Was the Philippine Invasion Necessary?

[ABWorsham4]

The Philippine Invasion cost the Allies 14,000 deaths and 48,000 wounded.Also the Battle of Peleliu, which was fought to support the Invasion cost another 1,800 deaths and 8,000 wounded. It left the great city of Manila in ruins. And had Admiral Kurita not got cold feet and withdrew the U.S losses in ships could have been large enough to lengthen the war another six months.

Could the Philippine simply been ‘left to withered on the vine’, as Rabaul and Truk had been?

Would Formosa been a better Island to invade and have the same effect?

[Octospire]

The invasion of the Phillipines meant a direct confrontation between a large portion of both the U.S Navy and the IJN, this meant that once and for all the severity of the threat of the IJN could be reduced for the rest of the war. The battle of Leyte Gulf ensured that the United States had naval superiority in the Pacific and that the Japanese navy would never again have the numbers to challenge a large U.S surface fleet.

I think we underestimate the importance of the Phillipines in the psyche of Americans of the day, while it wasnt a U.S state it was still U.S soil at the time and for as long any U.S territory was under the control of the Japanese it was a blow to the pride of not only the American people but the armed forces as a whole. Really it boils down to tit for tat and getting back that something that was at the time rightfully theirs.

An invasion of Formosa aka Taiwan would be somewhat ill advised with the Japanese still controlling the Phillipines any invasion force both naval and ground forces would be vulnerable to counterattack especially considering that Pre-Leyte Gulf the Japanese navy still had a sizeable carrier striker force which could be deadly for any invasion fleet.  Also Formosa also add’s the issue of Japanese land based aircraft attacking from airfields in China which would definetly complicate any invasion and allied airfields would be under almost constant attack.

While it was definetly about MacArthur’s ego to some degree it was still strategically important to have a staging area close to Okinawa and the Japanese home islands where a fleet could gather without fear of running across a large Japanese strike force.

I think an invasion of Formosa after defeating the IJN in a similar fashion to Leyte Gulf may very well of had the same effect on the course of the war, it might of had more ongoing issues such as Japanese air attacks but the result would of likely been the same.

[MrMalachiCrunch]

Great points.  I do a have a slightly different take on one point however.

Really it boils down to tit for tat and getting back that something that was at the time rightfully theirs.

I dated a Filipino gal for awhile.  Their family events history would often come up.  The Filipinos had a slightly different take on who the Philippine islands belonged to.  A quick study of the Philippine-American war was pretty educational for me, I didn’t know……

[Clyde85]

I tend to think that the invasion of the Philippines was more about McArthur then anything else. He had promised to return and his ego mandated that he do so. The islands could have been left to wither and die like other major Japanese strong points. The capture of Taiwan would have effectively split the Japanese empire in two, and would of had a devastating effect on Japanese imperial forces on every front. Those forces in the southern half, like the Philippines, Malaya, Burma and the DEI, would have been cut off from the mainland and resupply of military equipment and ordanance. The northern half would be cut off from the raw materials they needed to run Japans industry and maintain the war effort. Also think of the psychological impact this would have on Japanese froces operating in SE Asia, knowing that they are completely cut off from the home islands, while dedicated, it would wear on moral big time.

The IJN and airforce was really a shadow of its former self by this time in the war, espically the airforce. The carrier air force under admiral Ozawa was not the same as the ones from Pearl, the coral sea or midway. These pilots had enough training to take off and land on a carrier, they lacked the expertise and experiance the kito-butai or first air fleet orignaly had. While the Japanese had a plan to throw everything they had at an American invasion of Taiwan just like they did at the Philippines (called Sho plans) they would have been throwing it at the entire US pacific fleet. The US had complete air superiority at this in the pacific, and the Japanese fleet would have gone down spectaculary. The land based airforces, in places like China, would be all that remained and would be pinched between the US naval airforces off the coast, the airforce that would be based in Taiwan, and the US’s 14th airforce operating in China. They wouldnt last very long.

[Octospire]

@MrMalachiCrunch:

Great points.  I do a have a slightly different take on one point however.

Really it boils down to tit for tat and getting back that something that was at the time rightfully theirs.

I dated a Filipino gal for awhile.  Their family events history would often come up.  The Filipinos had a slightly different take on who the Philippine islands belonged to.  A quick study of the Philippine-American war was pretty educational for me, I didn’t know……

I completely agree, its very much the usual legacy of empire. The Americans still believed the Phillipines to belong to them at the time, the natives werent really considered that much in the equation.

Although to put it into perspective, it was believed at the time that black Americans couldnt fight as well as white Americans and were relegated to support roles for most of the war until the U.S armed forces had a shortage of troops and had to put them into combat roles. This is inspite of the fact that black soldiers fought with distinction for both the British and French empire’s in WW1.

Anyways back to the original topic  :-)

[Fishmoto37]

@Octospire:

@MrMalachiCrunch:

Great points.  I do a have a slightly different take on one point however.

Really it boils down to tit for tat and getting back that something that was at the time rightfully theirs.

I dated a Filipino gal for awhile.  Their family events history would often come up.  The Filipinos had a slightly different take on who the Philippine islands belonged to.  A quick study of the Philippine-American war was pretty educational for me, I didn’t know……

I completely agree, its very much the usual legacy of empire. The Americans still believed the Phillipines to belong to them at the time, the natives werent really considered that much in the equation.

Although to put it into perspective, it was believed at the time that black Americans couldnt fight as well as white Americans and were relegated to support roles for most of the war until the U.S armed forces had a shortage of troops and had to put them into combat roles. This is inspite of the fact that black soldiers fought with distinction for both the British and French empire’s in WW1.

Anyways back to the original topic  :-)

I think you all may be too young to remember what a blow to American pride the loss of the Philippines was. And Octo,what do American black soldiers fighting ability have to do with retaking the Philippines?

[Octospire]

@Fishmoto37:

@Octospire:

@MrMalachiCrunch:

Great points.  I do a have a slightly different take on one point however.

Really it boils down to tit for tat and getting back that something that was at the time rightfully theirs.

I dated a Filipino gal for awhile.  Their family events history would often come up.  The Filipinos had a slightly different take on who the Philippine islands belonged to.  A quick study of the Philippine-American war was pretty educational for me, I didn’t know……

I completely agree, its very much the usual legacy of empire. The Americans still believed the Phillipines to belong to them at the time, the natives werent really considered that much in the equation.

Although to put it into perspective, it was believed at the time that black Americans couldnt fight as well as white Americans and were relegated to support roles for most of the war until the U.S armed forces had a shortage of troops and had to put them into combat roles. This is inspite of the fact that black soldiers fought with distinction for both the British and French empire’s in WW1.

Anyways back to the original topic  :-)

I think you all may be too young to remember what a blow to American pride the loss of the Philippines was. And Octo,what do American black soldiers fighting ability have to do with retaking the Philippines?

I was contrasting the peroid attitudes towards different races, if the United States army did not even let its own citizens serve in combat roles, how could the average American of the era regard the Phillipines as capable of self government. I was responding to the fact that the Fillipinos always believed that the Phillipines belonged to them and that contrasted with American opinion of the era.

I can understand what a blow it would of been to lose Guam and the Phillipines it was part of the United States and any foreign power controlling any U.S territory was unacceptable and a massive blow to American pride and honour.

[CWO Marc]

@Octospire:

I was contrasting the peroid attitudes towards different races, if the United States army did not even let its own citizens serve in combat roles, how could the average American of the era regard the Phillipines as capable of self government.

Prior to the Japanese invasion, the U.S. government was already planning to grant independence to the Philippines in 1946.  And as it turns out, the war ended soon enough for the U.S. to carry out that plan on schedule: the U.S. declared the Philippines to be an independent self-governing nation on (I believe) July 4, 1946, a date picked to coincide with America’s own July 4th national birthday.

[Octospire]

@CWO:

@Octospire:

I was contrasting the peroid attitudes towards different races, if the United States army did not even let its own citizens serve in combat roles, how could the average American of the era regard the Phillipines as capable of self government.

Prior to the Japanese invasion, the U.S. government was already planning to grant independence to the Philippines in 1946.  And as it turns out, the war ended soon enough for the U.S. to carry out that plan on schedule: the U.S. declared the Philippines to be an independent self-governing nation on (I believe) July 4, 1946, a date picked to coincide with America’s own July 4th national birthday.

I’m aware of that, but none the less it was still U.S territory at the time in question. Also thousands of Americans lost their lives defending the Phillipines and thousands more were in POW camps, that motivates a people to retake what they once had, what they still believed to be theirs.

The Phillipines were given independence because Americans did not believe in overseas empire, thus the people of the Phillipines were left to their own devices in 1946. Also its not like the Americans didn’t maintain naval bases and a presence in the Phillipines into the late 1980’s.

Also it wouldnt of looked very good for Truman talking up decolinisation in Africa and Asia when the United States was still holding on to its colonial posessions. To be fair the United States still controls Guam which it took at the same time as the Phillipines.

[Gargantua]

THE PHILLIPINES WAS A MUST!!!

Folks, the war wasn’t like Axis and Allies,  you didn’t know how many aircraft carriers and battleships your opponent had, or what weapons, or what secret technologies,  you fought as best as you knew, and you hit the enemy where you knew you could.

HOWEVER - Like Axis and Allies everything is done in Baby Steps.  Sure - Peleliu didn’t matter by the course to victory the allies took,  but say,  the Japanese invented the Jet in 42?  Or won a series of battles they lost?  Say they turned the American offensive around at Gaudalcanal?

You know, I can stand on a cardboard box and screw in a light bulb, but what if I slip? or the carboard crumples?  I might fall and break the light bulb… or my neck…  Better to get a REAL step ladder, or a cinder block, and place it on the ground - JUST TO MAKE SURE, I have a fail safe point to operate from.

That’s what the Phillipines was all about.  It was also a symbol to the world, of which side was winning… and it removed a POSSIBLE and SIGNIFICANT strategic asset from the enemy.  It had to be done.

There is a reason America didn’t just take the whole fleet to San Diego, load it with Marines, and set sail for Tokyo and for the win.  Everything is done one step at a time.