable static defensive front for Germany if the western allies start to land. Key is to keep the Luftwaffe strong (10+planes), especially bombers. Intense Bombing of London through turns 2-4 can have a devastating effect, especially if Japan is waiting for turn 3-4.
The allies won’t care if you strat bomb london since all of the fighting will be down in the Med/Middle east, they might like it since you give them free aa shots at your bombers. Landing in western europe is highly overrated. It is best that the US stays in 91 to threaten normandy/norway and to threaten a strike on italy. When Italy is convoyed out, and UK is pumping units into southern russia to contest cauc and to defend moscow, then in their spare time, the allies can start focusing on west europe (they might as well wait until the german air threat is out of range or too weak to do anything).
If Japan is waiting for a 3-4, then India will be a B-I-T-C-H, pardon my french, to take. With the likely hood of an axis pac win greatly diminished, the allies can either A, go for a full Japan contain (russia is not in any immediate danger since germany is going for the long game), or just lightly contain Japan while building up a strong atlantic fleet (have fun strat bombing canada).
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Gib airbase plus large anglo-american navy in 91 makes it very hard for the axis to threaten an air attack, especially if Germany NEVER made any navy.
IC in Finland and IC in Romania mean that there are 4 fewer tanks or 6 fewer mechs or 8 fewer infantry attacking Russia. Basically, you trade a speedy win for more flexibility in placement. I only see the Finland factory being good in defending Norway, but even then, you only have 3 units a turn that really wont become useful until turn 6 or 7 when the allies might actually start landings in Norway, and when they do, it will be in force. Since a good Germany can take Leningrad within 1 or 2 turns after they declare war (Germany declares turn 3, Leningrad is in German hands by turn 4, turn 5 at the latest, it really makes Finland only good for the Norway defense. Same with the Romania factory for Ukraine.
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I do buy subs in Baltic area and keep them in constant threat to any allies presence down through sz91. This is why I prefer bombers and subs in Atlantic front for Germany. The 3 units a turn in Finland are more of a stage to counter Norwegian landings, and though only 3 per turn, by turn 6-7 when it counts you have plenty of fodder to go with your Luftwaffe to fight back. I do buy navy still in moderation but I capture S France turn 1 and begin med navy presence. Supplementing Italy really pays off in long run IMO. I do take out both British navy’s turn 1. My reasoning is I do not need to buffer my land defenses if the allies cannot land. A solid combination of bomber/sub attacks can contest Gibraltar landings for awhile. Also helps to prevent Italy from being sardined. I generally will go turn 3-3 with axis at this point. I see merit in J-1 G-1 strategies as well as I have utilized them successfully. The reason I like doing this with Germany is it gives me more opportunities to survive catastrophic dice rolling. In the beginning game, heavy aggressive assaults can lose you the game to the ole law of averages rolling 6’s like its Yahtzee.
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I am not implying this is the best approach for all players. This is a more defensively natured plan with the idea of winning a war if attrition with Russia. Key is to dictate tempo with static battles on both sides. Try to ensure your bomber sub combo can inflict enough damage on allied landings that it sets them back at least two rounds. On Russian front you want to push the perimeters to force a delayed retreat by Russians until they turtle capital by rd 7-8. If you can pick your battles to capture novo grad by 4-5 and Ukraine by 7-8 then you should be in great shape in North Africa and Indian Ocean area. With Japan I am attacking Russia in north to at least delay the massive retreat toward capital. Stick to keeping islands and coastal territories protected, specifically kwang and Malay. If you pressure India with landings and fortify coast VC you can also use these same forces to capture DEI and go back and forth. If America does not go down south with Australia then Japan can use destroyer blocks to protect capital while swinging past India and opening up Africa Middle East for Atlantic map. This will probably mean the Japanese get run off the continent but it will give them so much of a boost in Middle East it will most likely signal end of Russia.
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I’m just saying that the allies can take their sweet time since your putting minimal pressure on russia.
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Ya I agree it does free allies up in pacific and likely prevents a pacific victory, however if your waiting J3 and G3-4, then you most likely are playing for Atlantic victory anyway.
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That is why I’m willing to utilize Japanese naval power in Indian Ocean and Persian gulf if opportunity arises.
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Does Russia push hard for Fin/Nor ?
A TT or two to reinforce with Inf & Art could be a thorn in Russia’s side
I’ve seen what a U.S. factory in Norway can do against Germany, just turn the table and get up there early….interesting.
When I’m Germany the guys here tend to go all out for KGF, Russia stacks the Fin border and the U.S. dumps in the Atl. and non-coms to the East coast. This means Japan can run a muck all over the Pac.
What are your G1 and G2 purchases?
If the opportunity presented itself it could be a good way to throw them off…maybe
Lets here more
S.A. -
Generally I have not seen russia push to hard. I, as a german player, would hope they do as the southern Russian territories are valuable. As far as my tt I start with in the Baltic, I use that as a backup for reinforcement and eventually use it for my novograd invasion. I usually leave them in 113 and my turn 1 purchase is a Str. Bomber, Destroyer, fighter. Turn 2 I usually buy a AC and a DD in Med. I usually fly a fighter and or a tactical down to Rome on turn 1 to help with toratno defense, and they can load up on german carrier to help supplement the Italian defenses. I also buy a IC for finland and Romania on turn 2. Bomber and a mech or two depending on my income from turn 1.(usually 63-67) On turn 2 I will either strat bomb london or finish off any boats that survived with my luftwaffe. The key to this defensive posture is to maximize the geographical advantage of the Baltic straights and the gibraltar straight. Controlling those waterways to allow counter attacks to allied shipping is integral to survival. This allows Italy to head toward middle east more freely. Depending on what the Russian and UK players are doing by turn 3 determines my purchase and response. At this point I usually am throwing a sub or 2 and a DD in both my Baltic and Med navies and start loading up on Inf/art/mech in eastern europe complexes. When I move on Russia I take E Poland in force and then slowly push Novograd. If the Russians reinforce Leningrad then the germans can usually withdraw toward finland and be safe from any further advance, while invading in Ukraine.
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Buying all that turn two as Germany utterly kills any chance at beating Russia before turn 8 or 9 so long as Russia does not throw away units. Uk can just turtle Egypt and Middle East with ICs in Persia and Egypt. My past experience seeing axis go for a heavy med play with slow Barbarossa usually results in at most axis holding everything from gib to occasionally Alexandria. Egypt and Persia just sit quietly and start stacking hard while uk builds a massive navy/Air Force in the Red Sea and Egypt. When America gets in the war, he will be dumping a lot in the Atlantic to where Germany will have a hard time keeping up in the naval race while still trying to keep Russia down.
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Do you strategically bomb London? I generally try to bring 3 bombers and 2-3 escorts to London a turn for rd 2-4. This prevents them from being able to reinforce Africa and Middle East effectively. If they do still insist on building their and neglecting their island, you can then bomb their airbase and go seal lion within one purchase if transports in rd 4-5. Also reason I send escorts because any British air loss is much greater than German loss. All if this is fluid in terms of dice results but generally it boils down to 1fght 1 bomber loss from Germany against 1 fight loss and 12-16 damage in London IC.
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And as far as what I’ve read on here I believe there is a Grasshopper guy who takes a similiar approach. He seems well versed in this game so I reccomend his forums as well. He is like a German Equivalent to Cow as Japan.
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I only strat bomb london when I am committing to sealion. UK can build new factories in egypt/persia and starts with one in south africa, so he does not need london for anything. Germany can’t suddenly buy enough transports to sealion to where UK can’t effectively respond post G2 unless UK completely empties london and can’t get units back home in time. UK won’t bother intercepting since germany is likely to do better in the air battle but the facilities can potentially knock out a plane or 2.
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Rememer that as Germany you want to take Novgorod as fast as you can after dow on Russia as it gives you the economic edge especially if the Russian player scoops up middle east territories, you should be in a position that you never have to withdraw and lose ground.
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Yes I know that you want to take it ASAP, however if a Russian player over loads his northern defenses, it benefits the Germans because they will dominate the Ukraine region and be able to flank onto Moscow. My point to the post was to a question regarding a minor IC in Finland and if in turn Russia will move on Finland to capture it. Even if they do get froggy up north the Germans can create a static line in Russian territory, preventing Russia from obtaining any NO, while using eastern Poland as a launching pad to take out the south.
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