I had to rewrite it. Oh well, I made it more brief.
Delta +1
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THE DIPLOMACY PHASE
In the “diplomacy phase” (the final phase of the turn sequence) any nation may negotiate with a strict neutral in order to occupy them.
During the diplomacy phase, you may choose 1 strict neutral to negotiate with, and pay $1 per infantry represented in that territories standing army (Sweden =$6, Turkey=$8 etc.). That payment allows a diplomacy roll of 1d6, for an opportunity to roll a 6. If successful, you immediately occupy that territory, and replace it’s standing army with your own troops. If failed, you may try again next turn to roll a 6 free of charge, or pay $5 to improve your chances by 1 on your next diplomacy roll (1d6 to succeed on 5-6, and so forth).
Yea yea. Plus the neutral blocks 5 of them, plus Mongolia is treated as one nation 5
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NEUTRAL BLOCKS
When attacking a strict neutral outright, all other neutrals within that block become pro-opponent.
Here is a list of all the strict neutrals with their IPC value and standing army.
Strict Neutral / IPC Value / Standing Army
South America
Venezuela 2/2
Argentina 2/4
Chile 2/2Europe
Portugal 1/2
Spain 2/6
Switzerland 0/2
Sweden 3/6
Turkey 2/8Africa and the Middle East
Angolia 1/2
Mozambique 1/2
Saudi Arabia 2/2
Afganastan 0/4Mongolia
Olgiy 0/2
Dzavhan 0/1
Tsagaan Olom 0/0
Central Mongolia 0/0
Ulaanbaatar 0/1
Buyant Uhaa 0/2 -
I only have 4 blocks, and I’m not sure how they can get trimmed to 5 without effecting the balance of risk vs. reward. I like your idea of treating Mongolia as 1 territory, but how does that work?
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NEUTRAL BLOCKS
When attacking a strict neutral outright, all other neutrals within that block become pro-opponent.
Here is a list of all the strict neutrals with their IPC value and standing army.
Strict Neutral / IPC Value / Standing Army
South America
Venezuela 2/2
Argentina 2/4
Chile 2/2Europe
Portugal 1/2
Spain 2/6
Switzerland 0/2
Sweden 3/6
Turkey 2/8Africa and the Middle East
Angolia 1/2
Mozambique 1/2
Saudi Arabia 2/2
Afganastan 0/4Mongolia
Olgiy 0/2
Dzavhan 0/1
Tsagaan Olom 0/0
Central Mongolia 0/0
Ulaanbaatar 0/1
Buyant Uhaa 0/2 -
I only have 4 blocks, and I’m not sure how they can get trimmed to 5 without effecting the balance of risk vs. reward. I like your idea of treating Mongolia as 1 territory, but how does that work?
Because Mongolia is one country, you can’t make part of it pro japan, and another part pro Russia. That makes no sense. Second, part of the reason why i feel Mongolia should be off limits, is Japan tampering with it has no reality, as Mongolia was a quasi-soviet state. Third, If Japan is successful at swinging Mongolia, it voids the great rules regarding the non-aggression pact. Mongolia should be a special case, along with perhaps Switzerland ( they would never go pro axis), but just allowing Mongolia a special case is fine too.
The 5 groups should look like this IMO. Turkey has less concern for Europe, and more for Middle East.
Europe
Portugal 1/2
Spain 2/6
Switzerland 0/2
Sweden 3/6South America
Venezuela 2/2
Argentina 2/4
Chile 2/2Africa
Angola 1/2
Mozambique 1/2Middle East
Turkey 2/8
Saudi Arabia 2/2
Afghanistan 0/4Mongolia ( treated at one country- cost is 5)
Olgiy 0/2
Dzavhan 0/1
Tsagaan Olom 0/0
Central Mongolia 0/0
Ulaanbaatar 0/1
Buyant Uhaa 0/2 -
Why pay to negotiate with Turkey when you can just attack it, there’s no risk for attacking the most important strict neutral on the board.
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Because if you convert it you got 8 more infantry that you didn’t have before against Russia.
If you attack it you probably lost about 3-4 infantry, the net gain is about 12
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Werent Angola and Mozambique colonies of Portugal?
Shouldn’t they be in the same block as them? -
Yes they were.
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yea, they should
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So move Portugul into the Africa block?
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Yea.
I think we should work on Vichy France rules next. Easier than tech
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OK, what’s your idea for France? Keep in mind that I’m not interested in making the game easier for the allies, I’m one of a dying breed that still feel that playing the axis is not a walk in the park while eating a piece of cake.
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making it as easy as possible.
When Paris is first occupied by Axis forces, the remaining French areas go into a new disposition.
Vichy
Southern France
Morocco
Algeria
Tunisia
Syria
MadagascarThese are new Vichy French areas and become strict neutrals. ( French Indo-China has it’s own special rules, so not included)
If any player attacks a Vichy area, it has no bearing on the other areas. They fight independently.
French West Africa, French Central Africa, and French Equatorial Africa are considered Free French, which are pro-allies. All French naval units are removed, along with all units located in Normandy. All other French units stay in place and fight as standing armies where they are.
Diplomacy rules are in effect only the cost is number of units in area ( obviously its not printed on the map)
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I think the french naval units were too important of an issue to just brush aside.
On France’s turn, roll a die for each of it’s naval units.
1 - Replace with UK unit
2 - Scuttled
3 - Stays French (roll again next turn)
4 - Stays French (roll again next turn)
5 - Scuttled
6 - Replace with German unitA French ship next to an allied territory will never become German.
A French ship next to an axis territory will never become UK.
If you roll those in either case, they are scuttled.I’d even consider writing some rules to run France as some sort of robotic power that no player controls (it just follows a flowchart for its actions on its turn)
I’d also add some more French naval units (one or two more) if that were the case.Remember, the UK attacked and killed over 1000 French sailors to prevent the French fleet from falling into the hands of the Germans.
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Yea normally i would say the ships are interned at Dakar ( French West Africa) and some rules just like you posted for scuttled ships, etc are made.
I had the intention of making it easy and to not disrupt balance ( Battleship going to axis).
IN any event the French navy had no impact on the war during post defeat. The modeling is supposed to reflect that, but like Xeno games does it could be fun to do the ‘lottery’ thing with the French navy.
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Wasn’t a French Battleship (and possibly others) taken back to New York, repaired and used in the war in the Atlantic?
I know there was also an Aircraft Carriers in the Caribbean Islands at (or near the start) of the war.
As far as the Naval units in Dakar, wouldn’t it make a lot of sense to change those to strict Neutral and attach them to the Territory of French West Africa? Then you could add the unit IPC totals to that terr. for Diplomacy… or make that sea zone a diplomatic entity of its own.
There-by making it a VERY costly affair to persuade (giving the Advantage to the Allies) while at the same time making it a bit of a bigger obstacle attacking players (Needing to eliminate naval units prior to attacking the coast).
Just an idea.
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Yea they had one French warship that fired at Normandy as shore bombardment, but one BB does not represent one unit ( more like 3-4) so it’s below the threshold. The main problem is balance. Some of these can have a dramatic effect for the axis, especially in naval and getting it outside the Baltic. If enough ships turned axis that would help Italy too.
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Well there is no BB on the board anyway… I was just saying that French vessels were converted to serve Allied purposes. As were a number of smaller vessels for Axis purposes.
I understand that having the “turning” of vessels can change the course of the game… isn’t that kind of the idea of creating “Neutral Diplomacy rules”? Creating options and variability?
However, the attempts to turn any such vessels requires an investment of I.P.C. Those investments are also taking away from other units that could be produced with said money. Therefore attempting (or even being successful) does not come without a real cost to other fronts and or strategies. And since both teams have the opportunity to acquire said units (and they are essentially being paid for at a 1:1 basis of cost) you’re not really disturbing the balance of the game. Instead what you’d be doing is adding a good element of variability to the predictability of each game. The real difference for game play would not come from being successful (as essentially you are already “paying” for the units… the real cost to game-play would be the effects of every attempt that was unsuccessful.
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But the benefit is also positional. The allies don’t want axis units running around in the Atlantic able to escape and perform a dash to the Medd, or worst around Cape Horn and mess with UK Indian fleet.
For the axis, they just killed most of the British navy on G1, now another navy turned for UK making that race easier for allies.
Just dealing with the land and air would almost cut out all the funny things that go on in games.
But we just got to playtest the rule that was proposed by Oztea. Thats the bottom line.
also i think the disposition should be final after the first roll…. rolling every turn makes the rules even more subject to glitching.
1 - Replace with UK unit
2 - Scuttled
3 - Stays French (roll again next turn)
4 - Stays French (roll again next turn)
5 - Scuttled
6 - Replace with German unit3 and 4 should be Vichy and that’s it without any further rolling. Vichy naval goto protect Vichy areas or be interned at Dakar ( FWA). If FWA is attacked the fleet is released to fight the enemy, and FWA is not convertible under diplomacy rules ( too much at stake).
FCA and FEA are Free French ( pro allies).
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