i was wondering- since none of us were around then. how we would have felt in the summer of 41. europe was engulfed in a war against a nazi juggernaut. and many people felt that it was none of our business. SERIOUSLY consider my obsurdity (we need a darn spell checker). we all have the same feelings then as we do now. does it make sense for us to tell our navy to shoot german ships on sight? does it make sense to protect british shipping clear up to Iceland? can’t that be considered war? why should our boys die for them? hitler’s not so bad, all he’s doing is making up for france and britian’s unjust treaty? this is all political, the presidents just trying to find any excuse to go to war.
play along- I’m not making a point here, just an observation. remember we were neutral (officially) and many people felt that roosevelt was pushing us into war with germany (hitler’s crimes were not yet known, and the nazi’s were mowing thru russia). we of course have the benefit of hindsight now, but pretend the outcome was still uncertain. put your arguments to task here.
I naturally would say war. but that’s with the benefit of all the info. pre 45- who knows? what would you say?
Yanny - Editted Topic to better reflect the thread.
in times of doubt…. LOWER TAXES AND GO TO WAR! :D
20x20 Hindsight can misjudge the times. At that point, America was very isolated from Europe. Sure, looking back, seeing Hitler mow down France, and knowning what was going on in Germany, a lot of people would support a war. But a lot of people died in WWI, and Americans didn’t want to get into another Western Front.
I don’t know whether I would go to war or not.
thats intersting, if peral harbor didn;t happen, how much longher would it have taken us to declare war on the axis?
thats intersting, if peral harbor didn;t happen, how much longher would it have taken us to declare war on the axis?
not too long.
Hitler declared war on America prior to the U.S. declaring war on Germany. For Canada it was a different question. We were already a nation, however we had a closer alliance with Britain then we currently have with America. Also we didn’t realize what a bunch of jerks the French were . . .:wink:
like I said I’m not trying to trick or trap anyone. I just want to know. personally I feel that we were being dragged into that war against the consensus by an administration that could see beyond the immediate cost in lives. yes many people died in WW1, but war was still viewed as an almost romantic adventure back then. a way to prove yourself as a man. I think I would have supported war- if for no other reason than to kill.
but something inside me often wonders, that with that being said, would I have had the courage to step out of that boat, and into a hail of gunfire on normandy?
I have the utmost respect for those boys , and men who paid the ultimate price to rid others of tyranny. when I think life is rough I’ll sit back and imagine how they must have felt- 17-18 year old boys (many lied to enlist), many with little more than their first kiss behind them, shot to peices on some beach in france. why did they do it? it was what they felt was right. the people that will fight this and the next war will do so because THEY feel that it’s right. if you don’t feel it’s right you don’t have to fight- unfortunately you still get the benefits others die for.
You don’t join the armed forces if you don’t believe in america and the three founding principles - life , liberty, and the persuit of happiness. and you join knowing full well that you will die to uphold those principles if necessary.
I don’t believe everything that the GOV. says either, but I sift thru the facts- form my own opinion and go with what I know- WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS CUT TAXES AND GO TO WAR- right strongbad???
germany only declared war on us AFTER pearl harbor, and this was only b/c they knew we would declare war on them soon enough. after peral harbor, it was not an issue if we would declare war on germnay or not. even before we declared war we were starting on that “germnay first” policy w/ britain. if pearl didn’t happen, i believe germnay would not have declared war on us (at least not then)
I have read various people’s opinions on what would have happened had japan not attacked us. we didn’t declare war on germany until after hitler declared war on us, however that didn’t happen until we declared war on japan. many people feel that had hitler NOT declared war on us that we would have fought exclusively in the pacific. which would have aided hitler in many ways. however he did this with the hopes that japan would attack russia and perhaps prevent desaster outside of moscow. but if the japanese wouldn’t have attacked at all, roosevelt’s plan to escort ships across the north atlantic could have blown up in his face. remember we were just about slip on the war. a boat full of dead americans who got shot up hunting german subs could have swung the pendulumn either way.
During the 30’s American was on its way to economic recovery and the memory of WWI was still fresh in peoples minds. In fact polls taken in 1939 showed that 94 percent of the population was against war. Since much of our economy was based from goods going over seas, Germany and Japan waere major markets during the 30’s, neutrality was very attractive and profitable. But when Hitler envaded France and the Baltic’s opinion started to change. Hitler was now starting isolate America economically with Japans help. Also many Americans had emotional attachment to their ancestory in Europe. Once the war was over the common question was why we waited.
My heritage goes back to Denmark and is still a strong influence in my family. I’m a proud American first and foremost, but I feel Iwould want to get involved if that heritage was threatened. I’m sure many people felt that way in 1940.
I am not sure I would’ve supported the war if not for PH…
strongbad and alamein (correct me at your discretion)
You’re both wrong. Hitler declared war on the US after British/Canadian intelligence leaked false documents suggesting that the US would declare war on Germany. This enraged Hitler to the point of declaring war on America in advance.
America did not wish to enter the war in Europe for many factors. For one - they had “suffered” enough during the first WW. Another there were many powerful friends of Germany, including the Kennedy’s which pushed for a Chamberline-like pacifist stance towards Germany. Another was the “America firsters” - a group of patriots who believed in everything you’re talking about - Life, liberty, blah blah blah, and that America would only lose these things if it entered the war. It was thanks to British MI6, Canadian intelligence, as well as Bill Donovan with the Office of Secret Services that got the U.S. into the war (that and Roosevelt’s “stallwartness” . . . .
if i was a Yank back then hmm this is not hard. i always support war ;) even if we were the Antoganists i still am Pro War! that about sums me up .
CC is right about the many powerful friends in Germany, as well as national heros, Charles Lindberg the only american aviator decorated by the Nazi party. But by the end of 1940 those friendships were strectched thin and corporations were seeing a cash flow problem down the line. The only way to stay out of the war was to stop selling goods to Britain and most other overseas locations. That would have lead to another depression. But the general population of the US could not foresee or understand the economics of the situation. I feel that once people started to lose their jobs and some politiacian started making speechs that they lost thier jobs because of a Facist in Germany moods would change drastically. If Japan had not attacked Pearl it would have taken longer for the US to get involved at a much greater cost.
Also to eloborated on a comment about heritage earlier, I can understand why in todays terms that people in the US are reluctant to go to war or get involved in overseas conflict. Were are American and have been for a few generations. But in the 30s and 40s many more people were first generation Americans and still very attached to Europe.
I’m enjoying everyones views on this ….
germany only declared war on us AFTER pearl harbor, and this was only b/c they knew we would declare war on them soon enough.
On of the reasons why Hitler declared war on the US was to show that he still held the initiative in the war, after the winter showed that the USSR would not collapse but had its first successes.
But when Hitler envaded France and the Baltic’s opinion started to change.
Hitler did not invade the Baltics. They were in the Soviets zone of influence according to the Molotov-Ribbentrop treaty.
CC is right about the many powerful friends in Germany, as well as national heros, Charles Lindberg the only american aviator decorated by the Nazi party. But by the end of 1940 those friendships were strectched thin and corporations were seeing a cash flow problem down the line.
Ahm, there is a small problem.
Three of the leading industrials in the US ( Henry Ford of Ford, James Mooney of General Motors and Thomas Watson of IBM, providing the administrative backbone for the Holocaust, which they stopped not much before the declaration of war) received medals of honor from the Third Reich, Watson even got the highest medal that could be given to foreigners.
It seems to be the strategy of the USA to locate an enemy… then support the enemy of the enemy (like Hitler against Communists and Social Democrats, the Taliban against the Soviets, the Iraq against the Iran, what was the guy in Panama called again), make them big and nice and fat, and then smash them to pieces once they dirft off the line given by the US, and take more or less full control over the territory the former friend, then enemy controlled.
(I also found a list of the all interventions the US did, the conclusion of that: they are a warmongering country)
“they are a warmongering country”
Not to generalize too much……
crustic -
you raise an interesting perspective that I have never heard of before- point me to where you have gotten that info. in panzer leader guderian is puzzled by hitler’s war declaration, and accredits this towards hitlers foundness of the japanese warrior. and he would be some one I assume would be in the know.
Tinker- you bring up a very interesting point. and I cannot argue logically that this course would not have lead public opinion to sway. Once agian a credit to the administration for proceeding - against an enemy they could see was dangerous- Against public opinion.
f_alk. we were discussing the summer of 41, the treaty had already been broken, and the german army in august was already deep inside russia. I believe they captured smolensk in either august or september, and soon there after AG north did invade the baltic states (latvia estonia and lithuania- the populances of which were far harsher on the jews than the nazi’s). in order to isolate lenningrad. right?? I could be wrong- wouldn’t be the first time. and I don’t think we’re any more prone to violence or war than anyone else. why in germany they say “auslander Raus” like we say “hello”. but I think human beings as a whole ARE warlike. I think you have to be, for your Ideas and beliefs to survive.
FDR staged Pearl harbor.
A secret force was created to attack PH. Records were changed to cover the American carrier force that left Pearl shortly before the attack. Remember that the carrier was there?
How convenient that the Japanese did not hit the fuel reserves or oil refineries.
My dad was one of the Japanese Americans recruited for the mission.
America followed FDR like lemmings to water.
F_alk, thank you for the correction about the Baltics I appologize for stating bad history/geography. The Germans were thought to be Liberators as opposed to invaders in the Baltics.
I really meant to refer to 39’ poland and france, 40’ Denmark, Norway, Belgium, Holland.
@F_alk:
Ahm, there is a small problem.
Three of the leading industrials in the US ( Henry Ford of Ford, James Mooney of General Motors and Thomas Watson of IBM, providing the administrative backbone for the Holocaust, which they stopped not much before the declaration of war) received medals of honor from the Third Reich, Watson even got the highest medal that could be given to foreigners.
Also when were the medal of honors given out? I believe they were around 36’-38’??. This fits in with Hitler trying to sooth over American industry leaders, whom were enjoying the money and thier empolyees enjoyed feeding their children. Thomas Watson was a attractive traget because he was the president of the International Chamber of Commerce in 37’ which Hitler was using to his advantage. But industry could see (or so I hope) that times were changing very quickly.
