SBR to assist Barbarossa

[Dawkland]

Had an idea to use as Germany in a Barbarossa campaign that I’ve yet to try in a game.  I was thinking that along with the regular tank/infantry push towards Moscow if Anybody bought an extra SB or two and stage 3-4 SB’s out of Eastern Poland to hit Moscow every round right from the beginning of your first attack turn to prevent the Soviets from building a 50 inf stack.  You would probably be doing at least 10 ipc’s worth of damage every round at a cost of losing maybe only 1 bomber every other turn.  If he intercepts you then you at least get a pop at his two fighters which he can not easily replace.  Next time I play Germany I’m gonna go with this strategy and see how it works.  Has anybody tried it before and if so did you feel it was effective?

[Alsch91]

It’s a valid strategy, but you’ll find you may be a bit short on ground troops with all the cash you’re spending on bombers.  It’s a trade-off.
Or the Western Allies could try to funnel fighters to Moscow, and intercept with them.
If you’re spending on bombers in Russia, the Allies may find less pressure as they approach Europe.  So they could find some extra cash to spend on a small handful of fighters to throw at Moscow.

As with all valid strategies, yours may have benefits, but it still has its counters.

[Guest]

A couple dice rolls and back up the bombers with ground pounders … who knows what could happen?

[knp7765]

That does sound like a good idea, but usually when I play Germany, I’ve found that I usually can’t afford to buy bombers because I have to keep pouring on the land units, especially tanks and mechs, plus keep a decent defense on the Atlantic coast and put out subs to try and keep England off my back.

On the other hand, the main reason I have to keep buying so many land units is in anticipation of large defensive stacks in Moscow.  Maybe if you pounded their factories good enough, you might not need so many tanks.  Who knows?

[Jercules]

If you’re doing anything but the bowling-ball approach to Barbarossa (G4 attack, every last IPC from G2 on goes to land, Italians can-opening so that Luftwaffe can land with the stack), I don’t see how you don’t strat. bomb.

Russia lacks the luxury of buying air and paying off damage. You can use SB to A) Hit Moscow immediately, and force production from the more disparate IC’s, 2 of which are dangerously close to the Wehmacht, or B) Hit Leningrad and Kiev, basically forcing him into an early turtle (with the added bonus that if Russia is going to try and intercept you, they’ll have a harder time of it).

I’m currently playing a game in which Germany builds a G1 airbase and IC in Romania. It’s a good spot to launch SB’s and defend any transport builds in sz100, which will most surely be coming. This is all part of a G1 Barbarossa–my goal is to see if, with a full-on, immediate press from Germany, Russia can fall by G5.

[Piet Hein]

I think it would be a great strat. Only problem seems to be reach. Even with an airbase in Rom or Pol., SBs can’t fly back and forth to Moscow and you can’t take any accompanying fgts. You can reach Moscow from East Pol, as you suggest, but suppose you attack on G2, you can only land planes there on G3, and use them for attack on G4. Could be too late

[Alsch91]

If you’re going for the slower, more economical approach to Barbarossa - which frankly works better against smart Russian players - bombing is very effective.  After you take both Leningrad and Ukraine, bombing will significantly cripple his ability to defend.  However it’s only a long-term strategy.  If you’re trying to hurry, it’s not going to help much.
But then again if you are trying to hurry, don’t get mad when your G6 attack on Moscow fails terribly because Russia wisely turtled.

[Dawkland]

Economically it’s viable I think.  Germany starts now with 2 strats so to have 4 bombers by G3 is 24 ipc’s.  you figure you’ll lose an average of 1 every other round so that’s about 6 ipc’s per round investment to maintain the bombing campaign, which is roughly 10% of Germany’s income to drastically reduce Soviet ability to stack infantry.  So for the cost of one tank per round after G3 you cripple the soviet economy reducing probably 3-5 infantry a round or more depending how much territory is gobbled up amongst the axis powers.  I’m really looking forward to seeing how this works. If somebody tries it let me know.  Thanx.

[Alsch91]

It’s very viable.
It’s more of a long-term strat, but it can work well.  And those bombers can also help threaten Allied ships, so the 12 IPCs investment is usually worth it.

[suprise attack]

It’s a game of economics also , and if you can hit Russia with Bombers from Germany and Japan can Russia aford to pay for damages, and buy enough pieces to hold.
  You’ll have to buy an air base for Japan and place it close enough to hit your target.
  Bombing has come back into our games in the last 12-15 weeks.  I hit London on R2 enroute to the R4 Sea lion. On R3 I hit Naval & Air Bases
  Try it,  it’s great to see em have to cough up money and choke on it

[otahere34]

I played a game once where the U.S. and Britain worked together and bombed like 15 damage to both of their major ICs. It was hilarious cause after they repaired them, we hit again and Germany fell down hard. But hitting russia can work, but watch those rolls of 1’s for aa guns and the low rolls for the bombers.
34

[Jercules]

Strat. bombing is pretty advantageous for the attacker. The defender has to keep fighters holed up in one place to intercept with any teeth, and even then, they hit @ 1’s along with the attackers (which can come from anywhere, and therefore have the flexibility to do other things).

As Germany, SBing is awesome; you either bomb London into the stone age, or, if they try to defend it, you drain their fighter stack.

I have one game in which I started Barbarossa early whilst using strat. bombing to keep London at bay; the strat. bombing has been so successful that I’m kicking myself for not working towards sealion instead (forcing him to stack infantry and, thus, pay off a near 20 IPCs in damage, which would humble him in the Middle east, and on and on)

[Jennifer]

This can be highly effective with just the 3 bombers Europe starts with. (2 German, 1 Italian.)

You can get to S. Ukraine from S. Italy and back to safety so it’s an option.  Likewise, you can get to Novgorod from W. Germany and back to safety so it’s also an option.  Later you might want to walk the bombers in so you have 2 going at Moscow and 1 at Volgorod (Stalingrad).  That is, once you’ve secured S. Ukraine and Novgorod (St. Petersburg).

Another option is to walk the Japanese bombers in range to assist.  An Airbase in Northeastern Russia can help get those bombers over to the German lines.  Assuming you have the Americans under control, this can be a godsend for the European Axis as Japan can take pressure off the Italian bomber to “finish” the job.  (Say Germany does 14 dmg to Moscow.  Instead of risking the Italian bomber, you can send a Japanese one or two to cap off the damage.)

I am not saying this will always work, I am just pointing out some thoughts.

[Jercules]

Not to hijack the thread, but another consideration is this:

Often, the difficulty with sealion is being able to win the sea battle before it even begins. You may have enough in air and transports to take London, but if the UK scrambles 3 fighters and you haven’t allocated enough to take care of that, game over.

Use the Italian air to strat. bomber the UK air base. It takes very little to knock an airbase out, and London cannot repair it before facing sea lion.

[Alsch91]

Excellent point, Jercules.  Italy would have to remember to station air somewhere north, like France, on I1 - so they can bomb with escort on I2.  But a great point.  I’d forgotten completely about that.

[Jennifer]

@Jercules:

Not to hijack the thread, but another consideration is this:

Often, the difficulty with sealion is being able to win the sea battle before it even begins. You may have enough in air and transports to take London, but if the UK scrambles 3 fighters and you haven’t allocated enough to take care of that, game over.

Use the Italian air to strat. bomber the UK air base. It takes very little to knock an airbase out, and London cannot repair it before facing sea lion.

It shouldnt be an issue.

2 Fighters, Tactical Bomber vs 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser 1 Aircraft Carrier has only a 4% chance to win even without any German CAP (Cover Air Patrol) over their boats.

[Alsch91]

Well that’s right, Jen, unless circumstances force Germany to plow through some Navy on the way to London.