Review of FMG Italians and HBG Axis Minors

[saint1012]

Hey kcdzim, I got 18 cruisers and no destroyers!  Wanna trade a few pieces?

Trevor

[kcdzim]

@saint1012:

Hey kcdzim, I got 18 cruisers and no destroyers!  Wanna trade a few pieces?

Trevor

Comical.  You’re the second person to approach me with this.

First, I would recommend contacting FMG, as he indicated a willingness to fix errors with huge piece count discrepancies (not piddly one or 2 off, but getting one or none of something, well, that’s pretty crazy.

He has offered to send me some missing cruisers, so I’ll consider trades after receipt.  Unfortunately, Bob Mickelson has dibs first.  Although, Bob, you too should contact FMG regarding the count.  You also suffer from cruiser wealth and destroyer poverty, pretty sure Jeremy will fix that.

[militaryman077]

@reloader-1:

At a bare minimum we need at least one more tank slot in the mold for all countries, especially US/Germany etc. 6 tanks for $40 is not viable, and lots of us will have the same idea in buying them from HBG. I can see HBG charging $5-6 per tank, as someone who buys a $40 FMG set doesn’t really need more ships or planes, but definitely needs more tanks. Remember that HBG doesn’t want to lose money selling the tanks from the Italian sets and being stuck with 6,352 carriers and battleships…

THANKS ALOT, RLOADER, FOR GIVING COACH THE IDEA TO RAISE THE PRICE ON THE CARRO ARMATO FROM  55 CENTS A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO TO $1.45 TODAY. I’D RATHER BUY COMPLETE SETS THAN PAY THAT MUCH FOR ONE TANK.

[militaryman077]

WHO KNOWS, MAYBE SOME BRIGHT CHINA MAN ON THE ASSEMBLY LINE POCKETED 6,000 TANKS AND IS GONNA MAKE A KILLING ON EBAY.

[Tigerman77]

Militaryman077- I’m sure reloaded didn’t give coach that idea! Besides it is supply and demand! If he sells all the armor and mechs out of the sets for $.55 a piece and doesn’t move anything alse, how is he suppose to profit from that and use that profit to purchase other sets to sell? You have to understand he isn’t getting rich or making a “killing”. In the end he has to make enough money on each set to justify buying another and piecing it out. If the price of the pieces go up then you know those are the ones that are moving and are popular.

[reloader-1]

Militaryman,

Nearly ALL of us want more tanks, just as nearly all of us needed more tacs and mechs for the 1940 games. If coach only gets 6 tanks per Italian set from FMG, he needs to sell them at a price that makes sense. Let’s say FMG is selling him Italian sets wholesale at $30, that means that if he sells the tanks at $0.55, he recoups $3 of his cost and is stuck with a TON of pieces that a lot of people don’t need. It gets even worse if people order lots of tanks - say you order 30 tanks, or 5 sets worth, at $0.55 - coach gets roughly $15, but is left with $135 worth of inventory to sell that is not as desirable!

And that is without Coach MAKING A SINGLE DIME OF PROFIT (see I can use all caps too!). I still think the tanks are too cheap, btw. $9 for 6 tanks is not that bad…

[militaryman077]

@reloader-1:

Militaryman,

Nearly ALL of us want more tanks, just as nearly all of us needed more tacs and mechs for the 1940 games. If coach only gets 6 tanks per Italian set from FMG, he needs to sell them at a price that makes sense. Let’s say FMG is selling him Italian sets wholesale at $30, that means that if he sells the tanks at $0.55, he recoups $3 of his cost and is stuck with a TON of pieces that a lot of people don’t need. It gets even worse if people order lots of tanks - say you order 30 tanks, or 5 sets worth, at $0.55 - coach gets roughly $15, but is left with $135 worth of inventory to sell that is not as desirable!

And that is without Coach MAKING A SINGLE DIME OF PROFIT (see I can use all caps too!). I still think the tanks are too cheap, btw. $9 for 6 tanks is not that bad…

Yes, but your “sky is falling” attitude about the scarcity of the tanks is not true.  All FMG has to do is put in a new order for tanks and presto, he has more tanks. They didn’t throw the mold away in China did they???  Ok, I stand corrected.

[reloader-1]

military man, you can’t just “order more tanks”… First off, the mold only has one slot for a tank, and you can’t just mold tanks without anything else in the mold. To order more tanks, or anything else, Jeremy at FMG would have to place a minimum order (normally 1000 mold runs) which would give him:

1000 tanks

AND

1000 carriers
1000 battleships
2000 transports
2000 subs
2000 destroyers

etc.

The mold has a fixed number of slots, many units only have one slot (including the tank). To make more of one piece, you have to run the entire mold. This all costs quite a lot of money, hence why his sets cost $40 in the first place!

No offense, but no one is making a killing here…

[Tigerman77]

Reloader is absolutely right. You can go buy 30 tanks from HBG for $1.45 a piece, or go buy 5 FMG sets for $39.95 to get you 30 tanks! It’s a no brained if all you want is tanks!

[HBG]

Reloader is correct!
The whole mold has to be run.
I did check with my factory way back when if I could run a partial of the mold.
They stated that it could be done by blocking off some cavities and only feeding the plastic into one portion of the mold……but…
The mold would be forever changed, you could not revert back and would lose all the cavities you blocked off forever.
This process that both FMG and HBG is doing is hard, expensive and time consuming.
We are doing the best we can and I can assure you that I have NOT regained 10% of the $30,000.00 I have spent so far in sculpting, cost of mold, production, shipping, advertising, etc
I pray down the road that I at least make back my money if not actually make a profit.
I do understand like FMG, profits are down the road, but please, give us some slack.
We both have full time jobs aside from our online business.
I literally work every weekday evening after I come home until 11:30-12:30am. I get up at 6:30 am , go to my job, work through my lunch hour on my online business. Saturdays are always again working on my business, and after church on Sunday I do it again. I am sure Jeremy has similar schedules and he still has kids at home.
Sorry to go on, but we are not the bad guys, we are doing, learning and……doing our best!
Coach
(aka. Doug Friend)

[Tall Paul]

Guys,

I hope that everyone now understands some of the concerns that HBG and FMG are faced with while “sticking their necks way out financially”.  I applaud their efforts and think they both deserve a Distinguished Service Medal.

–---------------------------------------------

My only hope is that FMG might consider using the same “scale” parameters that HBG does.  The trucks are simply too large.  But if FMG doesn’t change,…No biggie, we’ll still have some really fine units in the future.  It would just be MUCH BETTER if all of the
HBG and FMG units were more compatible in size.

-----------------------------------------------

This thread(and forum) is already serving as a valuable tool in sharing concerns of both the customers and the producers of these units.  Hopefully we will ALL benefit from it with better units in the future.  It also helps when the customers understand many of the producers concerns and/or problems.

------------------------------------------------

Again, a big THANK YOU to both HBG and FMG for all of their time, money, and efforts in producing the units thus far.

“Tall Paul”

[knp7765]

Geesh!  It’s starting to sound like everyone wants nothing but more tanks.  Maybe FMG should have a new mold made and stamp out nothing but tanks.  Then people could pay $39.95 for 150 tanks.  Of course, then they would have no infantry, artillery or mechs to support them.  No transports to carry them to distant shores or warships and carriers to protect the transports or any planes to put on the carriers.

By the way militaryman077, it may be my fault that Coach raised his price on the tanks.  I recently put in a large order for some and may have depleted his stock.

[FieldMarshalGames]

Geez guys!  Give the guy a break!

The cost of things is based on SUPPLY AND DEMAND.

If a set is worth $40, and there are only 6 of a certain type, that means that he has to purchase more sets to fill orders for that type.  So he has to invest in tons of other units he does not need just to get those that he does.  He is not overcharging, he is calculating what he needs to sell at so he can afford to purchase another set to fill orders!

You will notice that as a consequence of this, more plentiful and less popular units are very inexpensive as he has an oversupply of them.

Those that complain should consider them selves lucky that Coach provides the service that he does… would you rather purchase another full set at $40 to get a few extra tanks?

AAA++++ to him for saying it.  We have jobs like everyone else here, and do this as a Hobby business.  I can tell you HBG and FMG have not profited a single cent so far from these projects and it is always a LABOUR OF LOVE.  Hours of work, thousands of dollars, our BLOOD, our SWEAT for the Hobby we love.

Thanks - I had to say my piece here.

Jeremy

[reloader-1]

Just to update… as of last count, HBG had 9 Italian tanks in stock, as opposed to 345 Italian transport ships in stock.

Assuming that you get 12 ships and 6 tanks per set, and assuming that HBG has sold at least a couple transport ships, it seems that his initial stock was 30 sets of Italian pieces, which means he had:

180 Italian Tanks
360 Italian Transport Ships

Since then, he has sold 171 tanks, and 15 ships. Which means for every set he has to buy to fill additional tank orders, he is going to be stuck with quite a few transport ships that no one buys….

[jim010]

@FieldMarshalGames:

Geez guys!  Give the guy a break!

The cost of things is based on SUPPLY AND DEMAND.

If a set is worth $40, and there are only 6 of a certain type, that means that he has to purchase more sets to fill orders for that type.  So he has to invest in tons of other units he does not need just to get those that he does.  He is not overcharging, he is calculating what he needs to sell at so he can afford to purchase another set to fill orders!

You will notice that as a consequence of this, more plentiful and less popular units are very inexpensive as he has an oversupply of them.

Those that complain should consider them selves lucky that Coach provides the service that he does… would you rather purchase another full set at $40 to get a few extra tanks?

AAA++++ to him for saying it.  We have jobs like everyone else here, and do this as a Hobby business.  I can tell you HBG and FMG have not profited a single cent so far from these projects and it is always a LABOUR OF LOVE.  Hours of work, thousands of dollars, our BLOOD, our SWEAT for the Hobby we love.

Thanks - I had to say my piece here.

Jeremy

Keep building them, and I will keep buying them (ahem … particularly if you make french units).  You have my support where it counts - with my money.

I have these units and have HBG’s on the way.  I recommend these to anyone.  $40 is not a lot of cash to have a customized game.  Much MUCH cheaper than when I was considering using pewter pieces some years ago.  And the detail is very pleasing.

[jim010]

I would also point out:

Where else are you going to get Italian specific pieces?  And in the scales that we are used to with Axis & Allies?

You can get the tanks and mec in the proper scales (but it would have to be pewter, and therefore expensive), but good luck with finding the planes, infantry and ships in the right scales.  Not from Avalon Hill.  They only gave us infantry and tanks.  And it doesn’t look like we’ll be getting anything more from them anytime soon.

I am quite pleased that FMG made these.

[dadler12]

Anyone complaining about the pricing of these units fails to understand basic economics let alone economies of scale.  The amount of cash/orders that must be put down just to make one mold is probably more than you can imagine.  You think a factory in China would take time out of it’s business to run a few molds for these guys?  They’re competing against orders from companies of all sizes from all over the world just to get these things made in the factories.  Not to mention that these two companies have done all of us a huge favor by just making these pieces.  Would I like them to cost less?  Sure, who wouldn’t?  But I’m willing to pay whatever these guys need me to pay to ensure that all these pieces that I’ve been waiting decades for will exist.  Thanks to both FMG and HBG for all the hard work and dedication.  Remember everyone that this a project of love, but they are businesses.  If they don’t make money, who makes the pieces?

[Tall Paul]

Dadler12, Jim010, Reloader and Others,

Amen, Brothers.  IMHO Everyone should acknowledge the realities envolved here.  
HBG and FMG have perfomed a great service for ALL of us to enjoy.  And I’m sure it will be quite a while before they even break even.  Before complaining about really small concerns you should stop for a moment and consider where you’d be WITHOUT these units!  
The white metal or epoxy types of units are much more expensive,…and you don’t have two companies activly engaging in a huge expansion of the available units.  I’m guessing that with all of the new units from each country that HBG and FMG probably have maybe
100-200 NEW UNITS planned.  IMHO we should be thankful.  Very Thankful.

“Tall Paul”

[Razor]

@Lozmoid:

Medium Scale: Self-Propelled Guns

Large scale: Heavy Tanks

It looks like HBG makes both light and heavy selfpropelled artilleries.
The STUG III is medium scale, and the Hummel is large scale.
I like it.

[reloader-1]

Stug III is a Tank Destroyer / Self-Propelled Gun

Hummel is a Self-Propelled Artillery.

Direct fire vs indirect fire.