Germany fights a 2 front war anyway . . . whether or not the front line is the coast of europe or great britain. I think that the Brit units replaced some French units. You can hit Paris with every ground unit in range and have 9-10 units survive. Or you can split them up as you please between sfr, fra, and wfr. Most people hit both sz110/111 and either 91 and 106 or just 106 w/2ss. That and your air keeps any serious allied landings off of Germany’s doorstep for quite awhile. Think what 70-100ipcs worth of ground units will do against USSR now that you’re not buying all those transports and naval cover. I’ve become a fan of a G1 Barbarossa while others advocate a G2 Barbarossa. If done right, you can take USSR by turn 7 at the latest. Italy can cover your flank up till then.
also see that France is a much harder nut to crack with more British units in there again.
If you take the pain to review OOB, Alpha 1, Alpha 2, and Alpha 3. You’ll see it’s actually one of the weakest setups. Also Normandy is MUCH weaker aswell.
Also, the British almost NEVER get to keep a fleet. It’s not usually until rounds 4 or 5, that they actually start putting SHIPS back into the water.
No bid needed.
jen the game is much more balanced, most people have problems winning as allies.
What garg said is true. Though I find the axis to be favorable for low luck games, I win games giving allies a bid. :D
Dice games axis are still favorable to axis.I think much more compensation goes on for allies or it could just be the way things turn out. When I play allies, there are a few places I have to attack like sz 97 where I can get completely screwed in 7 out of 100 games.
Also Jen, remember that long discussion we had about 5 bombers flying into UK and what kind of impact that might have?… well 5 aa guns that can be taken as casualties are in UK now, also a tank and infantry was added (if I recall). So now you take real casualties like some tanks and some air maybe, like omg real casualties.
You can still do little sea lion, except now japan might want to hold off on war to prevent 5 bombers from flying in. Imagine that, like omfg the allies can actually respond to something and make the axis react now, wow you mean we are playing a real game now? Yar.
The American bombers couldnt be in England anyway when Germany hit on Round 3, so I don’t get to get into an argument about them. However, keep in mind I have not played this flavor (I call each version a flavor) of the game yet.
My guess is that I’d give up England now. Rather make a push for Russia coupled with submarines/fighters (and tacs) to keep the sea clear long enough and hard enough that America couldnt afford a KJF campaign. Only REAL chance, that I see with my limited view atm, is hitting Russia and hoping to pop it like a zit before America can use England as a staging ground.
The problem with Sea Lion was that it really did end the two front war for Germany. Without England, there was no where for those transports to land troops - which is why it made a kick butt move in the first place.
As for the uniforms people need to lighten up. It’s a GAME based on history. I’ve always said that if you want to make the game historically accurate, you need to bar the axis from winning. Maybe show a movie instead.
The American bombers couldnt be in England anyway when Germany hit on Round 3,
if Japan declares war on round 2 usa can fly bombers he bought on round 1 in. Typically UK buys all infantry and has to fly out his air units to sink italy… in which case you can do sea lion and take the united kingdom over, however if japan goes to war and usa flies in 5 bombers, the odds change dramatically.
So typically if you want to take the united kingdom over with germany, you have to delay japan from war on round 2.
I think you misunderstand the Japanese attack. Japan declares war on Round 2 if and only if:
1) No matter what happens, England falls
and
2) India did something extremely stupid like stack in Burma (where they can be snuffed out by aircraft for minimal losses.)
Both have to happen, otherwise, the more traditional round 3 attack occurs - which is after London already fell. At that time, all American bombers are effectively wasted for at least two rounds (from E. USA to somewhere in the Pacific and from there to attack Japan.) Meanwhile, that’s a bloody aweful lot of IPC sent into bombers that now cannot perform their primary task. Not to say the allies lose if America buys nothing but bombers on round 1, but it can’t help their cause if they become gelded.
Of course, I have not really LOOKED at the feasibility of things. Without hitting all those cruisers that are generally dead, things might be different - for one, Italy’s position could be a lot weaker now, and if you go for the transports, you just don’t have the equipment to hit the cruisers as well (hence why SZ 110 was ignored previously, now it’s worse with even more there and less hitable). And of course, if you go for SZ 110, you dont have the submarines necessary to soak hits should England scramble into SZ 109.
I would, however, probably still buy the transports as they allow me to move infantry from Berlin and Frankfurt directly into St. Petersburg without having to laboriously march there. They also have the added benefit of making America buy those “just in case” bombers and easing tension on Japan (and even if they don’t, it’s probably not worth the effort to hit England anymore. It was barely better than not doing it in Alpha 3, this wrinkle probably - and without calculator assumption here - tips the risk vs reward and global position towards the allies.)
However, whatever your goal, endeavor to conceal it from your enemy. Hence the early transports instead of slowely building them might still be recommended.
india does not die round 3 if you do not DOW with japan on round 2.
if india does not stack burma india dies round 3, j2 you hold shan state for a landing spot, drop an airbase on kwangsi and a naval and blam 12 guys with all your air on india.
At least if uk stacks burma he dies killing air units. not to mention you still have to drop an air base or naval. to get enough for india.
Usually there is a burma stack, if it dies oh well, at least uk pac got a bunch of air. plus japan still has to skip dutch islands.
It really depends on how japan sets up what the allies do. fighters/tacticals on carrier means uk can put a bb below burma and block with a dd off malaya (so 3 of your air units will go to sink the BB rather than hit burma). Sometimes the carriers are empty and everything is in kwangsi. in which case I’d rather not stack burma since I am more likely to get 1 shotted instead of having a second round to fire at japanese air.
usually people have their carriers loaded and burma is a -17 TUV attack on burma on average. plus china gets to make his burma road money.
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Japan does not go to war on round 2, I don’t know how pacific is a problem for allies after that. uk pac’s bank roll and anzac is generally too much. also the 18 russian inf comes in hot now (you don’t get 10 ipc anymore when they attack).
just play the game, stop talking about it.
I don’t believe in transports with america, except for pacific. Atlantic there is no reason to get transports, you just park your naval in sz 97 and convoy disrupt. get a couple subs for normandy and southern france.
USA is all about pacific, except when sea lion happens, because that means japan did not go to war round 2. no war round 2 screws japan up in so many ways.
Plus the starting usa pieces for america is plenty to work with.
Plus you don’t need lots of transports to take back uk. if you can kill 112 / hold 110, all you need is 1 guy on uk. you only need transports if germany is putting infantry on uk, which it can’t afford to do with russians pushing into europe.
Sea lion is still viable and doable, but pushing for russia is more optimal for various reason. I do sea lion if I see russia buying all inf and no mech/artillery, I won’t have to sweat russia so much, because those guys will not make it in time to push me and they lack attack.
Like in aa50 1941 you see germany buying naval, what do you do? buy tanks! Global it is the same thing except in global it is more artillery/mech instead of tanks.
people are still bad at global. soulfein is really good at global and he will also tell you, japan needs to go to war round 2 it is better to pass on sea lion and go barb.
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on a side note, people still do the sea lion fein, because it prevents uk from dropping a minor on egypt round 1. Also the shuffling of units to russia helps early on and you get enough use out of it to make up for its demise should usa get bombers to blast it. still prevents lots of players from flying their stuff out of UK to sink 97. It is still good.
Personally I prefer to sink 97 and buy bombers with usa and let the axis decide what they want to do. postpone war with japan and take uk or pass on uk and blow up with japan. Either outcome is good.
there is a reason why I don’t buy infantry with russia when i see sea lion on the first round.6 art rest mech. you follow through with sea lion, great i buy all mech 1 tank. you take london wee, i hold romania hit the other three spots got plenty of guys comin in hot. If you don’t have enough to kill me in yugoslavia i go there more guys comin in. I go northern italy usa flies in to defend me. next round BLAM italy is done. Russia can get crazy. Germany has to stop this and can’t afford to hold onto uk for very long.
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the game is much more balanced, people have lots of different strategies and there are lots of viable options. Right now people lean toward KJF with usa and strong mediterrean play with uk.
Like omg germany suffers real losses, which means russia is strong, germany has to actually spend money to kick em out of europe! OMFG IMBALANCED!
in fact the whole point of the changes that occurred was to prevent both uk and calcutta from dropping on round 3 every game, because that sets usa up to have to match japan income while trying to liberate uk, which is auto lose. Also people were taking uk without losing air units or the tanks they sent… that was BS, now germany suffers real losses and walks out with a tank and half his air maybe, none of that total BS that used to occur.
The worst I came out of a stack in Burma (and I bagged to Australian fightes to boot) was loss of 3 fighters, 3 tactical bombers and a strategic (the latter to the AA Gun.)
To make India a cake walk, it was totally worth it. 7 planes for 1 NO, 1 nation, and no resistance in the south from anything (including Australia due to lack of planes.)
However, I do ahve to say, my DOWs are generally round 3 since most of my opponents know it’s futile to stack in Burma against me. That means on Round 3 the NB/AB drop on Hainan/Kwiang or whatever that territory is down by FIC.
The nice thing about waiting an extra round is the +6 ground units, +2 aircraft and +3 transports you can bring iwth you to drop on India - castrading those poor ANZAC planes. Means there’s a 10 IPC Australia, 0 IPC India, no Australian meatshields for America and an America sitting there going “uh, oh shit. Where did my allies go?”
As for the Russians, there was no IPC in my mind for them. It’s Mongolia they lose (and the what, 6 infantry?). Fine. I welcome the attack. It’s only ever been an issue in one game and then only because Japan’s attacks everywhere on the board went to hell and America focused almost entirely on Japan - capturing Tokyo on round 11 (just to give you an idea of how bad the dice were for Japan.)
Previously, Germany’s main goal was to take London. The whole idea of Japan holding off one round is to stop America from pulling a “jerk move” like landing Bombers there. Legal, but hardly realistic. I’ve done it myself - don’t get me wrong, but it’s still a jerk move in my mind, like Germany blitzing out to take Africa (which they would lose immediately after) in classic for the M84 win.
Lastly, I think I said this as well, I agree, you have to pretend Sea Lion. This transports are not wasted, they serve you well dropping units from both W. Germany and E. Germany into Karelia each round. (10 Transports is 20 Infantry a round into Norther Russia. Russia cannot stop that AND a push on the East AND the possibility of an end run in SZ 100. They’re still HORRIBLY underpowered, though much better than Larry usually makes them. IMNSHO.)
Final thought, I still think the whole panic was centered on London. I think Calcutta attack, which was developed not so long ago, still have so many people saying “impossible” that it would be premature to do anything to stop it. I do it, I do it almost every game, and the games I did not do it, were usually the ones I lost - Japan does not earn enough to match the Americans AND deal with China, Russia and India.
In fact, I believe those Russian infantry are only an issue IF you don’t get Calcutta early. Since now you have a three front war. If Calcutta is gone, Japan actually has a chance to win the war - in my mind.
why can’t you DOW round 2, hold shan state, hit india with boats round 3 with all your air? that is what happens when india stays in india. 4 mech with 3 air probably won’t kll 8 guys on shan state.
either way uk dead. your j1 transport buy makes it to india with a naval base. so yeah i don’t see what the problem is.
I don’t know why usa bombers is a “jerk” move. First you say it is bad now you say it is “jerk”
Eh, most people don’t care if mongolia never joins russia, it does make japan have to move around it at least.
once you commit to 10 transports, russia stacks up ready to attack some german spots. usually romania… if you turn around and hit novgorod which has 3 mech… which is unlikely you will do, russia still gets +9 from your front lines and a retreat is easy with mech… plus the 70 ipc in transports not being ground units … sure you get a good shuffle going but it is not the same punch as a strait barb would be… also usa bombers come in handy for this. all russia needs is to take back archangel or belarus for a round and usa has a spot to land from london. so it gets cleared out relatively quickly.
Still most people like to have USA provide the fleet and uk just needs the transports to drop men and some carriers for his own fighters.
also 10 transports from usa is not 20 guys a round… it has to travel then come back or shuffle. the logistics for transporting men is expensive for usa. better off going KJF.
you know you really need to find some good opponents. don’t you play garg from time to time?
It can be both, Cow.
It’s bad for USA because it costs a lot of money.
It’s a jerk move because let’s face it, what Commanding General is going to let Infantry units shoot up his heavy bombers before killing his infantry?
I did say I’ve done that move before myself, but I feel it’s kind of a jerk move (though I am going to do it against BoldFresh soon to save Moscow.)
If America has bombers to help England, I am NOT attacking Burma on Round 2. It’s not worth it (in Alpha 3, not 3.9) because it’s MORE important to ensure London is in my hands than it is Calcutta. To me, that is. If America isn’t set up to help, then sure, I’ll take the easier route as there is opportunity cost to having to bring more units to hit India later than it is to use less now.
I generally (in Alpha 3) see American carriers with British fighters, with England focusing on Infantry/Fighters FIRST, then Transports when America gets to SZ 110. Just what I see.
The fact that axis would win 70% plus games doing J3 DOW shows how lackluster and stupid the older version was. I have zero respect for axis players who did not give allies a 4-6 infantry bid for uk in that version. ZERO respect. Axis would still be a slight favorite to win even with the extra units in uk… in fact all the newer version did was increase uk’s defense, which made axis go from a huge favorite to a slight favorite.
Sealion is just as attractive as barb now and is not the “supreme ultimate only strategy you should ever even think about doing.”
Japan is also best doing war round 2, because of the income that goes to uk pac and anzac for still having territories like borneo, sumatra, java, kwangtung and malaya. also picking up celebes.
Delaying japan for war stalls the pacific. India could also move out to burma and hold it or kill more than half your air if you try it (anzac fighter flies in from sumatra)
Because of the extra units to UK, different allies strategies evolved, allies are not a pushover anymore and are not as boring.
I disagree. Sea Lion is far inferior, in most games, to Barbarossa now. Japan cannot help with Sea Lion and the odds have gotten low enoiugh that you actually risk armor now. I don’t want to lose armor in some hell hole in England! Ye gads man, they can’t even cook there!
UK Pac / ANZAC don’t get the “extra” money unless htey DOW japan. Then Japan can go out and rip their guts out and stomp on them until they die without so much as a peep from America. If Idon’t take Calcutta, there’s no point in DOW before round 3 when I can be in position where I want. At least, not that I’ve seen, but feel free to challenge me to a game and we’ll see, no?
sure install triple a and we can play a live game right now.
I am not typing my moves out or using battle maps which does not tell you what pieces were moved / removed / added.
we can play by forum, but not with battlemaps - it is silly to use that now. I am still traumatized by the aa50 tournament of last year, where a guy went all in on germany @ 5% odds though he did not roll my 1 of my inf/artillery or include it in the battle my dice rolls were so bad that one guy did not matter, plus it sucked so much time playing by forum, I may as well have played a live game.
Considering I play pretty fast in a live game (or so I am told), typing movements out / checking opponent / etc is just too much. Plus I go nuts when people don’t type their movements out, because then I got to count some stuff out. people make too many moosteaks and every little thing matters to me.
Funny, I have the same impression about TripleA. Lol. They actually develop a random number generator that is, shall we say, random?
I have a new computer coming, it will be built by the 3rd of May and shipped that day. Probably be able to iunstall a program on about the 10th, I dont want to punch holes in the firewalls on this computer to allow TripleA to work since I’ll be giving it to the kids. (HDD is going, Fans are borken and I’ve seen some nasty test results from the integrated sound card too. Not worth fixing.)
dude dice is random and should be random. Is the dice not random here?
the rolls come from the marty server usually, where do the rolls come from on here?
I think they come locally from here. It’s random here, but it seems that TripleA gets like 40% hits with AA Guns, at least, it used too. It was bloody ridiculous and negating a good number of strategies, so at least some of us ditched it, uninstalled it, and never went back. And the AI sucked.
marty servers are random. In real life sometimes you roll lots of hits with aa guns. I am sorry, but strings of dice do happen naturally. The marty servers are pretty close to a guy taking a die and rolling it out.
AI sucks in almost every game, unless the AI gets cheats like wall hack. I don’t notice too many strings which is weird, considering if I flip a coin 500,000 times there should be long strings of heads or tails.
we shouldn’t really argue about the programming of dice rollers, as close to nature as possible is the ultimate objective for dice servers and random number generators.
I can see the argument for “normalized” dice rollers / number generators that cut out natural strings of the same result. I don’t like that though, because that is different than me having the dice in my hands.
The AI in dogs of war was awesome. But yea, most of the games AI sucks.
Yes, strings happen, but not over the coarse of two years. I have the records, I could scan them for you, but it was 42% hits with AA Guns, 28% hits with Infantry, 17% hits with Fighters - this was back when it was only Revised/Classic.
I don’t know, I have not had that problem, so I don’t know what you are talking about. Even back then.
