And it would be possible as well. Most times when Japan attacks round 1, it involves all the ships leaving SZ 6 and all the planes leaving Japan, so there would be nothing to defend those shiny new transports.
Sealion alpha 2+
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I believe the idea behind G4 Sea Lion is to ensure you prepare adequate defenses against Russia. If Japan violates the NAP, all Germany has to do is hold Baltic States, Bessarabia and E. Poland (to prevent Russia from getting NOs for Europe territories).
Assuming you own the Atlantic, putting a submarine in SZ 125 will stop Russia from collecting more than the 1 NO for taking Norway (if you let them take it.) Eventually, Russia will have to send something back against Japan and then it’s a matter of getting a strength so Germany and Japan weaken and Italy takes Moscow. (Hey, you gotta figure Germany has Karelia and Stalingrad so Italy is the one that needs the complex the most, right?)
Just my opinion, never actually went the G4 route, but it does seem to be more secure and does not commit you as readily. (You can go 50/50 tranny/military two rounds instead of 100% tranny one round.)
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I’m on board with a G3 sealion, but then for the Germans to turn and fight Russia while still covering their backs in the Atlantic? For me I have struggled with an experienced American player, does Germany maybe play defense against the Russians and be aggressive towards the Americans along with the Italians? (i know its about off topic, sorry).
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Having failed to focus on the Atlantic after the fall of Moscow, I think Germany should focus on submarines to keep America away. At the very best, 13 submarines down by America would effectively kill their production capacity.
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G4 sea lion occurs when germany is feeling very conservative… and wants to ensure victory.
G3 you drop all your guys on scotland. G4 you pick up off europe and drop on UK.
G4 is all troop buy… I can see a tactical bomber in the mix if you can fill the boats you already have.
So you should effectively have 20-26 units + air… plus whatever is still alive in scotland.
G4 is not that bad actually. you do suffer a shitload less casualties most of the time. -
@Cow:
G4 sea lion occurs when germany is feeling very conservative… and wants to ensure victory.
G3 you drop all your guys on scotland. G4 you pick up off europe and drop on UK.
G4 is all troop buy… I can see a tactical bomber in the mix if you can fill the boats you already have.
So you should effectively have 20-26 units + air… plus whatever is still alive in scotland.
G4 is not that bad actually. you do suffer a shitload less casualties most of the time.Cow is right, I’ve done both G3 and G4 before- though in Alpha +1. In Alpha +2, G4 seems a little easier and G3 seems a little harder. in G4, You will lose a couple of German tts but you will get them back later. You get the cash and the takeover, but Russia is able to sustain itself longer. And yes Japan would have to put pressure on US for sure.
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G4 is more definite, but if you came out of G1 relatively unscathed, G3 is pretty definite as well and gives you more cash earlier. (you’ll get an extra 5 IPC for the extra round holding London and you get the British Treasury a round earlier. This does not take into consideration units you won’t lose due to British return fire on newly purchased guys.)
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Gamblers do G3. G4 is for people who prefer the sure shot.
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Mantlefan- yes that extra plane buy in Brit makes all the difference a lot of times- good point (punch count proves it- don’t have the numbers on me though)
Jenn- right again, you must monitor G1 and G2 then decide.
Cow- Very true
We really have to play these opening further down into the rounds to get more of an overall feel still…
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If Britain is willing to give up the Med, G-anything becomes a very difficult operation. I guess the benefit of taking the UK out of the game (in Europe atleast) can be worth the risk, but, I’m not sold on the concept.
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Play tested against who? I’m free for a forum game or two if you want to explore the merits of a Sea Lion attempt, I doubt you’ll win 88% of the time. I’ve looked at the odds, and I just dont believe it’s such a given. I think play testers might have caught on to that. Granted you do have to let Italy run a bit wild, but, if you have to Choose between London and Cairo, you choose London.
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No, what I don’t realize is what is attacking to clear the Brit navy? You do know that scrambling is optional, right? If I dont like the odds, I save my fighters, then what is guarding your own transports? I don’t feel the need to argue endlessly, so we can just say we disagree, though, once again, I’m not above finding out if this works or not thru a forum game or two.
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I use UK’s naval to fight italy. I even bring the pacific fleet in. hell yes.
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So wait, Mantle, what you are saying is that you sacrifice the Battleboat and attack SZ 111, SZ 112 and SZ 110 on Germany 1? ~ bit confused, sorry. I love the idea of sinking both British battleboats before people like Cow can use them to aggrevate my Italian cruise liners (I will call them warships when they ACT LIKE WARSHIPS!)
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SZ 110 is the English Channel.
I really want some numbers on how to hit SZ 111 and SZ 110 (both British Battleships) even if it means not attacking SZ 91 (off Gibraltar) or SZ 103 (off Canada). There has to be a way to kill both those battleboats.
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Know you the odds for those naval engagements?
Calculator you have to force: http://www.campusactivism.org/aacalc/
Calculator that may be reliable: http://www.dskelly.com/misc/aa/aasim.html
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I am okay with forgetting the Italian Air Defense League and letting England hit what they will. Personally, I would rather have the fighters for Germany and I know a few players here that will attack the Italian fleet ONLY if Germany puts fighters down there to scramble, with the hopes of sinking extra German aircraft. I am beginning to lean that way myself now.
So I guess I need maximal punch in SZ 111, SZ 110, SZ 112 and, if possible, hitting SZ 91.
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Mantlefan’s right- the numbers are for you but you have to skip Normandy for a turn, which is not too bad.
Problem is that by skipping Normandy and you fail to sink ship in z91, 106, or 109 then Brits can send in more troops and make it a stiff defense for England from Sealion. Germany may abort even or go for the risky G4 Sealion. Alpha+2 was designed this way. You can do Sealion if things go your way or under the right conditions but you will give something up in return- some imbalance elsewhere
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Yes, but that is always the case. SZ 106 is never a given as you really have pretty bad odds of surviving and only even odds of sinking the destroyer, leaving the transport to live for another day. If there was a place to put the submarine to use later and not be at risk of the british destroyer sinking it, I might even give up that battle and wait for better odds.
In regards to the cruiser in SZ 91, I would rather have the Battleship in SZ 110, to be truthful. It gives England another ship to send at the Italian fleet, but it gives Germany better odds in London.
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Sealion is no longer doable as a G 3.
But here is your BEST mix:
Sz111
2 sb 1 fht 1 tac 1 bmbSz110
2 sb 3 fht 3 tacSz 112
1 CA 1 BB (there is still 1 fht 1 tac that can be used here)If he scrambles, if the battle in sz110 goes to odds, Sealion goes up approx. 20 percent.
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Problem is that by skipping Normandy and you fail to sink ship in z91, 106, or 109 then Brits can send in more troops and make it a stiff defense for England from Sealion. Germany may abort even or go for the risky G4 Sealion. Alpha+2 was designed this way. You can do Sealion if things go your way or under the right conditions but you will give something up in return- some imbalance elsewhere
You give the designer’s WAY too much credit.
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