This is an issue I wish the game by vanilla would just let you turn over control of territory to your allies as this happened a lot between Germany and Italy. I have allowed enemies forces to capture a territory just so I can turn it over to another.
UK barbarossa strategies
-
COW: If England attacks SZ 97, yes. I sometimes lament Larry split the Italains even more, instead of consolidating them more, but it is what it is.
theROC: Exactly why you need to land in Northern Russia. Check it, from Scotland (the closer of the two Englands) no fighters can get to Russia if you have Karelia, Leningrad, Arkhanglesk and Nenetsia. That means they have to go:
A) Be Built
B) Fly to Africa
C) Fly to Alexandria / Sea
D. Fly to Persia
E) Fly to MoscowThat is a bit longer than England > Scotland > Nenetsia (or similar) > Mowscow and the psychological effect cannot be discounted either.
-
TripleA dices can’t be manipulated, and you get mailed the dice results for every roll. That’s a good thing.
It might be difficult, but as long as it’s a computer running the dice, it can always be manipulated. Top that off with the first versions that could handle Revised literally getting whacko dice, it just makes me hesitant to use it. At least until I get my new computer going, install the software and play with it for a month recording dice results to ensure AA Guns get 15-19% hit ratios (it should be 17%)
I know the house dicey is pretty accurate, but I’ve been using it since forever. FOE’s was as well, so is Frood’s calculator. I didn’t rely on ANY of them without first testing them out. It’s nothing personal, I just don’t want to fly 5 American Bombers over Berlin and have all 5 shot down by an AA Gun (Well, can’t anymore, limit 3, but you get the idea) when it should only be 1. I used to get similar to that all the time in TripleA and Dogs of War.
-
triple a dice comes from a server unless you are using the internal roller (which is for solo games).
If bombers are doing air runs, the AA gun is not what shoots at them, the complex itself has a built in Anti Air system (means you don’t need to keep AA guns on your capital to prevent industrial bombing).
-
So my question is where do we go from here on Russia? Because frankly I am tired of playing as the allies and just seeing russia so screwed so fast. Nothing he can do about it. At least in the other games of axis and allies a good Russian player could hold out for 10-20 rounds.
-
exploit the +3 NO off any original italian german or pro axis neutral russia claims.
iraq and the 4 starting italian african spots. you can kill what defends it with the other allies and not take the territory, leaving it for a russian mech or tank…. but you have to move stuff over it to defend it against a couple german suicide bombers.
then you just have to fly some stuff in to keep russia alive rounds 5-7. the NO money will keep russia pumping 10 inf a round for a long time and as long as you got shipments of some allied units coming, you will be fine.
-
@Cow:
triple a dice comes from a server unless you are using the internal roller (which is for solo games).
If bombers are doing air runs, the AA gun is not what shoots at them, the complex itself has a built in Anti Air system (means you don’t need to keep AA guns on your capital to prevent industrial bombing).
It’s still AA Guns.
So my question is where do we go from here on Russia? Because frankly I am tired of playing as the allies and just seeing russia so screwed so fast. Nothing he can do about it. At least in the other games of axis and allies a good Russian player could hold out for 10-20 rounds.
Personally? I’ve been on record for a LONG TIME now, saying that Russia needs a tank in Yakut SSR. It’s far enough from Japan that it will take more than one turn to do anything too them (and let’s face it, 99% of the time, Russia’s running from the Japan advance, so it’s more like an anchor for the defense.) It’s far enough from Germany to be effectively ignored strategically for a good chunk of the pre-game.
I’d also like to see a few more Artillery, probably in Urals, Evenki and Timguska, just so they’re pushed back a little.
@Cow:
exploit the +3 NO off any original italian german or pro axis neutral russia claims.
I’d like to see this NO only apply to mainland Europe. Let’s face it, the NO is really about the collar nations, the BUFFER between Soviet territory and any European aggressor. Russia only wanted these territories because it was invaded by the Kaiser, it was invaded by Napoleon and it was invaded by Hitler. It was done being invaded! (Not to mention Finland and Poland were historical enemies of the USSR/Russia as well.)iraq and the 4 starting italian african spots. you can kill what defends it with the other allies and not take the territory, leaving it for a russian mech or tank…. but you have to move stuff over it to defend it against a couple german suicide bombers.
Ditto. Russia might even go so far as to be banned from all non-European, non-Chinese or non-Russian territories. It could be a negative NO, where Russia loses 5 IPC if it ends the turn on any territory that isn’t in that list, or on any friendly transport or aircraft carrier.then you just have to fly some stuff in to keep russia alive rounds 5-7. the NO money will keep russia pumping 10 inf a round for a long time and as long as you got shipments of some allied units coming, you will be fine.
This is the crux of my argument that you need half those transports to land shit in the North to stop America and England from cheezing the game. Hell, just for realism, I’d say Russia collects NOTHING if there are any forces in Moscow that are not Russian. At least that will limit this move until Russia’s effectively gone already. -
industrial complexes roll at all air bombing it, not just limited to 3.
I’d like to see this NO only apply to mainland Europe. Let’s face it, the NO is really about the collar nations, the BUFFER between Soviet territory and any European aggressor. Russia only wanted these territories because it was invaded by the Kaiser, it was invaded by Napoleon and it was invaded by Hitler. It was done being invaded! (Not to mention Finland and Poland were historical enemies of the USSR/Russia as well.)
I like the NO as it stands right now. Should someone take that away from me, I’d like russian naval in the black sea. Russian naval in the black sea sounds baller, like a destroyer and 2 cruisers sounds about right with a transport.
Screw tank in yakut, give me a bomber for russia.
Without the NO the axis would win everytime, in fact I will refuse to play allies with a gimped national objective… unless I got A) bigger bid B) black sea naval and bomber for russia.
-
If it turns out the Allies are consistently losing because Russia is too vulnerable and dies too early, then the easiest remedy will be one that does not involve setup changes. Maybe give USSR the Advanced Artillery tech as a national advantage (i.e. each Soviet artillery supports 2 infantry or mechs). Call it katyusha rockets or something.
-
nah, russia is pretty solid when he gets the NO from africa/iraq. Plus it is the only way LH could encourage italy to do some naval play.
-
A) I don’t think Russia should be getting the NO for those. It feels like an over-sight too me.
B) It’s legal. Cheezy, but legal.
C) This really sucks for Italy. I used to abandon Africa so that America couldnt get the IPC from Fr. Territories there AND conserve my strength AND not need a fleet (neutering the British attack since now it costs them time and materials and costs me nothing). I used the addage that you only take what you need…now I NEED Iraq - so I suppose best thing there is to land as much as you can into Syria and stop the Russians. I wonder if it’s possible to pull enough Russians out of Russia to effectively cost the Allies the game in their monosightedness of going for Algeria, Libya, Italian Somalialand, Ethiopia and Iraq? It should be easy enough to get German planes down there for the short term to really bugger the Russians while Japan puts pressure on India to keep them away.
D. I’d like to mention that the Northern Route is currently working and if coupled with a SERIOUS Italian push on Iraq drawing even more forces out of Russia proper, one might see Russia collapse under its own weight.I can easily see Russia fighting in Nentsia, Novosibirsk, E. Poland, Caucasus and Timguska against the Italians, Germans and Japanese pretty easily, if they are really focused on Africa anyway. At least it’s not as stupid cheesy as giving Russia +3 for Ireland (or Hainan, Formosa, Carolines, etc)
-
There is a reason why people take africa seriously with uk and drop that egypt minor down and hold it. Games are won or lost in africa sometimes.
~
russia should only have to bring at most 4 guys down (get 2 from persia). Considering they come back later, I say TOTALLY WORTH IT. :D
~
The only thing that kind of bothers me is russia in africa (the middle east is fine because of the oil), but the africa thing was not in the war.However, I don’t think it was short sighted of an NO. It is a national objective that forces action, I like it in that respect. people would need lots of stuff to play allies without it.
-
Assuming England didn’t play with Italy on Round 1, there’s no way four Russian partisans are going to do anything but stain the grass red if they move down to the Middle East.
Assuming England DID play with Italy on Round 1, Russia should have a mass invasion driving into them, by the time they got to Italian Somaliland, they’d probably have no capitol left to collect on it. And by that, I mean an all out attack on Russia. You’d be pretty surprised how 8 defensive punch makes quite a difference between Moscow being Russian or Moscow being Germany/Italian/Japanese. As I said before, if you are not planning to win in the Pacific, then don’t invest there. Gives you A LOT more leeway in what you can send down Russia’s throat.
Agreed, Russia in Africa is ahistorical. Though, if we wanted the game to be historically accurate, we would have to ban the Axis from winning. I could see Stalin going into the middle east. However, I highly doubt he would let England stay.
I’d rather see Russia be a 3rd power on the board, personally. They are able to take any allied territory west of India/China that they can walk too, but England/America can still reinforce them. It’d be a lot more historically accurate - they took Poland, Poland was an ally.
-
you don’t need a whole army down in africa with russia… just 1 mech 1 tank takes persia then takes iraq… 1 mech 1 armor is all russia needs… uk/usa can kill everything with air for russia. like say 6 italy guys are on tobruk, drop 2 inf and hit it with air, retreat is fine.
LL games are a bit easier to predict hits with. Dice games not so much. Still the investment russia makes to take those territories are worth it.
Yeah yeah yeah most people try to get russia rounds 5-8, easy to stall that though.
-
Getting down to Africa takes so long that the cost to Russia is much greater than the benefit. It may also tie up UK trying to defend the Russian units.
-
@Vance:
Getting down to Africa takes so long that the cost to Russia is much greater than the benefit. It may also tie up UK trying to defend the Russian units.
Much depends on how early Russia is brought into the war.
R1: Move Arm from Stalingrad to Turkmenistan.
G2: DOW on Russia
R2: NCM Arm into E.Persia
R3: Put on UK TT
UK3: Move TT to Ethiopia
R4: Unload Arm onto Somalia
R5: Blitz forward to Sudan, taking Ethopia
R6: Your in Alexandria
R7: You can take both Tobruk and LibyaNow, you sent 6 IPC worth of units to get some extra IPC. When does that unit pay for itself? On R5 when you blitz to Sudan. R4 you get 3 IPC, R5 you get 7 more for 11 IPC over those two turns. Assuming Moscow is facing the music on G7, that means that:
R5 you place 1 more Inf
R6 you place 3 more Inf
G7 hits Moscow and you have 4 die rolling @ 2 instead of 1 Arm rolling @ 3In my general workout for UK in Egypt those UK TT are doing this:
UK1: TT via India - bring W.Indian Inf to Persia - Unlock 3 Inf. Egyptian TT does a NCM with Inf/AA from Malta to Egypt, ending in SZ81.
UK2: Bring Indian TT with 2 Inf to Egypt. TT behind Suez is going to Persia for that last Inf (so it has room anyways for an Arm)
UK3: Move TT with 1 Inf from Persia to EgyptSo in theory, you find a little bit of use with putting an Arm in Turkmenistan on R1 and it can pay dividends as a decent investment later - particularly if you can bog Germany down in Russia till R8-R9. You’ll have nearly a full extra round’s purchase of Inf that you could have placed.
-
As unpleasant as it is, i’m going to have to agree with cow’s point of view.
Using russian units to go and grab valuable territories in Africa is easy, and does not cost much.The spendo moves from the previous post are way too complicated and too costly…
Here is what i would advise:
R1, leave an inf in Caucasus, bring a tnk and (eventually) a mec in Turkmenistan.
UK1, activate Epr.
R2, if Russia at war, activate Npr, and activate Cpr with tnk(and mec) from Tur.
R3, take Irq (Irq might have been attacked but not taken previously by UK to make it easy for the russian).
R4, bring the tnk (+mec) in Egy. From there, you are free to take Ethipia, Somalia, and eventually Tob if possible.All you have spent is an inf, mec, tnk, and there is no going into UK transport of any sort.
Of course, the whole thing depends on the fact that you keep the Italians uncapable of taking Egypt, and that you are able to stop them from retaking Irq quickly.
-
Of course, the whole thing depends on the fact that you keep the Italians uncapable of taking Egypt, and that you are able to stop them from retaking Irq quickly.
That’s the hard part. They could do a landing on Egypt just when your Russians happen to be there and kill them. Iraq is quick easy money though.
-
If UK has done his job and wiped sz96 and 97 on UK1, then Italy should have a hard time unloading in Egypt by round 4. Specially if UK has kept some planes in Malta or Egypy from UK1 attacks.
-
If UK has done his job and wiped sz96 and 97 on UK1, then Italy should have a hard time unloading in Egypt by round 4. Specially if UK has kept some planes in Malta or Egypy from UK1 attacks.
That’s kind of ironic. The Spread of Communism NO was added to make Russia strong after sea lion. UK’s best defense against sea lion requires that they send all planes home to London (and whatever else then can get home). So that means no Taranto raid. Now that the final setup makes sea lion pretty unlikely, people are free to do the Taranto raid and like you said, if UK does it then Italy might not be able to prevent Russia getting its units down to Africa.
anyway I guess the reason that i don’t like the idea of Russians going down to Africa is that it just takes too long to have much impact. By the time Russia is able to mobilize any new units with money made in Africa it is pretty close to the time when germany should be beating on Moscow’s door.
-
@Vance:
That’s kind of ironic. The Spread of Communism NO was added to make Russia strong after sea lion. UK’s best defense against sea lion requires that they send all planes home to London (and whatever else then can get home). So that means no Taranto raid. Now that the final setup makes sea lion pretty unlikely, people are free to do the Taranto raid and like you said, if UK does it then Italy might not be able to prevent Russia getting its units down to Africa.
anyway I guess the reason that i don’t like the idea of Russians going down to Africa is that it just takes too long to have much impact. By the time Russia is able to mobilize any new units with money made in Africa it is pretty close to the time when germany should be beating on Moscow’s door.Â
Here i must totally agree with you. Something is wrong with that set-up…
Taranto occurs now 100% of the time, and when Germany wants to do Sealion, it is much more difficult than it was in previous versions.
Trying to help russian units taking Eth, Somalia and eventually Tobrouk, Libya is becoming standard, and is difficult to stop for the Axis…this should be fixed by another change to Alpha 3 IMO. African Territories should not be part of the +3 NO for russian.
Suggested Topics
