Assassination of John F. Kennedy

[ABWorsham4]

I support a single shooter also, strange that one of the most famous shootings was done by a lower quality WW2 rifle.

[ABWorsham4]

Talked to my fifth grade son, who is eleven, I was upset to find out that his home room class which is a Social Studies/ History class not once brought up the 50th anniversary of JFK assassination. We live 40 miles from Dallas, from many different angles its our history.

I decided before having children that I would be their first line of defense in teaching them.

[Gargantua]

1 shooter,  or 3 shooters,  Oswald or not Oswald, is irrelevant.

The real question is WHY JFK was shot.  That then answers the rest of the questions.

I’ve done alot of research on this subject, watched dozens of documentaries, and read several books, with many different perspectives.  There’s one item in particular however… that stands out to me as the most legitimate motive, with the most legitimate supporting evidence.

**The Day after Kennedy’s Burial, LBJ issued executive order #273 which reversed Kennedy’s order # 263  **(#263 was to abstain from taking action in Vietnam).

It was the first order LBJ issued as president, and in simpler terms - began the war in Vietnam.

---

I know that many of you understand that the arms industry in North America is a trillion dollar industry.
But did you know that prior to his death JFK consistently maintained the stance that he was not going to get into the conflict in Vietnam?  This was non-negotiable.

With trillions of dollars of interests at stake, over many vested groups, coupled with a real fear of communist “domino effect”, I believe that a small group of people essentially manufactured a coup, and made it look more like a simple and rogue assassination.  Some of these people (perhaps even Oswald) were probably tricked in the wrongful belief that somehow what they were doing was the right/patriotic thing to do.

That’s the why as I see it.  As for the who… well, that’s alot more complicated.

[Flashman]

I go with the lone gunman Oswald.

The only thing that isn’t clear to me is how the first bullet could pass through human flesh 5 times and remain practically undamaged, while the third apparently fragmented on first impact.

Different bullet types = different assassins?

The George Hickey theory is interesting for this reason, but surely people would have seen this happen.

[frimmel]

I agree with Garg. LBJ’s reversal of JFK’s stance on 'Nam more than anything else says conspiracy and coup. I tend to think any suggestion that Oswald is anything other than a fall guy is simply a refusal to look at it as a coup. Straight up denial. (No offense single shooter siders.)

I think back to when I was first learning the outline of the history as a little kid and how confused I was that Oswald was killed so soon after and while in police custody. I remember that just seeming wrong and not the “it’s wrong to hurt people wrong” but the sort of wrong it takes you years to even learn how to ask questions and think about.

[Flashman]

On the other hand, all these conspiracy theories simply give Americans a sense of security in that they cannot accept that their President was killed by a lone geek; it must have been an alliance between the CIA, the Mafia, the Cubans, the Soviets, the Mexicans, the Vatican, the arms manufacturers, the Disney Corporation, Uncle Tom Cobley & all.

Oswald did it: case closed.

Get over it.

[gamerman01]

@Flashman:

On the other hand, all these conspiracy theories simply give Americans a sense of security in that they cannot accept that their President was killed by a lone geek

Nonsense

[Jermofoot]

Lone gunman.  Even if you think Oswald didn’t act alone, he was clearly all/part of it.

There is a lot of speculation and dubious things people have purported over the years - the movie “JFK”, from which many have derived most of what they “know” from that event, stretches a lot of truth and relies on conjecture.  I think a lot of it clouds the truth and we get these conspiracies and it kills me we are more critical of actual evidence than the guesswork so many put faith in.

@Gargantua:

@frimmel:

Wasn’t there a documentary where they rolled out a bunch of scout snipers and tried to recreate the shot from the book depository and none of them could do it?

It wasn’t “the” shot they recreated, but rather “the shots”, and it was something ridiculous like 5 shots in 6 seconds.  Which is impossible with the rifle that was used.

And then there’s the one bullet theorum which is dubious.

The Warren Commission did extensive testing on the rifle that was used (matched ballistically), and found that it was highly accurate.  In testing, they were even able to improve on Oswald’s suspected time.  There was old evidence (as in years old) that pointed to Oswald not being a great shot in his marksmanship, but that doesn’t really hold much with me.  Too many variables on something that isn’t hard evidence, and all of the evidence we do have clearly indicates he fired at Kennedy.

Ballistic tests also confirm the one bullet theory, and any of the “magic bullet” distraction that has been voiced has been propped up on incorrect assumptions and conjecture.

Multiple eye-witness accounts have been corroborated that there were no shooters on the grassy knoll, just a minority of people (the majority agreeing on 3 shots from the book depository) reportedly hearing a shot from that direction, which doesn’t all match the ballistic evidence or the trajectories derived from the wounds of the victims.

Oswald had a motive, corroborating evidence from various sources, and already tried to assassinate another government official.

Now there isn’t evidence of every little detail, but enough to come to a solid conclusion, I feel.  Although we do seem to enjoy our ghost stories….

[Jermofoot]

@Flashman:

On the other hand, all these conspiracy theories simply give Americans a sense of security in that they cannot accept that their President was killed by a lone geek; it must have been an alliance between the CIA, the Mafia, the Cubans, the Soviets, the Mexicans, the Vatican, the arms manufacturers, the Disney Corporation, Uncle Tom Cobley & all.

Oswald did it: case closed.

Get over it.

I didn’t see your comment before I posted mine.  I agree this is a big problem in the US politically, critically (as in thinking), and progressively (as in, we aren’t getting things done due to this malarkey).

I have recently found so many of my coworkers are heavily into conspiracy theories - so heavily, they take it as gospel and simple news reporting is “them” pulling the wool over everyone else’s eyes.  I just want to slap some sense into these otherwise very smart and capable people.  I don’t know if it’s paranoia, fear, unresolved issues or what - but the political climate these days have devolved into such a dependency on conspiracy and extremely far-fetched and unsupported BS, that I don’t know what to think of the future.  I am honestly surprised that from the things I’ve seen people rant and rave about that someone hasn’t tried the same with the current president.

Occam’s razor.  Use it.

[Emperor_Taiki]

@Gargantua:

1 shooter,  or 3 shooters,  Oswald or not Oswald, is irrelevant.

The real question is WHY JFK was shot.  That then answers the rest of the questions.

I’ve done alot of research on this subject, watched dozens of documentaries, and read several books, with many different perspectives.  There’s one item in particular however… that stands out to me as the most legitimate motive, with the most legitimate supporting evidence.

**The Day after Kennedy’s Burial, LBJ issued executive order #273 which reversed Kennedy’s order # 263  **(#263 was to abstain from taking action in Vietnam).

It was the first order LBJ issued as president, and in simpler terms - began the war in Vietnam.

---

I know that many of you understand that the arms industry in North America is a trillion dollar industry.
But did you know that prior to his death JFK consistently maintained the stance that he was not going to get into the conflict in Vietnam?  This was non-negotiable.

With trillions of dollars of interests at stake, over many vested groups, coupled with a real fear of communist “domino effect”, I believe that a small group of people essentially manufactured a coup, and made it look more like a simple and rogue assassination.  Some of these people (perhaps even Oswald) were probably tricked in the wrongful belief that somehow what they were doing was the right/patriotic thing to do.

That’s the why as I see it.  As for the who… well, that’s alot more complicated.

Gargantua is absolutely correct.

Read Rush to Judgement by Mark Lane. Mark Lane exposed the Warren Commission as a fraud in 64’, why does anyone believe it fifty year later? Oswald scored a 191 on his marine rifle qualification, that is two points above FAILING. His sergeant said he was a horrible shot aswell. Stranger than the second bullet that caused seven wounds, is the first bullet that hit a bystander way up the road, so according the to Warren Commission Oswald must have not even been aiming at Kennedy’s car for the first shot. N one saw Oswald shoot the president or put him anywhere near the sixth floor, rather he was found by a police officer a minute after Kennedy drove by buying a coke on the second floor. He was more thirsty than commie.

[Flashman]

It was still Oswald’s gun.

It had his fingerprints on it.

He was a trained marksman.

He was seen bringing a package of “curtain rods” to work that morning.

He went on the run afterwards, shooting a policeman dead in the process - the behaviour of an innocent man?

He was desperate to impress the Communist world he felt had rejected him.

He left his wedding ring at home that morning, evidently he didn’t expect to return home.

The President is driving past, and he’s downstairs getting a Coke?

Wake up.

[Jermofoot]

@Emperor_Taiki:

Read Rush to Judgement by Mark Lane. Mark Lane exposed the Warren Commission as a fraud in 64’, why does anyone believe it fifty year later? Oswald scored a 191 on his marine rifle qualification, that is two points above FAILING. His sergeant said he was a horrible shot aswell. Stranger than the second bullet that caused seven wounds, is the first bullet that hit a bystander way up the road, so according the to Warren Commission Oswald must have not even been aiming at Kennedy’s car for the first shot. N one saw Oswald shoot the president or put him anywhere near the sixth floor, rather he was found by a police officer a minute after Kennedy drove by buying a coke on the second floor. He was more thirsty than commie.

-Scoring a 191 was two points above the minimum qualification as a marksman, not for failing.  That also was his score from almost 5 years earlier with a different weapon.  That is not hard evidence to preclude Oswald.  Either way, it took him 3 shots to complete his goal.  A skilled shooter would have taken 1.

-The bystander was not hit by a bullet, but fragments from a ricochet of the pavement/concrete.  That indicates a miss, and the Warren Commission did not say anything about Oswald not aiming for the President.

-Eye witnesses did put him at the 6th floor, and missing.  2 minutes after the assassination, a coworker saw him on the 2nd floor - the police officer was on the first floor with Oswald’s supervisor and let him by.  He would go on to leave the building, be reported missing by his supervisor, and eventually shoot an officer that had identified him as the suspected assassin (as Flashman pointed out - he also attempted to do the same with the officer that caught him in the theater).

[Emperor_Taiki]

-Military terms are generally purposefully misleading so I understand how marksmen might sound good but it is actually the lowest qualification in the Marine Corp for rifle. If Oswald has gotten below 190 he would not have qualified, he would have failed.  He was a radarman, not infantry. I have a friend who is a Marine, who qualified expert and served in a scout sniper platoon. He generally dosn’t have any opinions on politics or history, but he says no human could do what the Warren Commission claims Oswald did. If you can show where Oswald trained to become a crack shot after his time in the marines, I’d be interested.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marksmanship_Badge_(United_States)

-its a long way up the road for a fragment to travel. Without any data I could see it either way, so we’ll just say your right that it hit by the car and flew up the road hitting the bystander.

-Whats the name on the eye witnesses you are referring too? I know there is at least one person who did say they saw Oswald from the street, I don’t consider that clear IDing of Oswald though since its too far away, plus other witnesses saw other men with rifles near the top of the Book Depository building, with descriptions that differed radically from that of Oswald(including a black guy, its Texas though so maybe they were just being racist). I have never heard of anyone within the Book Depository building IDing Oswald as anywhere but the second or first floor at the time of the shooting.
http://www.giljesus.com/jfk/lunchroom_encounter.htm

If you care to know, my alternative theory to the “Oswald alone Theory” is it was the the National Security State http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Act_of_1947 . 5% of JFK assassination witnesses died unnaturally in the 14 years following the assassination. The chance of this happening by chance is 1 in 700 million trillion. Furthermore the most deaths occurred during the two years of major government investigations into the the assassination, 1964 and 1977. http://archive.lewrockwell.com/orig14/charnin1.1.1.html
Only the National Security State has the power to kill the president and make sure many of the important witnesses have “unfortunate accicidents”.

[ABWorsham4]

@rjpeters70:

I think it’s fascinating seeing the media brou-ha-ha claim that Dallas’ right-wing views were what killed Kennedy, and how they still have to pay penance for that to this day.  They usually fairy dust over the fact that Oswald was a raging Marxist who went to the Soviet Union to train…Â

Right wing indeed.Â

very true, as a Texan, I take some of the media attempts to tag Dallas with JFKs death.

[Gargantua]

@rjpeters70:

I think it’s fascinating seeing the media brou-ha-ha claim that Dallas’ right-wing views were what killed Kennedy, and how they still have to pay penance for that to this day.  They usually fairy dust over the fact that Oswald was a raging Marxist who went to the Soviet Union to train…

Right wing indeed.

But he was a double, triple, quadruple secret agent man!

Definitely part of the right wing conspiracy!