It all depends on what UK does. If UK ignores them the ottomans can really grow quickly and threaten.
Report from BJCard's Table
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Ok, I will not bore you with a turn by turn synopsis, but rather a general overview:
My strategy with the CP was to focus on Russia for the first 3 turns and then shift gears to the west/south turn 4 and beyond. This is regardless of Russia getting beaten or sent to Revolution. I decided I needed to gamble a bit over there.Germany and Ottomans sent starting armies on the East front and 75% of reinforcements to Russia.
Austria sent their starting armies on the East front and 25% of reinforcements to Russia.
On turn 4 all reinforcements for all powers went west and south. I was done with Russia. Russia was aggressive early and fought Germans in Poland and Austrians in Ukraine. The Ottomans were unscathed hereto far and ended up contesting Moscow (turn 5) at a critical moment when the CP armies were weak in the East. Russia could not prevent falling into revolution.Germany and Austria purchased a Submarine every turn. I was determined not to lose my fleet too quickly and force the Allies into buying fleet.
Germany and Austria purchased a Fighter almost every turn. Air supremacy is key- In fact a single fighter in Italy is all you need as Austria because Italy usually isn�t buying any.
Starting turn 4 I was buying Tanks with all powers (ok, not Italy/Russia). They seem very useful, but tough to get large numbers of them due to waiting until turn 4 to buy them and other needs of the army (Fighters, Inf, Art).The British reinforced India with 4 troops every turn, had to purchase fleet due to German/Austrian fleet buildup and build what they could to land in France.
The CP plan was working until the Americans entered the fight. On turn 5 they landed 10 land units and 2 fighters in Rome, thus preventing an Austrian takeover of Rome turn 6, which allowed the Italians to continue to bolster their defense.
The next turn- turn 7 was the game deciding turn. The CPs had to take some risks here and it was their �last gasp.�
Austria- attempted to take Rome and failed. Attempted to break out of the Adriatic and failed.
Germany- attacked Belgium�s UK/French stack. Gained air superiority and smashed the defenders hard to contest the territory (~15 Inf, 16 Art, 4 Tanks, 4 planes vs. 12 Inf, 15 Art, 3 Tanks, 4 planes). Attempted to fight at Jutland and failed.
Ottoman- attacked the British forces in Palestine- contested the territory and outnumber the Brits.
Now it is turn 8.
The French and British can reinforce Belgium with more than the Germans can. The French have taken Switzerland and Munich. The Austrians cannot take Rome and had to divert forces to Albania when the US landed troops there. The Ottomans may be able to take out the British in Palestine, but the British are now building even more units in India and the US is landing in the Balkans.
Needless to say, the CP�s conceded because Paris and Rome were all but impossible to take.Takeaways:
Probably a good idea to focus on Russia the first 3 rounds but then cut off all reinforcements to hit the West and South. Hope for Revolution. Turns 4-6 looked good for the CPs. The Ottomans should press harder for India or Egypt. I kind of spread out a bit to defend all of it- but it presses the British if you focus on one or the other.Slowly building fleet is good for Germany/Austria- forced the British into building more fleet. In hindsight hitting Switzerland merely aided in France getting to Munich, so I don�t know that I would do that again. Austria shouldn�t bother with Tanks and ensure air superiority earlier in Italy (they sent planes to Russia first).
Germany should buy many more Infantry than Artillery. You end up with just a large stack of Artillery at the front. Also, focus on Lorraine more than Belgium. The British can reinforce Belgium from the sea, but not Lorraine.Anyway, this is my take.
What do you guys think about the takeaways? -
I still think the Central Powers are screwed.
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Wouldnt it be better (far better) to build a battleship every other turn, rather than a sub every turn ?
Also playing with RR seems to help the Allies more than the CP in my experience.
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I’m trying to figure out the optimal strategy for the CPs (even if they are doomed- what is their best plan?). I think that this game may have been pretty close to it. Russia knocked out, Rome almost taken, British on the run in the Mid East, France on the run for a few turns.
The CPs just don’t have enough gas to finish off Italy and France (after Russia is done).
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@Uncrustable:
Wouldnt it be better (far better) to build a battleship every other turn, rather than a sub every turn ?
Also playing with RR seems to help the Allies more than the CP in my experience.
I preferred to have mass Submarines- the potential for more hits on attack or defense is there (You have more die rolls). If/when the Germans attack the British the Battleships can’t repair anyway.
In this case the RR helped the CPs tremendously- the Russians may have been able to beat back the CPs- they had a huge stack in Moscow and the CPs stopped sending reinforcements to Russia turn 3-4. (Certainly the Ottoman stack would not have attacked Moscow if no RR rule- for they had no reinforcements to back them up; yet they forced revolution)
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Almost is the operative word here.
I’ve had a large German stack in Burgundy, and an Austrian army contesting Rome, but neither was ever close to finishing the job because by the time they got there the Allies were able to bring in reinforcements more quickly than the CPs.
Almost is effectively never.
I’m trying to figure out the optimal strategy for the CPs (even if they are doomed- what is their best plan?). Â I think that this game may have been pretty close to it. Â Russia knocked out, Rome almost taken, British on the run in the Mid East, France on the run for a few turns. Â
The CPs just don’t have enough gas to finish off Italy and France (after Russia is done).
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It seems like you spent a lot of effort on Russia, in only knocking them out and not getting a capital it seems you go short-changed.
I am only a couple games away from limiting the India factory to 4, increasing production of Ruhr from 0 to 6, and/or counting the revolution as a VC.
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It seems like you spent a lot of effort on Russia, in only knocking them out and not getting a capital it seems you go short-changed.
I am only a couple games away from limiting the India factory to 4, increasing production of Ruhr from 0 to 6, and/or counting the revolution as a VC.
True; it was incredibly liberating to be able to send all reinforcements one way though. I would probably count RR as a VC.
Flashman- you are right- it was ‘almost’- by the time Austria can get a large force to Rome- the US is landing troops there…
by the time Germany puts its full effort into the Western Front the British has a big stack with the French stack.
All but impossible.My next game will be Germany focuses all on France. Austria and Ottoman work on Russia early. Don’t think it will actually work, but worth a shot.
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BJ,
Your game was very similar the the one we played with the exception you used the Revolution. This is a drawback for the CP (despite not getting the capital) as they cannot capture Moscow and the remaining Russian territories. Without the revolution, the CP can defeat Russia, capture ALL her territories, and have enough IPCs to fund the war in the west.
Not building tanks for Austria may also have been a mistake as in our game she built up a large force of them to overrun the Italians, backed up by artillery and 5 fighters! Again though, she captured Moscow and several other Russian territories and could fund the fight. And yes, we had the Americans land units in Italy also, but they had to be diverted to France when Austria was moving to link up with the Germans.
The other thing that the CP did was being patient. They didn’t go all out until the IPC total had tipped enough in their favor and they had built up large enough forces to make a sustained fight. Also, guns and planes matterd more thatn infantry. If you know you can get air supremecy, don’t bother with too much infantry for soak off as the guns will pay for the losses in massive kills. Stacks of 20 some guns backed up by fighters with only around a half-dozen infantry and 4 or 5 tanks were killer.
One thing I like is even with a good stategy, there is still no guarantee of either side being overwhelming. Again, don’t play with the Revolution rules!
Kim
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Like I said, the revolution saved the CP in the East for this game (they failed in the west though)- the CPs simply stopped sending reinforcements East after turn 3/4 and hoped they would force Revolution, which it did (barely). I suppose you could not play with revolution rules, but that would require a much larger investment on the Eastern Front as Russia can have a rather large stack in Moscow.
Good point about Artillery, except I hate losing them; would rather lose Infantry if I can. Having a few tanks are invaluable in protecting your stack as it advances on Rome/Paris.
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My first game was almost exactly like your game. I had the CPs all focus on the Russians for the first 4 turns with the bulk of their troops. I didn’t buy any naval units, but I did wipe out all the UK naval units in the Atlantic with the German navy with ease. It forced them to build lots of ships for the next 2 turns without having to buy any new ones myself. I encountered the same exact problems that you did with the CPs when going after France and Italy. I got to the doorsteps of Rome and failed to take it due to the USA coming in strong to defend it. It was all downhill from there.
The second game, I tried a slightly different strategy. This yielded a victory for the CPs. I had the Germans and Ottomans go all out of the Russians again, but only had the starting units on the board go to the Russians for the AH. All their reinforcements went after Italy. It allowed me to knock out Russia and Italy. The USA was not strong enough that time to save the poor Italians. The AH had knocked the Italians down to like 4-6 IPCs with great ease. With the AH going after southern France to aid Germany in their pursuit of Paris, the allies surrendered. I did not build any naval units for the CPs until near the end of the game. That is when I started getting an Ottoman navy to go after Africa
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All in on Russia is what I’ve played – seen. Problem is that Russia can almost always go into Revolution, even as a defensive tactic to prevent the Central Powers from capturing the VC. As seen by others, it screws the CPs by preventing them from capturing the rest of the IPCs.
Here is what I think may need changing:
1. 1 more German battleship (maybe swap out French BB in the Atlantic with a Brit BB)
2. 1 German Transport to allow amphib in Baltic
3. Change R. Revolution to include a die roll to make it a little more unlikely
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johnny-
I did what you did the 2nd game- only the starting AH units went to Russia (plus an inf here and there), but I did buy submarine/turn as the AH.Forcing the revolution allows you to send less units East because you do not have to take Moscow; gives you more units in the west/south. Then again, the downside is not getting the VC and less IPCs from Russia.
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Good point about Artillery, except I hate losing them; would rather lose Infantry if I can. Having a few tanks are invaluable in protecting your stack as it advances on Rome/Paris.
If you know for certain you are going to get the air supremacy in a battle, then guns are in fact more economical then infantry. Attacking and defending at 4’s (8 total pips) compared to infantry at 2/3 (5 pips) you are getting more then 50% more combat power out of a unit that costs only 33% more.
So for 12 IPCs (3 artllery vs 4 infantry) you get 24 pips of firepower to 20 for the infantry. And while infantry can move up to 3 on the attack, this is a bonus provide by the Artillery which is not even figured into the economic comparison.
And yes you have to buy the fighters, but once that investment is made, then you can get your return on large stacks of guns. It sure worked in our game.
Kim
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Agreed on your artillery argument, but rarely on the Western front do I have air supremacy guaranteed- France and the UK buy their fair share of fighters.
Perhaps as Austria its better- They can easily have air supremacy in Italy until the US gets there.
One thing though- you could argue that when air supremacy is not guaranteed, having more units gives you both more die rolls and more units that could soak hits.
I do usually end up with more Artillery than Infantry at the front, even when I buy them at a 75%/25% ratio.
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Remember to have enough infantry saved to allow you to split up your force when you need to.
Or you’re liable to get an army stuck in Moscow…
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