Redrum, I didn’t realize you were a Triple-A Developer. I hope you take no offense. I didn’t mean to insult your baby. I appreciate the work you guys have done on Triple-A. As of late, I have found myself playing the AI more often than I would like (as I cannot get my friends together to play often enough). I am confident the AI will continue to improve over time. I guess I should put up or shut up. I ought to be submitting my bug reports to help you guys tweak the game.
Problems with the Axis
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Another 3 matches, another 3 losses for the axis.
Match 1: Germany f***ed up, playing aggressively while not being able to do so and maintaining the pressure after a G1 Baltic AC build and average successful R1 WRu and Ukr. So Germany just lost it’s tanks one by one, Japan was too slow, taking the long road, building only 4 transports with no transport on the southern route. Axis quickly gave up.
Match 2: My turn for Germany at last. Went Bomber, 6 INF, 2 arm on G1. Played defensively for a few turns on the eastern front, taking Karelia and building up pressure towards WRu and Ukr. Built another Bomber on G2, so that when UK invaded Norway I could kill his fleet, leaving me with 3 Bombers and no fighters. A russian sub in the Black Sea was a rather clever invest, costing me 12 IPC for 2 dds and forcing me to do suboptimal fleet moves (countering US invasion of Algeria instead of retaking AES).
The US, in what everyone thought to be a silly strategy, advanced with it’s whole fleet towards the pacific. And then disaster struck. My Japan teammate, usually a great player, didn’t notice after a 3 Bomber build from the US that his bombers from WUs could land in the Russian country north of Bur (which he didn’t take on J2 due to lucky russian dice). So there went most of his fleet against better than average dice (which only led to a better outcome for the US). Next turn Japan didn’t take down (or notice) the lone transport in front of Alaska. So Japan was taken with 1 INF, 4 ftr and Battleship Bombardment vs. 4 INF, 1 Art and a ftr.Man, was I disappointed (and my teammate rather embarrassed). Everything runs according to plan (except for a few unlucky dice), and then such a stunt.
Match 3: Another AC build for Germany (me with UK/US), this time in the Med with a tran. I didn’t want to show up in the first place, and my only comment was “Had I known this beforehand, I had’nt come.”
It still became more interesting than anticipated, due to lucky German dice on the AES counter on UK1 and Germany taking whole of Africa. Japan again didn’t take his transports to the southern route, therefore again being too slow in Asia, never mind not picking up Infantry from the Islands. UK/US shuck to Norway on turn 3, then Eastern Europe on turn 4, then Germany turn 5. German player with mistakes on turn 5, not defending Germany enough (neither with enough INF nor with Japanese fighters). Lucky dice on top for the allies sealed the Berlin deal on US5, Axis surrendering.
So still, Axis looks bad in our matches. If only my fellow players would refrain from pulling ridiculous stunts and questionable strategies.
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My friends have the opposite opinion. They are stubborn, keep having me play the axis so I am perhaps a poor allied player, though in 2nd edition I was a deadly allied player, not hard without bids though!
My friend swears the axis is too powerful and the allies need a bid in order to survive. I think we just need to play against some new blood so we can be schooled, embarrassed, curse the dice then finally accept we were missing something.
Read the article on Fortress Europe, review what few play by forum games remain, its a pity old legacy games and posts have been removed but there remains a few. Get into triple A, I dabbled with it but do not seem to have the time to get into it.
Try to get your group to do a play by forum here, it would make it easy to have folks here dissect it in a friendly way and provide alternate moves and constructive critiques.
I was hoping the high level players here might do a simulated so called typical game. Standard starting moves done, agreed upon results of dice knowing dice gods will change your plans. However, its rare to have dice change your Kill german first into a kill japan first strategy so its safe to have a pretend game with typical game flows with typical dice rolls with perhaps a few offshot discussions to cover what-ifs in the case of abnormal dice outcomes.
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I think we just need to play against some new blood so we can be schooled, embarrassed, curse the dice then finally accept we were missing something.
Read the article on Fortress Europe, review what few play by forum games remain, its a pity old legacy games and posts have been removed but there remains a few.
Yes, I noticed the part about 1942 games, few there, too bad.
I read the fortress Europe article and got quite inspired by it, reading up on it on this board in seperate threads. I used the superior placing of the Luftwaffe in France (british fleet sunk in the process due to my opponent somehow not noticing that I have 2 subs as cannon fodder). Played defensively and most was well (except for a stupid mistake as response to an R2 sub buy in the Black Sea). Too bad Japan self-destroyed on 4th/5th turn. I look forward to play more matches as Germany. I am not the only one, though. Everyone in our group wants to play Germany, and everyone is keen on trying their own special tech, no matter how loud I cringe :-)
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Everyone in our group wants to play Germany, and everyone is keen on trying their own special tech, no matter how loud I cringe :-)
Germany is not imho free to choose its stance in the game. To the contrary, it is obliged to adapt to the Allies stance towards Japan.
If the Allies put too much pressure on Japan, Germany has to go all out against Russia, bying at least 5 armor per round, fortifying Ukraine and having its eye fixed on WR-Caucasus.
If the Allies totally ignore Japan, Germany has to brace itself for an all-out defence, buying at least 10 inf per round, safeguarding its luftwaffe, trying to hold on to Africa for as long as possible and hoping that the Japanese airforce won t be landing too late in Europe…
If the German player ignores the Allied initiatives and simply goes on with whatever “sceme” he has, things will probably go bad for the Axis. -
I think we just need to play against some new blood so we can be schooled, embarrassed, curse the dice then finally accept we were missing something.
Read the article on Fortress Europe, review what few play by forum games remain, its a pity old legacy games and posts have been removed but there remains a few.
Yes, I noticed the part about 1942 games, few there, too bad.
I read the fortress Europe article and got quite inspired by it, reading up on it on this board in seperate threads. I used the superior placing of the Luftwaffe in France (british fleet sunk in the process due to my opponent somehow not noticing that I have 2 subs as cannon fodder). Played defensively and most was well (except for a stupid mistake as response to an R2 sub buy in the Black Sea). Too bad Japan self-destroyed on 4th/5th turn. I look forward to play more matches as Germany. I am not the only one, though. Everyone in our group wants to play Germany, and everyone is keen on trying their own special tech, no matter how loud I cringe :-)
Maybe try a 1 vs 1 game where you can be both Japan and Germany? Sounds like every Axis loss could be attributed to your friends wrecking your plans :-(
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@El:
Everyone in our group wants to play Germany, and everyone is keen on trying their own special tech, no matter how loud I cringe :-)
Let them try. :)
I play hundreds of games online using TripleA but when I play face to face with my friends I just shrug my shoulders everytime one of my team partners decides to do something crazy, like not buying anything that round, so that on the next round he’ll have a ton of money to try to surprise our opponent. To me it’s a crazy move that never solves anything but I stopped trying to lecture them and just have fun. It’s hard for me not to give opinions on what they should buy or attack but unless it is something very critical I nowadays make an effort to shut up unless they ask my opinion. People learn more when they are allowed to make their own mistakes.
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Hey Hobbes, out of curiosity, do you play the allies or axis more? Do you win more often with one side versus the other?
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Hey Hobbes, out of curiosity, do you play the allies or axis more? Do you win more often with one side versus the other?
I play both equally, i usually just let my opponent choose sides. Regarding winning more with one side or another, I say that it seems balanced but this view is certainly biased since it is not usual for me to lose a game playing 1v1.
There are a few quirks though regarding each side that have an impact on the balance between sides, besides the higher production level of the Allies or the initial unit placement for the Axis. The Allies cooperate themselves more naturally than the Axis. Allied collaboration is usually more ‘tactical’ (regarding occupying/reinforcing territories/areas) but Axis collaboration is more ‘strategic’, like Japan moving fast to take Novo/Kazakh to force Russia to split its forces and spend units instead of using all to position itself to prepare for Germany’s round.
Axis have a steeper learning curve, I’d say, to use their advantages and negate the Allies’ ones. And if you are playing Axis with teammates there’s a tendency for G/J players to think more of their own backyards than the whole situation.
Germany is the best example. If the Allies go KGF and it can’t defend itself as Japan is taking Russia then the Axis lose. If the Allies go KJF and it doesn’t take Russia, the Axis lose again. If the Allies go both… then it has to make the right choices. Meanwhile, the Allies can and should sacrifice Russia if that’s the price to pay to take Germany. That option is not available to the Axis.
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IMO in a game between experienced players, Axis has a small advantage. But that edge can easily be upended by first round dice. Axis can fall behind dramatically on G1 if any of SZ2, SZ13, SZ15, or Egypt fail.
The reason novices commonly think Allies have the advantage is that Axis has to be played well in the first few rounds in order to capitalize on their opportunities. If Axis doesn’t come forward where it’s supposed to then the Allied economic advantage will quickly assert itself.
I think if you presented this game to 2 players who are already experts in Classic or Revised then Axis would win the majority of games, and it would take them a while to develop suitable Allied strategies.
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@El:
Maybe try a 1 vs 1 game where you can be both Japan and Germany? Sounds like every Axis loss could be attributed to your friends wrecking your plans :-(
Will probably happen soon. The Axis losses can be attributed mainly to the inexperience of 3 of our group, who still have to figure out that it’s 1942, not 1941 :-)
Actually the two most experienced players played Allies more often. The Japanese player I played with had lost a single match up to his back-to-back bloopers when he played with me.As soon as everyone will figure out that there is no magic wand for the Axis that makes you win, matches will get more interesting.
But you need to play very precise moves which maximize your potential in the first 3-4 rounds.
Furthermore react on any bad moves from the Allies and capitalize on them.
And on top of it you need a very very good feeling for the necessity of your ressources, because overcommiting (Japanese Navy; Africa) our undercommiting to any theatre and not using the ressources to maximum effect (like strafes against Russia with the tanks; Or taking the infantry of the islands as Japan) will make a steep hill even steeper.EDIT: And actually I myself play mistakes on a regular basis. Only difference is that mine are original :-)
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I think novice players tend to be a bit more conservative. Being conservative hurts the axis more than the allies being conservative I think. With the axis having a better opening setup than the allies, they really need to maximize that before the allies can maximize their initial economic advantage.
A good way to learn is to play a game against yourself, but beyond the first few rounds it tends to lose its potential as a learning tool I would think. It lets you script out the first few rounds of a strategy and counters but sooner or later the next step of learning is how to take advantage of good dice and how to do damage control with bad dice, basically how to take advantage of opportunities.
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I think novice players tend to be a bit more conservative. Being conservative hurts the axis more than the allies being conservative I think. With the axis having a better opening setup than the allies, they really need to maximize that before the allies can maximize their initial economic advantage.
A good way to learn is to play a game against yourself, but beyond the first few rounds it tends to lose its potential as a learning tool I would think. It lets you script out the first few rounds of a strategy and counters but sooner or later the next step of learning is how to take advantage of good dice and how to do damage control with bad dice, basically how to take advantage of opportunities.
I completely agree, and playing against myself is exactly how I learned the most, followed by playing 1-on-1 against really good players online.
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