Japanese Strategy

[Jennifer]

I seriously wonder if China is worth it.  Combined I think it’s 1 Victory City, 23 IPC (not including Hong Kong and Korea.)  Wouldn’t it be possible to hold some of the more important land, yield the lesser stuff and position for a stronger attack on ANZAC/East India territories?  It guals me seeing England/ANZAC getting the NO for all those islands (and the income) without really being able to do much against them.

[ThomasJefferson]

If the game is gonna last more than 5 turns, and the Japanese want to hold onto their asia holdings, they gotta take out at least one of the 3 allies, the Chinese, the Ruskies, or the English. If you sit back and try to hold on to your territory with out attacking, you will start to lose it turn 5. Plus, if you use your airforce, you can usually take out the chicoms with the units you start with, and in that way you are putting those units to use, where they are rusting doing nothing if you sit back and play defensive.

[Jennifer]

Well, to clarify I’m looking at Alpha 2 set up, so the Japanese air force has been decimated.  Okay, about 5 or 6 planes were removed, but its still a major change from OOB.

Anyway, I was not thinking about completely ignoring China without filling the gap elsewhere.  I was thinking of using 3 or 4 turns to really build up in SE Asia and pounding ANZAC/England the round before America comes into the game anyway.  The thought process was more like “Waste 200 IPC in China to stop them from building 100 IPC in units or get a fleet and secure the SE Pacific” but I’m not really sure on the feasibility of that either.

[MadPup77]

@Cmdr:

I seriously wonder if China is worth it.  Combined I think it’s 1 Victory City, 23 IPC (not including Hong Kong and Korea.)  Wouldn’t it be possible to hold some of the more important land, yield the lesser stuff and position for a stronger attack on ANZAC/East India territories?  It guals me seeing England/ANZAC getting the NO for all those islands (and the income) without really being able to do much against them.

I think china is worth it, but not all of it. Send a few men here and there, just to keep them on the down low. Focus most of your Transport men/art/tanks on India, and ANZAC. Like I said before, a minor factory, and 3 tanks a turn does a lot in that area. Yes that 18 IPCs, but still if you do the job right, you end up earning 60-70 IPCs a round.

~MadPup~

[Jennifer]

Minor IC goes where, in your mind?

[eudemonist]

@Cmdr:

Minor IC goes where, in your mind?

Heck no!  For implanted comlinks, I want MAJOR IC!  I’m talking black like night, chummer.  That thing runs my gun arm and my smartlink–ain’t takin’ no chances.  Minor IC might be suitable for a Rebreather or sumpin’.

[FieldMarshalGames]

I thought that you could not build a Major IC on foreign soil?  If this is the Case, as Japan you must build a Minor IC, or have a major all the way in Korea.

Am I right?

[eudemonist]

Yes.

[Jennifer]

You can build a major industrial complex in Korea.  Korea is worth 3 IPC.  Thing is, I am not sure if it is worth it since yer right next to Japan and I doubt Japan’s going to have 30 IPC for ground forces to fill Korea + enough for 6+ naval ships to make adequate (in my mind) use of the home IC.

[MadPup77]

@Cmdr:

Minor IC goes where, in your mind?

I put it in Shanghai.

@FieldMarshalGames:

I thought that you could not build a Major IC on foreign soil?

I knew that, but if you capture a IC, you convert it to a minor. Now can you upgrade it to a major, even though its on foreign soil? Or can’t you?

Also is my signature to big, or is it fine? I got kicked off other forums for pictures being too big.

~MadPup~

[Axisplaya]

Personally, i prefer a Minor IC in Kwangtung, but of course, it depends on WHEN you build it…

You can’t upgrade a minor IC on foreign soil, even if it was a Major IC before you took it. I mean, you can’t do that with Alpha 1 and 2, but you could do it with OOB.

And i dunno about the size of your signature…

:mrgreen:

[Jennifer]

I dont see a “Kwangtung” on the map, but maybe I mistook some other name for it.  Anyway, no, you cannot upgrade an Industrial on foreign territory to a major either, if you own the land and it isnt “your” land (colored on the map for you) then you cannot have a major complex on it no matter what.  That means, even though Malaysa is worth 3 IPC, Japan can never have a major complex on it.  That also means the only territory Japan can have a Major complex on, except Japan, is Korea.

[Axisplaya]

Adjacent to Kwangsi and Kiangsi, it’s a UK India territory, hence the “it depends on when you build it”….

[MadPup77]

@Cmdr:

Anyway, no, you cannot upgrade an Industrial on foreign territory to a major either, if you own the land and it isnt “your” land (colored on the map for you) then you cannot have a major complex on it no matter what.

@Axisplaya:

You can’t upgrade a minor IC on foreign soil, even if it was a Major IC before you took it. I mean, you can’t do that with Alpha 1 and 2, but you could do it with OOB.

Okay, thanks for the clarification. I guess my opponent and I will have to revise our purchases. ;)

Thanks for the quick reply! Didn’t even have a chance to log off!  :lol:

~MadPup~

[Jennifer]

You can logoff???

lol

Anyway, yea, that was a nice rule.  The whole idea of an Allied major on Europe proper is rather unsettling when one considers just how much the American’s earn per round. (I’d like to see that removed actually, give them 30 IPC for having Guam, Hawaii, Midway, the Alutians and the Philippines and not for having the 48 Contiguous United States…and dropping it to 10 isnt enough, IMHO.  It can stay 30, because if Japan cannot manage to get at least ONE chain, Japan’s being run very badly.  At least early in the game.)

[jsp4563]

It’s my understanding that if Japan attacks UK\ANZAC the US is free to declare war against all axis forces.  That seems suicidal as the US immediately gets upgraded IC’s and a huge NO boost to income, Germany\Italy need those first 3 rounds of US neutrality.  Japan really has no choice but to concentrate on China until at least round 3 or UK\ANZAC declares war. IMHO.

[ThomasJefferson]

I concur, Especially since the Japanese get 10 IPC’s for not going to war, that helps subsidize the cost of not going to war. In the theatre game only it makes total sense to go to war turn 1. But if Japan attacks turn 1, then they are writing a death sentence for Italy.

[MadPup77]

@Emperor:

Japan really has no choice but to concentrate on China until at least round 3

This is true, and not true…

@MadPup77:

@Cmdr:

I seriously wonder if China is worth it.  Combined I think it’s 1 Victory City, 23 IPC (not including Hong Kong and Korea.)  Wouldn’t it be possible to hold some of the more important land, yield the lesser stuff and position for a stronger attack on ANZAC/East India territories?  It guals me seeing England/ANZAC getting the NO for all those islands (and the income) without really being able to do much against them.

I think china is worth it, but not all of it. Send a few men here and there, just to keep them on the down low. Focus most of your Transport men/art/tanks on India, and ANZAC. Like I said before, a minor factory, and 3 tanks a turn does a lot in that area. Yes that 18 IPCs, but still if you do the job right, you end up earning 60-70 IPCs a round.

Now I think that you should spend those 3 turns preparing mostly for the invasion of India and/or ANZAC.

As I have said before, that Minor IC in Shanghai does wonders for me.

@ThomasJefferson:

But if Japan attacks turn 1, then they are writing a death sentence for Italy.

How so for Italy??? Italy is already at war with UK. Unless this is changed in Alpha rules??

(I use OOB rules)

~MadPup~

[Guest]

US is in then

[JamesAleman]

Background: This post is in response to the Alpha 2 rules. I have set up the board but not played it. I am aware of the number of pieces added and moved compared to the Out Of Box (OOB) placement for which I have many games played regarding the Pacific Theater.

I agree with Jennifer that Australia can be an area of focus early on. I disagree with believing China is not worth it. I have ignored China to my peril. When playing Japan I select from 1 of the following 2 strategies:

1. India first with an early drive on China, secure south pacific islands and focus on Hawaii or Australia last for the win.

2. Cripple Australia first (staging on Caroline Islands) sweep to the south pacific islands choke off India and use minor factories to hold mainland victory cities. Capture Hawaii and Australia for the win, leaving India and W.US as the only allied cities.

I believe Japan has been given plenty of Infantry on mainland Asia to drive China into a manageable box, if not take them out. Many people have put forward the best ways to take India first, so I will focus on option 2, and address Jennifer’s desired approach. I believe this is a harder approach to victory, but a viable choice.

This theory-craft is not tested, but is loosely based on other experiences, it is not my intent to make a blanket statement or imply certain success. Care should be taken when employing any strategy that is not well understood ,executed, or proven successful. Reader discretion is advised.

An early key to crippling Anzac is the 2 starting subs Japan begins the game with. I would suggest a starting purchase of 2 subs and 2 transports in addition to your starting fleet. I suspect you will want to keep the US neutral for 3 turns, so Anzac will have the opportunity to expand, however their NO’s are tied to being at war, so they are likely to collect them once as Japan will be poised to cripple their economy swiftly.

From Caroline Islands, subs can reach convoy zones off of New South wales and Queensland. 3 subs will see Anzac brought to 5 IPCs, with 3 transports, New Zealand, W. Australia, and new Britain will remove 3 more IPCs and all NOs. Philippines, Celebes Islands and Java are all in range of Caroline Islands as well. By staging 6 or more transports loaded with units on Caroline Islands, Anzac will be forced to build land units and keep them in New South Wales.

Turn 1, the whole fleet should be moved to Caroline Islands and Paulau(ships that can’t make Caroline). This threat of a turn 2 assault should keep Anzac from building navy. So to summarize on turn 3 or 4, when Japan spreads out from Caroline, Australia will be brought to 2 IPCs(+2 if they have Brazil), they get 3 if they manage to retake W. Australia. Taking New Britain keeps Anzac from having its island chain and original territories NO.

Staging the whole fleet on the Carolines will see the US pull its fleet back to W. US in all likelihood unless they are going Japan first. If New south wales can be taken with Hawaii by turn 7, you should still hold your starting cities and have a win.

Remember transports built in Japan can help you take Phillippines back from UK or in seizing Hawaii. If Anzac builds 3 units a turn, they will have 18 land units plus allied planes on turn 4. In theory, you can have your air force on Caroline by turn 3. They can land on New Zealand turn 4 if you capture it on turn 3 (grab Northwest territory or W. Australia too on turn 4 when you land air force), giving you range to hit New south wales with your whole air force and land on W or N. Australia by turn 5. (a few planes can be kept on Caroline to protect transports if they land on carriers off New South Wales). 3-6 loaded transports with your air force should be enough to take it on round 5 if this plan works. If you are not ready to take on turn 5 due to other air power needs, you will have choked off Anzacs wealth.

I envision most of Japan’s builds being transports and land units maybe 1 or 2 complexes, India could go navy early on, but should not be able to destroy Japan’s fleet. China will be fought with starting pieces, ignoring Russia will free up 12 more land units to drive on China with.

Just some food for thought. Comments anyone?