I’ve been playing triple a against the same opponent for a couple weeks straight now, so we’ve been trying a bunch of different strategies to keep the games lively.
My latest, which I have yet to see play out as it’s only turn 2, is buying a Major factory for Romania on G1. Take out the three UK Sea Zones with destroyers in them, Paris, Normandy, and most importantly, attack the three Russian border territories. This forces him to spread out his counter attack.
2nd turn, with the money from Paris, you can put 10 tanks in Romania. Keep your entire air force in holland to strategically bomb the UK…factories, airfields and naval base which pretty much allows Italy to do what they want (can opener in russia?).
Can even put a decent amount of tanks in Romania on G3. Pure blitz.
Has anybody tried this and failed/succeeded with it?
I would rather buy 10 mechs in rumania, and 8 more in germany turn 2, turn 3 you might go 8 tanks in rumania, but its prolly better with fighters
you will not be able to advance more than 1 terr/turn from your front, buying 10 arts in rumania, and 8 mechs in germany on g2, and then 10 mechs in rumania and 5 mechs in G3 might be the best option if you are going for moscow asap.
the arts in rumania will be able to hit moscow on turn g6 i think.
if you get tanks, you will maybe hit on g5. however, if you only buy tanks, it is too easy for ussr to buy arts and kill you in a counterattack
I should say, this German move coincides with a Japanese attack across Siberia/ northern china (bringing everything you have at the stack in Amur/ chasing him back to moscow if he moves the stack back).
I have found that the major factory in romania makes USSR focus all of their money on the south in ukraine/stalingrad/moscow, meaning you can basically walk into Leningrad with minimal damage. If you can get Leningrad/ukraine quick enough, thats 16 units you can place on the Russian front by about turn 3-4.
I should say, the key to this method is keeping your airforce on the western front and crippling the UK with strategic bombing raids. If Japan doesn’t provoke the UK/USA in the pacific until the US is in the war, it buys germany time to focus 100% of their money to russia.
I don’t see a quick knockout happening with Russia so what’s the point of throwing away IPCs at an industrial complex?
Just build an extra 10 infantry with the money, they will be needed to force the Russians to duck in Moscow.
romania factory cost 30 ipc.
That is 30 infantry that could be mech. or 10 infantry that could be armor.
I prefer mech/armor.
@Cow:
romania factory cost 30 ipc.
That is 30 infantry that could be mech. or 10 infantry that could be armor.
I prefer mech/armor.
Another way to think about it, I still agree.
Only time Romania Major becomes a good build, is on the round you intend to sack Moscow and you require Egypt for the win and Italy wasn’t able to secure it. The major allows the purchase of armor to address the possible UK influence out of India in order to overwhelm them.
However, its a rare day that I’ve found many opponents willing to continue once Moscow falls and the Allies are not in a position to invade and hold somewhere in Europe.
I have tried this plan and Russia falls every time. They just can’t seem to cope with all those units coming out of Romania plus hits on other fronts. Usually don’t declare war on USSR unitl G3 or 4.
G1 - buy Major IC for Romania. Take Paris, Normandy, Yugoslavia and maybe Southern France in combat. Kill as much Royal navy as possible with Luftwaffe and German navy. NCM to Finland and Bulgaria. Move inf/art from Germany to Poland and Hungary. Use transport in Baltic to move 2 inf or 1 inf/1art to Norway.
G2 - buy Airbase for Romania, 3 transports, 3 art, 3 inf and possibly a fighter or two. Any money left should go toward tanks/mechs for Berlin IC. If any Royal Navy survived, try to get it if possible. Try to get at least 3 fighters to Romania in NCM (or place newly purchased fighters there if needed) so you have maximum scramble protection for those transports you place in SZ 100. Start racing any surviving units from France/Normandy back east. Move units from Norway to Finland. Move inf from Bulgaria back to Romania. Use transport in Baltic to get 2 inf or 1 inf/1 art to Norway from either Germany or W Germany, wherever you have them.
G3 - If you feel confident enough, you can attack now. Force in Finland hits Karelia, force in Poland hits Baltic States, force in Hungary hits E Poland, force in Romania hits Bessarabia and 3 transports take 3 inf, 2 art, 1 tank to Caucasus. ALso, the tanks/mechs in Berlin can go to Baltic States or E Poland at your discretion. When you hit Russia in so many fronts, they won’t know where is best to defend or try to counterattack. Russia usually still won’t have enough to really be able to make a stand. A strong counterattack in one section could wipe that German force out, but leave them too week everywhere else. If they try to spread their defence over the whole front, it will be too weak.
However, if you like you can simply build more and attack on G4. That gives Russia one more round of buying units, but Germany will have much more. More than likely, Germany will capture Leningrad and the Ukraine on the next round, possibly even Stalingrad, but that one is a little “iffy” and really depends on what Russia does.
Like I said, this strategy has led to the fall of Russia every time. However, it does NOT necessarily lead to an overall German victory every time. In one game, they played a KGF strategy and the USA and UK overwhelmed me in the west even while I was pounding Moscow. It does no good to capture an enemy’s capital while losing your own. By the time I took Moscow and tried to race my armor back to save Berlin, it was too late.
I have tried this plan and Russia falls every time. They just can’t seem to cope with all those units coming out of Romania plus hits on other fronts. Usually don’t declare war on USSR unitl G3 or 4.
G1 - buy Major IC for Romania. Take Paris, Normandy, Yugoslavia and maybe Southern France in combat. Kill as much Royal navy as possible with Luftwaffe and German navy. NCM to Finland and Bulgaria. Move inf/art from Germany to Poland and Hungary. Use transport in Baltic to move 2 inf or 1 inf/1art to Norway.
G2 - buy Airbase for Romania, 3 transports, 3 art, 3 inf and possibly a fighter or two. Any money left should go toward tanks/mechs for Berlin IC. If any Royal Navy survived, try to get it if possible. Try to get at least 3 fighters to Romania in NCM (or place newly purchased fighters there if needed) so you have maximum scramble protection for those transports you place in SZ 100. Start racing any surviving units from France/Normandy back east. Move units from Norway to Finland. Move inf from Bulgaria back to Romania. Use transport in Baltic to get 2 inf or 1 inf/1 art to Norway from either Germany or W Germany, wherever you have them.
G3 - If you feel confident enough, you can attack now. Force in Finland hits Karelia, force in Poland hits Baltic States, force in Hungary hits E Poland, force in Romania hits Bessarabia and 3 transports take 3 inf, 2 art, 1 tank to Caucasus. ALso, the tanks/mechs in Berlin can go to Baltic States or E Poland at your discretion. When you hit Russia in so many fronts, they won’t know where is best to defend or try to counterattack. Russia usually still won’t have enough to really be able to make a stand. A strong counterattack in one section could wipe that German force out, but leave them too week everywhere else. If they try to spread their defence over the whole front, it will be too weak.
However, if you like you can simply build more and attack on G4. That gives Russia one more round of buying units, but Germany will have much more. More than likely, Germany will capture Leningrad and the Ukraine on the next round, possibly even Stalingrad, but that one is a little “iffy” and really depends on what Russia does.
Like I said, this strategy has led to the fall of Russia every time. However, it does NOT necessarily lead to an overall German victory every time. In one game, they played a KGF strategy and the USA and UK overwhelmed me in the west even while I was pounding Moscow. It does no good to capture an enemy’s capital while losing your own. By the time I took Moscow and tried to race my armor back to save Berlin, it was too late.
I was actually going to bring up this strategy, I have never tried it in a real game yet but I felt like it would work very well. The only thing I do different then you is I build a destroyer with those transports as well for the extra security from the Russian “airforce.” Being able to drop 6 units at a time over 3 high value territories all while pushing the front just seems like hell for Russia.
I have tried this plan and Russia falls every time. They just can’t seem to cope with all those units coming out of Romania plus hits on other fronts. Usually don’t declare war on USSR unitl G3 or 4.
G1 - buy Major IC for Romania. Take Paris, Normandy, Yugoslavia and maybe Southern France in combat. Kill as much Royal navy as possible with Luftwaffe and German navy. NCM to Finland and Bulgaria. Move inf/art from Germany to Poland and Hungary. Use transport in Baltic to move 2 inf or 1 inf/1art to Norway.
G2 - buy Airbase for Romania, 3 transports, 3 art, 3 inf and possibly a fighter or two. Any money left should go toward tanks/mechs for Berlin IC. If any Royal Navy survived, try to get it if possible. Try to get at least 3 fighters to Romania in NCM (or place newly purchased fighters there if needed) so you have maximum scramble protection for those transports you place in SZ 100. Start racing any surviving units from France/Normandy back east. Move units from Norway to Finland. Move inf from Bulgaria back to Romania. Use transport in Baltic to get 2 inf or 1 inf/1 art to Norway from either Germany or W Germany, wherever you have them.
G3 - If you feel confident enough, you can attack now. Force in Finland hits Karelia, force in Poland hits Baltic States, force in Hungary hits E Poland, force in Romania hits Bessarabia and 3 transports take 3 inf, 2 art, 1 tank to Caucasus. ALso, the tanks/mechs in Berlin can go to Baltic States or E Poland at your discretion. When you hit Russia in so many fronts, they won’t know where is best to defend or try to counterattack. Russia usually still won’t have enough to really be able to make a stand. A strong counterattack in one section could wipe that German force out, but leave them too week everywhere else. If they try to spread their defence over the whole front, it will be too weak.
However, if you like you can simply build more and attack on G4. That gives Russia one more round of buying units, but Germany will have much more. More than likely, Germany will capture Leningrad and the Ukraine on the next round, possibly even Stalingrad, but that one is a little “iffy” and really depends on what Russia does.
Like I said, this strategy has led to the fall of Russia every time. However, it does NOT necessarily lead to an overall German victory every time. In one game, they played a KGF strategy and the USA and UK overwhelmed me in the west even while I was pounding Moscow. It does no good to capture an enemy’s capital while losing your own. By the time I took Moscow and tried to race my armor back to save Berlin, it was too late.
The longer you wait on russia, the harder the game will be for axis. If you wait untill G4 or burn 30 ipcs on a major in rom, thenit will require more and more money to put russia down. If you buy the major, that signals to UK that you are not going to sealion. UK will either scramble where ever it can do the most damage, or save his air to decimate the italians on his turn.
On russia, because you have 30ipcs less of units, russia can quickly gain an advantage on defense. If you attack G4, then you wont be in moscow untill G8 which gives russia enough time to bring home the siberia stack and for the us/uk to shuffle planes in.
The big thing with discussing and German strategy is always what is Japan doing? If Japan went for an early DoW on the Western Allies, then this factory seems like a prime target for SBR raids from the US or UK, especially if the US went the 4 Bomber route on their first turn if they recognize this as your big play for the game.
Most German plans in the east call for walking into Moscow G5 or G6, but here you’re positing that you may not even attack until G4 since you have to spend time building up the Black Sea navy. This doesn’t sound like it will get you into Moscow any faster than traditional methods, but that wasn’t promised in the OP anyway.
I have tried this plan and Russia falls every time. They just can’t seem to cope with all those units coming out of Romania plus hits on other fronts. Usually don’t declare war on USSR unitl G3 or 4.
G1 - buy Major IC for Romania. Take Paris, Normandy, Yugoslavia and maybe Southern France in combat. Kill as much Royal navy as possible with Luftwaffe and German navy. NCM to Finland and Bulgaria. Move inf/art from Germany to Poland and Hungary. Use transport in Baltic to move 2 inf or 1 inf/1art to Norway.
G2 - buy Airbase for Romania, 3 transports, 3 art, 3 inf and possibly a fighter or two. Any money left should go toward tanks/mechs for Berlin IC. If any Royal Navy survived, try to get it if possible. Try to get at least 3 fighters to Romania in NCM (or place newly purchased fighters there if needed) so you have maximum scramble protection for those transports you place in SZ 100. Start racing any surviving units from France/Normandy back east. Move units from Norway to Finland. Move inf from Bulgaria back to Romania. Use transport in Baltic to get 2 inf or 1 inf/1 art to Norway from either Germany or W Germany, wherever you have them.
G3 - If you feel confident enough, you can attack now. Force in Finland hits Karelia, force in Poland hits Baltic States, force in Hungary hits E Poland, force in Romania hits Bessarabia and 3 transports take 3 inf, 2 art, 1 tank to Caucasus. ALso, the tanks/mechs in Berlin can go to Baltic States or E Poland at your discretion. When you hit Russia in so many fronts, they won’t know where is best to defend or try to counterattack. Russia usually still won’t have enough to really be able to make a stand. A strong counterattack in one section could wipe that German force out, but leave them too week everywhere else. If they try to spread their defence over the whole front, it will be too weak.
However, if you like you can simply build more and attack on G4. That gives Russia one more round of buying units, but Germany will have much more. More than likely, Germany will capture Leningrad and the Ukraine on the next round, possibly even Stalingrad, but that one is a little “iffy” and really depends on what Russia does.
Like I said, this strategy has led to the fall of Russia every time. However, it does NOT necessarily lead to an overall German victory every time. In one game, they played a KGF strategy and the USA and UK overwhelmed me in the west even while I was pounding Moscow. It does no good to capture an enemy’s capital while losing your own. By the time I took Moscow and tried to race my armor back to save Berlin, it was too late.
I used to run this strat pretty often and one thing I would add is to be very wary of UK in the med. If I see a factory going down in Romania, the leftover planes from Taranto are landing in Syria and primed to strike at the Black Sea fleet. The 3 Russian planes + UK’s contribution from the med (airbase in Egypt post round 1) means you either have to build a pinned in fleet or keep 5ish planes in Romania at all times, greatly hindering your mobility. This added on to the fact that 66 IPCs worth of infrastructure (major+airbase+transports) was just built instead of ground units (22 infantry/16 mechs?) has led me away from this strat. I’m not saying it won’t work, it’s great as a surprise change of pace, but I don’t think it should be relied on exclusively.
I used to run this strat pretty often and one thing I would add is to be very wary of UK in the med. If I see a factory going down in Romania, the leftover planes from Taranto are landing in Syria and primed to strike at the Black Sea fleet. The 3 Russian planes + UK’s contribution from the med (airbase in Egypt post round 1) means you either have to build a pinned in fleet or keep 5ish planes in Romania at all times, greatly hindering your mobility. This added on to the fact that 66 IPCs worth of infrastructure (major+airbase+transports) was just built instead of ground units (22 infantry/16 mechs?) has led me away from this strat. I’m not saying it won’t work, it’s great as a surprise change of pace, but I don’t think it should be relied on exclusively.
Your planes wont make it to the black sea from Syria. Only the bomber could and he would have to land somewhere in Russia, which he cant because Russia would not be at war yet.
I agree with Ziggurat. I didn’t realize that Germany had such an issue with the Soviets that it would require 66 IPC to be spent on essentially 1 territory. I’m sure it would cause the Soviet player fits. But you still have to capture London or Cairo to win on the Europe map before Novgorod, Rome, or Paris falls.
Some questions I have:
Does this help speed up the clock enough where US isn’t making beachheads that UK is landing on top of? Doesn’t UK have carte blanche to build an IC in Egypt on UK1? Another in Persia UK2? I think I would try to goad Germany into a Sealion by scrambling everywhere and hitting the Italians. Can you imagine USSR licking his chops if Germany spends 0 IPC on troops for 2 rounds, puts a shiny new IC on the front lines, and then turns to face west? :-D
Japan is doing… what?
For the people on here, has this worked against you? Has it worked against you twice? What is the lesson to be learned from playing against it?
I used to run this strat pretty often and one thing I would add is to be very wary of UK in the med. If I see a factory going down in Romania, the leftover planes from Taranto are landing in Syria and primed to strike at the Black Sea fleet. The 3 Russian planes + UK’s contribution from the med (airbase in Egypt post round 1) means you either have to build a pinned in fleet or keep 5ish planes in Romania at all times, greatly hindering your mobility. This added on to the fact that 66 IPCs worth of infrastructure (major+airbase+transports) was just built instead of ground units (22 infantry/16 mechs?) has led me away from this strat. I’m not saying it won’t work, it’s great as a surprise change of pace, but I don’t think it should be relied on exclusively.
Your planes wont make it to the black sea from Syria. Only the bomber could and he would have to land somewhere in Russia, which he cant because Russia would not be at war yet.
Jazzy,
Planes can fly over the Dardanelles. Everything you land in Syria (or Cyprus) can attack SZ 100 and make it back to their starting locations. Once I realized this, I quickly abandoned the strat :P. I was previously putting an airbase down in Greece to protect 100 as well as the med, but the timing gets thrown off with an active UK.
Yeah, there are a couple of conditions to this strategy. First, Japan has to wait as long as possible before attacking the Western Allies to keep USA out of the war as long as possible. So, they chew up China for 3 rounds then pounce on all the Western Allied possessions. Yeah, it takes Japan longer to start getting real money, but then they also have more stuff to go after the Allies with. Also, it depends on what USA does when they enter the war. If they go KJF, then it will be pretty good for Germany but rough for Japan. Russia simply can’t handle approaches on so many fronts at the same time so you will beat them all the way back to Moscow. UK will take some time trying to rebuild a navy so they can move troops over to Europe.
You are right that the Major IC purchase does tip your hand at No Sealion, so UK can build more offensively. Also, it gets kind of rough on Italy as UK pretty much has their way with them. The thing is with any luck Germany will be able to take out Russia in time before UK gets too strong or any US presence is felt too much. If the US can neutralize Japan early enough, it could cause real problems for you in Europe, especially if anything goes wrong in your march to Moscow.
If they decide on KGF, then you are probably screwed and this ends up being a bad strategy. Either you will be focusing so much on Russia that you won’t properly defend Europe or you will start spending money defending Europe but your Russian offensive will start to run out of steam too soon.
The first time I tried this, it was a surprise so it worked very well. The second time, Russia thought they could handle it better with counter attacks. They came close but not quite and this meant less defense when I did get to Moscow. The last time was the KGF strategy which totally screwed me.
Thank you! I had a feeling that Japan needed to wait. And the difficulty I saw with that, that UKP and ANZAC are able to steady themselves enough where Japan isn’t getting an early Pacific win and freeing the US up to start landing in Africa, Europe, and Norway, seems to be the same difficulty that presents itself in reality.
Has anybody gone early as Japan with this strategy?
my last game I did build the major in rumania on G2 (should have done it G1) (saved 30 on G1) and built 18 mechs .
I planned to wait with japanese war, because then I would get more time against ussr. my plan was to build 10 mechs in rumania on g3-5, use italian canopener to force ussr to retreat to moscow, and get the middle east.
USA responded with building max against europe, to force germany to build in west, and make the investment a bad one.
the result was that I was able to build around 20 mechs for g3-5.
I was planning for japan to hit on J4, luckily, UK and anzak attacked on turn 2 (expecting a J3 attack). I said “thank you” and took all the moneyislands, indochina, and didn’t declare on US (getting 10 IPC for peace, and ensuring US could not move until US4). making the first possible US landing on US5.
I missplayed alittle bit, but ended up with taking cauc+stalingrad+north persia around g6/g7. and had at that point higher production than the combined allied. (japan was had taken china, and most of east russia, UK had left india, to retake middle east, and to avoid getting killed by japan. Japan had sendt a carriertastforce with transport to west indian sea, threathening egypt and south africa, and started to land in central africa. luftwaffe was more than 22 planes strong, but kriegsmarine was gone, and norway was lost, but leningrad, stalingrad, and rostov had german minors producing, while italians where producing in ukraine, all builing enough to keep russia from leaving moscow in force, while sending as much as possible toward the middle east)
I think that your tactic of waiting until G2 probably helps, no? UK can’t commit to offense with the Sealion threat still being real. And that probably keeps him from scrambling. And leaves you with options, but at the cost of one turn of no production out of that IC if you do eventually drop it. I think there’s a compelling case to wait like you did. I think I actually see more value in this than in G1 because of the value that it gives in possibly allowing Italy some breathing room, while leaving the option open for punishing UK if they get too uppity too early.
The first time I tried this, it was a surprise so it worked very well. The second time, Russia thought they could handle it better with counter attacks. They came close but not quite and this meant less defense when I did get to Moscow. The last time was the KGF strategy which totally screwed me.
This corroborates Fortress’ point. If you start this G1 then the Allies have no reason not to go full-out KGF since you are pretty much committed to having your plan play out.
I was planning for japan to hit on J4, luckily, UK and anzak attacked on turn 2 (expecting a J3 attack). I said “thank you” and took all the moneyislands, indochina, and didn’t declare on US (getting 10 IPC for peace, and ensuring US could not move until US4). making the first possible US landing on US5.
I’m glad to hear somebody say this. I’ve seen in more than one thread people saying the Allies should do a turn 2 DOW on Japan in basically every circumstance, which sounded insane to me for precisely this reason. You guarantee that the US can’t make any attacks in Europe until US5 and they can’t support you in the Pacific until US4- giving Japan a free pass for two turns with little likelihood of putting any serious crimp in their plans unless for some reason they are spread out all over the place.
