Militaryman,
Nearly ALL of us want more tanks, just as nearly all of us needed more tacs and mechs for the 1940 games. If coach only gets 6 tanks per Italian set from FMG, he needs to sell them at a price that makes sense. Let’s say FMG is selling him Italian sets wholesale at $30, that means that if he sells the tanks at $0.55, he recoups $3 of his cost and is stuck with a TON of pieces that a lot of people don’t need. It gets even worse if people order lots of tanks - say you order 30 tanks, or 5 sets worth, at $0.55 - coach gets roughly $15, but is left with $135 worth of inventory to sell that is not as desirable!
And that is without Coach MAKING A SINGLE DIME OF PROFIT (see I can use all caps too!). I still think the tanks are too cheap, btw. $9 for 6 tanks is not that bad…
Yes, but your “sky is falling” attitude about the scarcity of the tanks is not true. All FMG has to do is put in a new order for tanks and presto, he has more tanks. They didn’t throw the mold away in China did they??? Ok, I stand corrected.
military man, you can’t just “order more tanks”… First off, the mold only has one slot for a tank, and you can’t just mold tanks without anything else in the mold. To order more tanks, or anything else, Jeremy at FMG would have to place a minimum order (normally 1000 mold runs) which would give him:
1000 tanks
AND
1000 carriers
1000 battleships
2000 transports
2000 subs
2000 destroyers
etc.
The mold has a fixed number of slots, many units only have one slot (including the tank). To make more of one piece, you have to run the entire mold. This all costs quite a lot of money, hence why his sets cost $40 in the first place!
No offense, but no one is making a killing here…
Reloader is absolutely right. You can go buy 30 tanks from HBG for $1.45 a piece, or go buy 5 FMG sets for $39.95 to get you 30 tanks! It’s a no brained if all you want is tanks!
Reloader is correct!
The whole mold has to be run.
I did check with my factory way back when if I could run a partial of the mold.
They stated that it could be done by blocking off some cavities and only feeding the plastic into one portion of the mold……but…
The mold would be forever changed, you could not revert back and would lose all the cavities you blocked off forever.
This process that both FMG and HBG is doing is hard, expensive and time consuming.
We are doing the best we can and I can assure you that I have NOT regained 10% of the $30,000.00 I have spent so far in sculpting, cost of mold, production, shipping, advertising, etc
I pray down the road that I at least make back my money if not actually make a profit.
I do understand like FMG, profits are down the road, but please, give us some slack.
We both have full time jobs aside from our online business.
I literally work every weekday evening after I come home until 11:30-12:30am. I get up at 6:30 am , go to my job, work through my lunch hour on my online business. Saturdays are always again working on my business, and after church on Sunday I do it again. I am sure Jeremy has similar schedules and he still has kids at home.
Sorry to go on, but we are not the bad guys, we are doing, learning and……doing our best!
Coach
(aka. Doug Friend)
Guys,
I hope that everyone now understands some of the concerns that HBG and FMG are faced with while “sticking their necks way out financially”. I applaud their efforts and think they both deserve a Distinguished Service Medal.
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My only hope is that FMG might consider using the same “scale” parameters that HBG does. The trucks are simply too large. But if FMG doesn’t change,…No biggie, we’ll still have some really fine units in the future. It would just be MUCH BETTER if all of the
HBG and FMG units were more compatible in size.
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This thread(and forum) is already serving as a valuable tool in sharing concerns of both the customers and the producers of these units. Hopefully we will ALL benefit from it with better units in the future. It also helps when the customers understand many of the producers concerns and/or problems.
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Again, a big THANK YOU to both HBG and FMG for all of their time, money, and efforts in producing the units thus far.
“Tall Paul”
Geesh! It’s starting to sound like everyone wants nothing but more tanks. Maybe FMG should have a new mold made and stamp out nothing but tanks. Then people could pay $39.95 for 150 tanks. Of course, then they would have no infantry, artillery or mechs to support them. No transports to carry them to distant shores or warships and carriers to protect the transports or any planes to put on the carriers.
By the way militaryman077, it may be my fault that Coach raised his price on the tanks. I recently put in a large order for some and may have depleted his stock.
Geez guys! Give the guy a break!
The cost of things is based on SUPPLY AND DEMAND.
If a set is worth $40, and there are only 6 of a certain type, that means that he has to purchase more sets to fill orders for that type. So he has to invest in tons of other units he does not need just to get those that he does. He is not overcharging, he is calculating what he needs to sell at so he can afford to purchase another set to fill orders!
You will notice that as a consequence of this, more plentiful and less popular units are very inexpensive as he has an oversupply of them.
Those that complain should consider them selves lucky that Coach provides the service that he does… would you rather purchase another full set at $40 to get a few extra tanks?
AAA++++ to him for saying it. We have jobs like everyone else here, and do this as a Hobby business. I can tell you HBG and FMG have not profited a single cent so far from these projects and it is always a LABOUR OF LOVE. Hours of work, thousands of dollars, our BLOOD, our SWEAT for the Hobby we love.
Thanks - I had to say my piece here.
Jeremy
Just to update… as of last count, HBG had 9 Italian tanks in stock, as opposed to 345 Italian transport ships in stock.
Assuming that you get 12 ships and 6 tanks per set, and assuming that HBG has sold at least a couple transport ships, it seems that his initial stock was 30 sets of Italian pieces, which means he had:
180 Italian Tanks
360 Italian Transport Ships
Since then, he has sold 171 tanks, and 15 ships. Which means for every set he has to buy to fill additional tank orders, he is going to be stuck with quite a few transport ships that no one buys….
Geez guys! Give the guy a break!
The cost of things is based on SUPPLY AND DEMAND.
If a set is worth $40, and there are only 6 of a certain type, that means that he has to purchase more sets to fill orders for that type. So he has to invest in tons of other units he does not need just to get those that he does. He is not overcharging, he is calculating what he needs to sell at so he can afford to purchase another set to fill orders!
You will notice that as a consequence of this, more plentiful and less popular units are very inexpensive as he has an oversupply of them.
Those that complain should consider them selves lucky that Coach provides the service that he does… would you rather purchase another full set at $40 to get a few extra tanks?
AAA++++ to him for saying it. We have jobs like everyone else here, and do this as a Hobby business. I can tell you HBG and FMG have not profited a single cent so far from these projects and it is always a LABOUR OF LOVE. Hours of work, thousands of dollars, our BLOOD, our SWEAT for the Hobby we love.
Thanks - I had to say my piece here.
Jeremy
Keep building them, and I will keep buying them (ahem … particularly if you make french units). You have my support where it counts - with my money.
I have these units and have HBG’s on the way. I recommend these to anyone. $40 is not a lot of cash to have a customized game. Much MUCH cheaper than when I was considering using pewter pieces some years ago. And the detail is very pleasing.
I would also point out:
Where else are you going to get Italian specific pieces? And in the scales that we are used to with Axis & Allies?
You can get the tanks and mec in the proper scales (but it would have to be pewter, and therefore expensive), but good luck with finding the planes, infantry and ships in the right scales. Not from Avalon Hill. They only gave us infantry and tanks. And it doesn’t look like we’ll be getting anything more from them anytime soon.
I am quite pleased that FMG made these.
Anyone complaining about the pricing of these units fails to understand basic economics let alone economies of scale. The amount of cash/orders that must be put down just to make one mold is probably more than you can imagine. You think a factory in China would take time out of it’s business to run a few molds for these guys? They’re competing against orders from companies of all sizes from all over the world just to get these things made in the factories. Not to mention that these two companies have done all of us a huge favor by just making these pieces. Would I like them to cost less? Sure, who wouldn’t? But I’m willing to pay whatever these guys need me to pay to ensure that all these pieces that I’ve been waiting decades for will exist. Thanks to both FMG and HBG for all the hard work and dedication. Remember everyone that this a project of love, but they are businesses. If they don’t make money, who makes the pieces?
Dadler12, Jim010, Reloader and Others,
Amen, Brothers. IMHO Everyone should acknowledge the realities envolved here.
HBG and FMG have perfomed a great service for ALL of us to enjoy. And I’m sure it will be quite a while before they even break even. Before complaining about really small concerns you should stop for a moment and consider where you’d be WITHOUT these units!
The white metal or epoxy types of units are much more expensive,…and you don’t have two companies activly engaging in a huge expansion of the available units. I’m guessing that with all of the new units from each country that HBG and FMG probably have maybe
100-200 NEW UNITS planned. IMHO we should be thankful. Very Thankful.
“Tall Paul”
Medium Scale: Self-Propelled Guns
Large scale: Heavy Tanks
It looks like HBG makes both light and heavy selfpropelled artilleries.
The STUG III is medium scale, and the Hummel is large scale.
I like it.
Stug III is a Tank Destroyer / Self-Propelled Gun
Hummel is a Self-Propelled Artillery.
Direct fire vs indirect fire.
Hats off to both HBG and FMG for their great products!
Personally, these are the types of products I have wanted for years and I am extremely happy. They have added a whole new dimension to my game.
As someone who works for a major company heavily involved and reliant upon manufacturing from overseas factories, I marvel at the time, energy, investment, and risk HBG and FMG have given to their respective projects - especially in this crazy economy. I also know that producing a product for the niche group of enthusiasts (like us on this forum) is even more challenging because it’s the toughest crowd to please (vs. the mass consumer).
I’m sure both companies appreciate constructive feedback, but I think before we get too critical on price/product/timing, we should all remember a few short years ago when neither of these companies existed. It’s very rare you get someone to invest in a niche project and also get them to listen to all of the input from the audience before the go to production. It’s not like they can go and pitch their product to Walmart or Best Buy…they rely heavily on this forum to spread the good word and help create bottom up demand for their products.
So a few extra cents for tanks; a few less tanks in the pack then we’d like, etc, etc…not a majar deal vs. not having these companies around.
Bravo to HBG and FMG. Keep up the good work gents!
It’s not like they can go and pitch their product to Walmart or Best Buy…
Could you imagine walking into the game department at Walmart and finding FMG’s Italian Combat Units? Although, it would probably be more likely in a place like Hobbytown USA that actually sells war/board games. Walmart doesn’t even HAVE Axis & Allies. Pfeh!
To those complaining about lack of tanks, just order another full set, so you have a few more ships than what you need, honestly, give FMG and HBG a good pat on the back, they deserve praise, not criticism. Just like us they are human and cant be perfect all the time :-D
I think FMG’s sets are very well balanced in the number of different sculpts (tanks, planes, ships, etc.). Maybe more tanks would be nice, everybody loves tanks, but you need all those ships and planes for our games as well. Also, I believe Tall Paul and Tigerman77 are coming up with some new naval games where there will be bigger naval battles with more ships. So, if any of you want to try those games out, you will need all the extra ships.
I disagree as to balance - at the very least I would trim down the number of transports, subs, destroyers, or cruisers and add one slot for tanks.
I’ve asked HBG what units he sells the most of, the answer is tacs and land units (tanks, mechs). People use LOTS of those in the 1940 and variant games, including global. It is undeniable that A&A has a global focus.
For those few that want to play naval variant games, like Tall Paul and myself, the extra ships are nice - but honestly, given supply and demand, it is much easier for the minority that plays naval variants to pick up extra ships from HBG than for the majority who play A&A based games to pick up extra tanks, mechs, etc.
Here are some prices:
Land Units:
Tank $1.95
Truck $0.75
Mech $0.35
TD $1.05
Compared to:
Naval Units
Carrier $0.25
Battleship $0.40
Destroyer $0.25
Submarine $0.25
It won’t be the end of the world for FMG to kill one destroyer, sub, or transport slot and give us 6 more tanks and 6 less of whatever ship he axed. For those that want more of the ship, they can always buy more. However, if you want to buy more tanks, you are out of luck - HBG sold out in a couple days…
I’m quite sure my comments in future years to come will be looked and and people will chuckle at my concern about the pricing, especially if the carro armato reaches five dollars a pop.
I was on Larry Harris’ design forum last nite and was browsing through the posts for the Axis and Allies Anniversary post circa November 6- 26 2008 and just see we can all take things in the right perceptive regarding us taking things for granted now that we have two marvelous sellers to buy different pieces from. Back then we didnt have that luxury. Here are a couple of posted that really got my attention. The first is from a guy who just got up after reading Larry’s description regarding what is new for the AA50 and decided to just go to the nearest hobby shop and pick up one or two. lol. The other post had to do with a person who wasn’t too happy with the color of some of the pieces in AA50.
Here is on excited person that can’t wait to go out and buy his copies of Axis and allies Anniversary Edition after reading Larry Harris’ forum about what’s new in the set.
Off to pick up my copy (or 2 if they have them)…can’t wait!!
proud owner of not one, but two sets
"checking things out now, but I have to run back to the store and pick up some cold ones to celebrate.
Interesting that the back cover does not show the new units."
This post is truly ironic because the person assumes that the Anniversary Edition will have a later edition to address an issue that he has with the color of the tanks.
I bet he regrets he didnt just go out and buy ten more copies.
Post subject: Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:37 am
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 2:28 pm
Posts: 1445
Location: norway The sad thing is, I cant use the Europe tanks because the colours are slightly different.
But, I wont buy more copies until they fix the tank molds.
Post subject: Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:37 am
bOY, i BET HE REGRETS NOT PICKING UP TEN MORE SETS.
