True, true. I’d rather get the old games before getting new ones. But yeah, I’d like a Kursk and Stalingrad game in the future, maybe even naval battles like Leyte Gulf.
Any new rules? any big changes to how the game is played?
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Do you have a map to reference?
I do hope Sinai isn’t still in Palestine.
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It is Between Egypt and Palestine. The “triangle” portion of land.
Sorry can’t show the map or anything yet.
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The important thing is that it should be part of Egypt (British), not Palestine (Turkish). This is a mistake every A&A game to date has made, and I was hoping it had finally been ironed out.
The Suez canal runs THROUGH EGYPT, not between Egypt and Palestine.
Also, be careful about the borders of Italian Libya and Egypt which were different from 1939.
http://unimaps.com/africa1914/index.html
The Turkey-Russia border in the Caucasus also changed.
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It is part of Egypt and the border changes for Italy don’t appear on the map ( only strip of land showing)
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At last! I had visions of Turkey having joint control of the Suez Canal.
Slowly, slowly, we get there.
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Also, with regard to air combat…
Planes fight in aerial combat until one side is defeated or retreats. Fighters, Zeppelins, and Bombers can be scrambled once this is completed the side with planes provides aerial spotting for one round for qualifying land units ( artillery, railguns) where all these units fight at +1 ( this can be defender or attacker).
Planes also roll and hit land units and land units can now hit air units ( the player would hardly choose planes for loses in any event)
In naval combat all planes and ships just fight together, but planes with metal frame technology can participate in sea combat or Zeppelins.
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Mmmm, I was thinking about fighters raiding a tt on their own to knock out enemy air power, then returning home.
It makes sense that they have to undergo fire from enemy ground units, otherwise they’d just massacre them. Also relevant if accompanying bombers to targets.
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Mmmm, I was thinking about fighters raiding a tt on their own to knock out enemy air power,
Realistic but is busts the game because players with larger air forces will bully and easily defeat poorer nations straight away and they don’t get the ability to effect air power on their turn.
Air planes are expensive and to allow hordes of “plane hunters” to wipe them out makes the game less fun. Of course they can retreat after a round, but it would be too commonplace to do this.
Planes were used in conjunction with land combat, rather than sending over fighters in a quiet area where no land combat occurs.
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Air power in this game should really be an after thought, given how flimsy they were and how new most of the technology was. Planes barley had the ability to shoot through their own propellers by the end of the war their impact was anecdotal at best. The best use for planes would be to provide an attack in a territory like any other unit, however if the enemy had planes present as well then a separate battle would have to be resolved between the two opposing air forces (with their attacks being rolled against eachother and nothing else) until one side is destroyed or decides to retreat. Then the aircraft could contribute its attacks to the larger land battle going on.
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That is exactly how air combat works, with surviving planes providing aerial spotting for artillery and railguns.
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@Imperious:
with surviving planes providing aerial spotting for artillery and railguns.
But I think this is too in-depth for what Larry is planning and wouldn’t be in this game. Also, I think that is too in depth of a task for aircraft period. They should be a stand alone unit with their own attacks, not just another piece to “bump” this or that thing.
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In the Great War, planes didn’t have substantial effect against land units. It wasn’t till they got interrupter gear that allowed them to even shoot. Before that, they just had pistols and shot at other pilots as they went by on a fluke or dropped grenades personally ( literally had a small bomb and the pilot would throw it out of the plane) They fought in Dogfights while land units fought land units. They helped as forward observers to direct artillery fire much like Balloons did in the Civil War. Go check it out. They are not “tactical bombers” or “dive-bombers” etc.
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I have a fairly simple idea for an implementation of rail movement:
Each country has a certain amount of strategic movement points (perhaps equal to, or a fraction of their IPC). During the non-combat movement phase a player can move units into any territory owned at the start of their turn. Strategic rail movement cannot result in a unit ending in a contested territory.
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This is basically what I’ve been advocating for years. I don’t even have limited movement points, railways could shift a lot of materiel. Of course the movement can only be between connected land tts, but you forgot to mention that, didn’t you?
I have a fairly simple idea for an implementation of rail movement:
Each country has a certain amount of strategic movement points (perhaps equal to, or a fraction of their IPC). During the non-combat movement phase a player can move units into any territory owned at the start of their turn. Strategic rail movement cannot result in a unit ending in a contested territory.
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Rail movement could much more easily be achieved by
“infinite non-combat movement amongst friendly territories not bordered by enemy controlled territory”
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Right. In 6 month turns the entire army could be moved by rail, no limits.
When Russia falls Germany needs to run her army to finish off France and to say " hey they can only move 10 men" would entail too many allied victories.
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I’m wondering how the victory conditions will work in this game. The Great War wasn’t like WW2 with capitals falling to enemies advances. Hell, Germany taking Pairs should be a major event in this game, not turn one necessity. As far as I can tell there were only like 3 enemy capitals that ever actually ever taking, Belgrade, Brussels, and I think Bucharest. Is this game going to have a mechanic to represent war weariness, or the blockade, or some other way of taking down the Central Powers that doesn’t involve storming into Berlin and Vienna?
P.E. (post-edit)
I did forget one, Podgorica was also occupied. -
@Imperious:
Right. In 6 month turns the entire army could be moved by rail, no limits.
When Russia falls Germany needs to run her army to finish off France and to say " hey they can only move 10 men" would entail too many allied victories.
Absolutely. If Larry’s game doesn’t have rail movement, the Central Powers will not be able to fight effectively on both fronts. Even if the Schleiffen plan works, they won’t be able to switch units to the east in time to save central Europe from the Russians.
Mind you, I’ve been saying the same thing about the A&A WWII games for years, to no effect.
The same principle applies if there is ever an A&A Civil War game: there is an absolute break in the nature of warfare after rail transport becomes available. In essence, set piece Napoleonic battles are no longer decisive, as each side can fill up the gaps in its front line faster than the enemy can exploit any victory. It becomes a war of attrition.
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This is what I meant by the need for a political dimension to the game.
There should be a morale/revolution/disorder chart as well as the national income tracker.
Various factors push a nation further along the track to revolution; the general trend should be more “minus” factors than “positive”, so that the lifespan of the war is finite - ultimately the war will collapse under its own weight. It becomes a matter of who can survive the longest, not who can capture the enemy crown jewels.
Factors?
Lose your capital: -5
Lose any other starting tt: -3
Lose any other tt: -1
Lose control of one of your convoy zones: - <value of=“” the=“” cz=“”>(representing food shortages)
Lose a battle in which more than 5 of your units are destroyed: -3
Win a battle in which more than 5 of your units are destroyed: -1
(dog fights count towards these unit totals)Capture an enemy (not minor nations) capital: +5
Capture any other enemy (not minor nations) tt: +1
Suffer a bombing raid on your capital: -3 (once only)
Suffer one of your dreadnoughts destroyed: -2
What else?
Consequences of reaching the targets? Next post.
I’m wondering how the victory conditions will work in this game. The Great War wasn’t like WW2 with capitals falling to enemies advances. Hell, Germany taking Pairs should be a major event in this game, not turn one necessity. As far as I can tell there were only like 3 enemy capitals that ever actually ever taking, Belgrade, Brussels, and I think Bucharest. Is this game going to have a mechanic to represent war weariness, or the blockade, or some other way of taking down the Central Powers that doesn’t involve storming into Berlin and Vienna?
P.E. (post-edit)
I did forget one, Podgorica was also occupied.</value> -
Throwing out some ideas for Empires falling into Revolution.
Roll a dice for each home area still held that has units. On a roll of X that area mutinies and joins the revolution. Replace all units there with Red units.
Red units are controlled by the Alliance opposed to the relevant Empire. They can only operate within the original tt of that Empire. They may attack “White” units at will, but can only recruit new infantry and cavalry units.
Surviving units of the Empire (“Whites”) are still controlled by the original player. They can fight the Reds and any enemy units at will. They too cannot build new mechanical units.
Extra: “Blacks”
If an area has an ethnic majority (i.e of a nationality other than the main one of the Empire, e.g. Ireland, Poland, Transylvania) X requires a lower roll; however if the roll is for revolution, the units there are replaced by “Black” nationalist units. These are not controlled by anyone, but may be attacked.
Possible: Roll for every area: if there are no units in the tt and there is a revolt place one relevant (Red or Black) infantry there.
Only when all Reds have been eliminated is the revolution over and the Empire back to normal. Original Allies are free to intervene and help put down the Reds.
The game is won when all Empires of one side are either defeated (capital occupied) or in Revolution.
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