Hi there,
concerning SZ 95,
Contra: you can bring in less fodder.
Pro: every hit is a kill, nothing could be repaired if dice go bad.
Cheers.
N.
Soviet Union Strategy
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I don’t get how the Soviets can match the Germans “Tank for Tank”. The German economy is usually around: 45-55 whilst the Russian at most 37.
4 inf + 4 art + 1tank (34 IPC), save 3 and buy a second tank every other turn.
Although I like the idea of using planes to hassle…
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A) You cannot have as many tanks as Germany round 1. You just cannot afford it, nor do I think you want it.
B) You dont have enough infantry to start with, you need more!
C) Infantry move slow as molasses going uphill in a siberian winter, build them early!
D) You do need tanks! I like round 3 and then to go all tank builds at that point. (I should then have 2 rounds of new infantry + starting infantry to move forward.)
E) I’m not a huge fan of buying aircraft, airbases or naval units for Russia.
E1) 3 Aircraft is all you can field for your fleet in SZ 115 anyway, you have 3, why make more?
E2) Aircraft are expensive! 2 Infantry + 1 Artillery = Fighter, Infantry + 2 Artillery = Tactical Bomber and 2 Armor = Strategic Bomber. All of those have more utility for Russia, IMHO. You need to take and hold land, not trade it! AND!!! You don’t have an Italy to take the land in front of you so you can reinforce with your planes!
E3) Russia can earn in the 40s for most of the game, Germany earns in the 60s for most of the game, which one can afford luxury units?IMHO, I have never seen a Russian strat bomber work. I have seen an Airbase in S. Ukraine work, but only in keeping the Italian fleet dead. I have not seen an armored unit only purchase strat for Russia work, but I’d love to see someone try it against me! (PS same goes for German armored unit only builds. Tank dashes are not wise, imho.)
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I don’t get how the Soviets can match the Germans “Tank for Tank”. The German economy is usually around: 45-55 whilst the Russian at most 37.
End Germany 1: 7 Tanks
End Russia 1: 2 Tanks
Result: No matchEnd Germany 2: 7 Tanks
End Russia 2: 2 Tanks
Result: No matchEnd Germany 3: 10 Tanks
End Russia 3: 8 Tanks
Result: No matchEnd Germany 4: 15 Tanks
End Russia 4: 14 Tanks
Result: MatchIt can, theoretically, be done. This assumes Russia goes heavy on the infantry for rounds 1 and 2 and then almost exclusively tanks for rounds 3 and 4. It also assumes a standard German fleet buy on round 1 and a focus on infantry for the rest of the rounds (ie, starting round 3 Germany buys 3, 5, 5, 5 tanks).
Just to diagram how a typical game MIGHT go.
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How can you attack Iraq on turn 3 when Russia is neutral until turn 4?
I miswrote that - mean turn 3 after war. I want to take Russia through Africa to see if they, double teaming with the English can piggy back on each other. And help being about 5 additional IPCs to Russia to counter the most likely Japan far-east invasion drain.
So the sooner Germany goes into Russia, the faster I can be in Africa, so I’ll try some baiting ;) -
@Cmdr:
End Germany 4: 15 Tanks
End Russia 4: 14 Tanks
Result: Match15 = 14? Paradox inbound. :-o
Edit: Also, why is keeping up with tanks so important? I would think the Russians would want to keep up defensively with infantry.
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@Zallomallo:
@Cmdr:
End Germany 4: 15 Tanks
End Russia 4: 14 Tanks
Result: Match15 = 14? Paradox inbound. :-o
Edit: Also, why is keeping up with tanks so important? I would think the Russians would want to keep up defensively with infantry.
Being defensive in every game is boring and buying little else but inf is too boring :D
It’s fun to try and mix it up a little to see if you can pull out something unexpected on your “enemy” even if it might cost you a game once in a while. ;) -
14/15 = 0.933333… which when rounded = 1.
In other words, it’s statistically close enough to even to be called equal. However, I do agree, that mathematically 14 =/= 15
As for why do they have to be similar? I believe that was the beginning of the discussion: Russia needs to be able to take and hold ground in this version of the game, not just trade it like in previous versions. I am not personally ascribing too that theory, just stating where it started from.
Personally, I think Russia needs 2/3rds to 3/4ths the tanks Germany has and India/Africa needs twice as many as Italy has. Just my perspective on it. Personally, when it comes to Russia, I am leaning towards:
y(x)=(6 Infantry + 4 Artillery + 2 Armor)k + 3 Fighters + 2 Tactical Bombers
Such that: k is the proportional constant. That is, if you have 12 infantry, then my formula would state you need 8 artillery and 4 armor.
Note: the above assumes a significant portion of the game has elapsed and that Russia has had the cash to get the extra fighter and tactical bomber due to either an early break into eastern Europe or delayed Japanese involvement or whatever.
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Jennifer, couldn’t agree more! :-D Mostly Inf the first 2 rounds is important. Generally, Russia will have 37 IPC’s to build the first few rounds. So, 9 Inf each of the first two rounds, followed by 2 Art or 1 Tank, 1 Mech is usually a good build. By Rounds 3 or 4, you can build a few more Art, since the Germany forces are right next to Nov and Sukr and you can usually throw in a Mech and/or Tank or two because by then you have enough Inf that can soak up losses.
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37 IPC = 11 Infantry, 1 Artillery. That gives me a jump on the Infantry to Artillery/Armor ratios and allows me to move slow moving infantry up to the front while Germany’s playing with France and England. (Even if you don’t go Sea Lion, Germany’s playing with the British fleet for at least that first round.)
Second round I probably still have 37 IPC, unless Japan’s player is really inexperienced, in which case, I have 49 IPC, but let’s assume 37 IPC, for argument’s sake:
I no longer have 3 rounds to get into position before expecting a German attack, I now have 2. (because on Round 4, Germany’s going to attack, probably.) I cannot get units from Volgorod or Muskva to E. Poland, Baltic States or Bessarabia any longer, nor can I get them to Belarus, N. Ukraine, S. Ukraine or Novgorod (from Muskva/Volgorod remember) thus, getting units that travel one per turn is no longer as beneficial, so I’ll ease off those units a bit:
37 IPC = 5 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 3 Armor. Note: This allows me to put slow moving units into Novgorod and S. Ukraine where they are in position, while Armor can go in Muskva where they can get into position with the first round of builds!
Round 3: I’ll probably still have 37 IPC, I am still assuming Japan does not attack:
I’ll get 6 Artillery (24 IPC) + 2 Armor. The armor can move in quickly from Muskva while the Artillery (again) maximizes my factories in Novgorod and S. Ukraine. All this extra artillery makes my infantry stacks (that should be standing at about 41 Infantry) a significant threat to any German stack.
By the start of Round 4, the Russians should have: 38 Infantry, 10 Artillery, 7 Armor and 2 Mechanized Infantry on the front lines, with which they can support with 2 Fighters, 1 Tactical Bomber from Novgorod to attack a German stack. (Assumes: 1 Infantry in Baltic States, 1 Infantry in E. Poland and 1 Infantry in Bessarabia as a picket line; also assumes the force is split between Novgorod, Belarus, N. Ukraine and S. Ukraine with Novgorod and S. Ukraine containing 3 artillery each, the rest split between Belarus and N. Ukraine). There should also be at least an AA Gun present, though, I would have 2 present, one in the north, one in the south.
Compare that to all infantry builds. For one, most of your units are still walking to the front lines since you have to build at least some back in Moscow/Stalingrad. For another, you have SIGNIFICANTLY less offensive punch, meaning German stacks are safer. Now, just because you CAN destroy the infantry stack does not mean you SHOULD, but wouldn’t you want the possibility of doing it?
Essentially, if you stage as discussed, Russia can pose a serious health risk to the German economy while maintaining the Russian one, and that’s what you want! With England harrying the German navy, encouraging them to keep planes back in W. Germany and putting more ships in the water, Russia can easily out grow the German army in strength - if you can hold them out of red territories for a few extra rounds!
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Jennifer - I especially like the six artillery for Novgorod/Ukraine - a nice purchase for R3. I’ll be trying this.
Personally, I like being 2-1 with Armor/Mech Infantry also. If I have 8 Russian Armor, I want 4 Mech Infantry to roll along with it. Not much punch from the Mech, but a great mobile offense/defense combo.
I’m in the middle of a game right now with a 10-6 combo of Armor/Mech… with nice Infantry/Artillery combos on the front (I like 3 Art for every 6 Inf), Germany doesn’t much like the idea of moving forward…
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I’ve yet to find a truely good situation in which Mechanized Infantry work for me. They seem to be an opporunistic piece. For example:
If Italy can pop a hole in the Russian defense,
Then Germany could use the MI to blitz into a Russian strategic territory.If China can pop a hole in the Japanese line,
Then India can use the MI to blitz into the backranks of Japan.They just don’t seem to be units I go out of my way to purchase. My armies can only move one territory at a time anyway and there’s really no forward location I can put MI without them getting hopelessly murdered by the enemy.
I’ve used them early in the game to quickly move from one side of Europe to the other, or to the Soviet Far East (not the territoy, the group of territories) to reinforce against Japan, but that’s only with units I started with, not new ones.
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Jennifer, they have three areas of use for me.
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With Japan, they give you the ability to keep the pressure on in Asia. I typically show up to topple India with around 10 Mech or so (to go with Armor and whatever Infantry I’ve built). I don’t get too caught up in the 4 IPC price, or worry too much about hoarding them or conserving them… they are simply fast infantry, meant to be take ground, hold ground, and die like any other infantry unit.
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They are an excellent purchase in S Africa for Britain, if you don’t have a transport shuck set up between Egypt and S Africa. It only takes two turns to get to Egypt, vs. four if you’re making the long walk.
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To me, they are the perfect companion for Armor. IF, as Germany, you manage to punch a hole in Russia’s lines, for example, they become your fodder for your Armor stack. I once broke through in a game across the north, eventually circumnavigated Moscow, and took Stalingrad with 12 Armor and my few remaining Mech Infantry… no regular infantry purchase ever would have allowed that… I would have been taking Armor as casualties along the way which means I never would have tried it in the first place.
And I find that the same combo (2 Armor to 1 Mech) makes a fantastic mobile defense for Russia if placed and moved wisely, able to either attack or reinforce wherever needed.
I do see your point - if speed and mobility weren’t the issue, I’d almost always choose to purchase Artillery.
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Jennifer: You have had some very good points. I really like your ratios of infantry, artillery, and tanks. A unprepared German player would get slaughtered by the pressure points the 1-1 Russian - German tank ratio could cause.
Stalingradski is right about the Mech inf. They can be very useful if paired up with tanks in the right places. I especially find them usefull for Germany against the soviet union. With itally clearing any screaning russian inf on the front lines a large force of Mech, tanks and air support could sieze valuable territory from the Soviets and through them of balance forcing them to cover up and attempt to contian the blitz. The mechs protect the precious german tanks from damage. At the very least the mechs keep the options open for germany to switch from pressure on one front to pressure on a totally different one. Plus they keep the red army on its toes, attempting to cover every possible angle. (which often they over look something, sometime)I have also found them useful for the japanese supporting and protecting blitzing tanks in china and russia.
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They’re too situational to me.
Japan isn’t going to be buying htem, unless they’re planning to just let America take all of the Pacific in hopes of taking India (which won’t happen either.)
If Germany’s getting them, then they already own all of Russia and they’re a coups de gras unit.
If England’s getting them, then the game is over for the axis since they didn’t take London or London was liberated.
America might get them, but again, then Japan has been neutrallized and America is using them to speed across N. Africa.
Now, if they could be counted like infantry when loading on transports….
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I like them for russia to be with armor for my emergency army who can counter 1 side or the other. I just stack 2 army around the marshes with mech and armor and infantry. So if germany push one side or the other ive got some infantry with good amount of mech and armor who can strike. that left one side with some infantry and maybe some art for defense if germany does have another minor army.
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I go with mix of inf/art round 1 and maybe R2. The key is to go more mobile push if germany try sea lion, then you need to push the front in order to take advantage of germanys allocation of resourses on UK.
If germany goes barbarossa R2 inf/art combo and then fill in with mechanized/tanks on R3. -
Update, currently letting America run rampant over all of the Pacific so I can blitz every possible IPC into Russia as fast as possible.
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I believe that the key to playing russia properly is to buy artillery. these can improve the many infantry you begin with, and are great for counter attacks. i played germany in a game where the russian player did this, and they managed to attack one of my smaller stacks, leaving not enough manpower for me to take moscow. you also need to buy inf to though. germany is going to kill so many units of yours, that yu need to replenish them so your not left wwith only art. strategy: counterattack the small german forces.
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Although I agree some artillery is needed onekid, becareful, It’s a slippery slope.
Every unit in the game - with very limited exception, defends better than it attacks.
My german strategy, relies more on forward defense than attack.
As the axis in enemy territory, the best way to win is to have the russians kill themselves -attacking you- whilst you hold your ground on defense, It’s easier for the germans to hold a position (Like Ukraine) with the odd Italian defender, and air support landed, with aa-cover. Force the Russians to attack, or make weak defensive manuevers.
It’s slower, but it works in the long run, whilst using a lightning fast transport strike, to threaten britain / take leningrad (Novogorord)
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40 Infantry, 10 Artillery, 10 Armor seems to be very strong for Russia and quite achievable. It gives you enough infantry to trade, enough armor to stack and enough artillery to threaten. Another fighter is always good as well, really reinforces the eastern front against Japan! (18 Infantry, 1 AA Gun, 1 Fighter since the Fighter can zoom out there pretty quickly to help hold some of the territories instead of falling back as fast.)
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