As germany u really dont need more than 10-15 tanks, at that point its more efficient to buy mobile with a strong arty stack. Japan needs some tanks, but fodder is a lot more useful since u have 21 flying tanks as punch.
Japan needs tanks if it hopes to threaten Moscow in any meaningful way and to quickly reduce Russia’s income and increase its own. Even if Japan ignores Russia tanks offer the highest defensive value to defend against a counterattack, which is especially important for taking and holding the Burma road from China and the UK Pac. The “flying tanks” can’t land or defend the territories that they help capture.
Tanks purchases still USEFULL :)
you tend to hold territories better when you bleed the enemy down quickly. Tanks are not very cost efficient when one can use inf and air to kill them. Yes they defend well, but are be killed very easily. You never really need to defend any territory since your aim is to bleed the enemy down. For china, u can have a very efficient stack move closer and closer, and eventually, the air and your stack wipes them out. If they try to counter, they will not likely have good counter attacking odds, and u cause him to divide/lose some units that he really can’t replace as well as you. Same case with India. Your india kill is all about the amount of fodder u can throw at it since your planes can very easily get in range. I very rarely buy 3 tanks a turn out of mainland factories as Japan anymore since I cant have nearly the same effect, buy spending 12 instead of 18 for 3 mechs.
you tend to hold territories better when you bleed the enemy down quickly. Tanks are not very cost efficient when one can use inf and air to kill them. Yes they defend well, but are be killed very easily. You never really need to defend any territory since your aim is to bleed the enemy down. For china, u can have a very efficient stack move closer and closer, and eventually, the air and your stack wipes them out. If they try to counter, they will not likely have good counter attacking odds, and u cause him to divide/lose some units that he really can’t replace as well as you. Same case with India. Your india kill is all about the amount of fodder u can throw at it since your planes can very easily get in range. I very rarely buy 3 tanks a turn out of mainland factories as Japan anymore since I cant have nearly the same effect, buy spending 12 instead of 18 for 3 mechs.
You don’t need that many and probably not even 3 every turn. Just enough to quickly get to NW China to open the landing grounds for SBR, or to blitz behind the Russian Siberian stack into all the empty territories they have. Very easy to do if you simply allow Russia to acquire Mongolia via treaty; Tanks will wreak havoc on their ability to guard the Siberian front.
Egg, if you can spare Japanese bombers to go to NW China to SBR Russia, America and the allies aren’t doing their job right
If there’s any unit I would say is “dead” it’d be the cruiser. At least tanks have increased movement to justify a higher cost.
Every unit has its niche and is worthy of purchase in certain situations, even if not very common.
The worth of cruisers and their cost of 12 has been discussed ad naseum in various threads
I’ll have to take a look at those threads. The tank adds more to the game strategically than a unit like the cruiser or tac bomber. Tanks are the cheapest 3 on offense or defense and the 2 movement force your opponent to defend more territories, spreading his forces. Divide and conquer.
Egg, if you can spare Japanese bombers to go to NW China to SBR Russia, America and the allies aren’t doing their job right
Shrug… the Japanese have 20+ planes. The Bombers can be spared, especially when you are speeding up victory on the Europe map. I won’t go as far as to say they should always be replaced if shot down by AA, but they can certainly be sent.
Yeah, it seems like a pretty good strategy actually. With the +2 for damage.
Can’t believe Larry jumped right over +1.
I mean, this is the guy that nerfed heavy bombers all the way down to best of 2 dice :x
@Lieutenant:
I’ll have to take a look at those threads. The tank adds more to the game strategically than a unit like the cruiser or tac bomber. Tanks are the cheapest 3 on offense or defense and the 2 movement force your opponent to defend more territories, spreading his forces. Divide and conquer.
I agree with you
If they cost 5, they would be too cheap and who would buy mech?
@ Lieutenant -
In Classic they cost 5 and defended on a 2. I think the stats and cost were about right in that game. And it was fun to attack tanks that were on defense - made for nice back and forth action.
When the defense got upped to 3 and the cost stayed at 5 (Revised and AA50) they were too cheap.
You know what purchases are really dead?
AA guns. 5 IPC’s is too expensive. Believe it or not, Larry had the price at 6 when he changed it so they could be taken as casualties and only fired at 3 planes, but I talked him down to 5.
It’s still too high. I’m not even sure they would be reasonable at 4.
THREE seems about right! What do you think?
I don’t think I’ve ever bought an AA gun. In any game. Ever. Ok, I suppose in the Original I did once in a while when I built a US factory in Norway or something.
If the AA guns were mobile and could fight like the German 88’s, then maybe…
I would buy AA at $5 if they could move 2 spaces! I’d probably buy them at $4, but there should be a $5 land unit.
Tanks are a good deal even at $6 if you throw in the mech at $4. Its sort of like a fighter that can take a hit, take and hold a territory then defend it at 3. Now imagine if you could reinforce the tank by rolling in a mobile AA gun at NCM.
AA gun solution is a simple one:
Change price to 7 IPC.
When enemy aircraft are present:
AA guns fire before every round against opposing enemy aircraft.
AA guns as a whole can only roll 1 die per aircraft present and no single AA gun may roll more than 2 die.
AA guns score a hit for every “1” rolled.
When no enemy aircraft is present, AA guns defend @1 in the normal course of combat.
As it stands, AA guns are basically just free casualties you start the game with as in 99% of scenarios I’d rather pay for an Inf at 3 IPC and get to roll with it each round for 2 or less than pay 5 IPC to get to roll 3 die only once and hope one of them show up at a 1.
We could just make this game even more complicated by:
1: Treating each nation independently for unit purchase prices
2: Changing those prices for early/mid/late game rounds
As it stands, AA guns are basically just free casualties you start the game with as in 99% of scenarios I’d rather pay for an Inf at 3 IPC and get to roll with it each round for 2 or less than pay 5 IPC to get to roll 3 die only once and hope one of them show up at a 1.
Well you definitely agree with me.
I’m thinking 3 IPC’s per AA might be a fair price. That’s only 60% of the current cost :-)
I’m finding it’s not even usually worth transporting the ones you start with, with the USA, across the Atlantic. Better to buy arty, mech, tanks to go across than to ship the free starting ones over. Anybody had the same thoughts?
I’m finding it’s not even usually worth transporting the ones you start with, with the USA, across the Atlantic. Better to buy arty, mech, tanks to go across than to ship the free starting ones over. Anybody had the same thoughts?
I have also never bothered shipping over an AA gun. One of the big problems with it is that you can only move them in NCM. If I could bring them in with my invasion force, I might consider it so they would be there on defense.
Every unit has a reason to buy it, even if your odds of doing it in a game are perhaps 1%. Once in a while the battle calculator will tell you that you can squeeze out a small extra chance to defend if you have an AA gun instead of some other unit (this usually only happens if you’re defending a minor IC. It’s highly dependent on what you expect to get hit with. The other reason to buy it is just pure luck. If you happen to hit with every shot, then that can be hugely damaging to your opponent. Even if you don’t hit with everything, you still have a ~40% chance of getting at least one hit if you’re making three rolls. That takes a plane off the board while you still have the AA gun to lose as a casualty. Again, depending on the makeup of the attacking force, that could swing the odds significantly in your favor.
That being said the unit can certainly be improved. For starters, I’d lift the restriction on being only able to move it NCM. I presume that’s there for some kind of realism on the pretext that you can’t set it up to be used on the attack. However, if you can bring artillery on an attack, no reason AA couldn’t come as well. Make it so they can be taken as losses but don’t get to roll if you have to.
