ALPHA + 3!

[Gargantua]

OMG! ARGENTINA IS PRO AXIS NOW!

http://www.harrisgamedesign.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=4222

CANADA IS It’s OWN Nation!

LOLZ!

Fools!  Made you look! :D

Hahaha

Come on, someone had to… There are so many variations now… And WORSE, there are people on Harris Design forum already spouting this Alpha 3 Nonsense.  They should be stopped.  It is OUR responsibility as fans to do so.

Everyone here, should go to that thread there (Alpha +3 theory craft) And tell each and everyone of those ID-10-T’s to hang themselves, and deal with it.  Alpha + 2 should be final - and Submitted.

[HannibalSW]

I almost clicked, but then saw all the empty space below and scrolled down, knowing what was coming.  I did feel foolish, for a second.

[Gargantua]

Hahaha! Honesty.

I respect that.

[Stickman]

Got me  :roll:

Alpha 2 should be the one and only. I’m done having this game tweaked and look forward to finally playing a game that won’t be changed in a week.

[The Dessert Fox]

I wish we just played OOB and if it was not balanced just bid. I wish alpha never happened

[FieldMarshalGames]

:-D

Now that was FUNNY!

[koba]

Honestly, that was so unfair.

I just got finished running over Alpha+2 with my opponent and coming to a conclusion that our issues have been addressed; then this.  Had me going… :-P

Hopefully we get a reprint as it stands. Though I do think we’re going to use a house rule about breaching a non-aggression pact between the USSR and Japan.

[The Fire Knight]

@The:

I wish we just played OOB and if it was not balanced just bid. I wish alpha never happened

Good for you. I really don’t see what’s wrong with revising a broken game but… if it suits you then go play the original with someone who agrees with you. It’s not like we’re forcing you to participate/improve/play it. However, some people, including the creator of axis and allies and this G40 don’t share you’re opinion, me included. If the game that i paid 150$ for isn’t balanced or perfect, i think it makes sense to revise it. And Gargantua, although i’m sure you’re an axis and allies balance genius and although you put in soooo much effort to create alpha +.2 (didn’t see you there making it till now) what you fail to realize is that the same people who made alpha 2 would still make alpha 3. So since it obviously wouldn’t de-prove I’m not sure what problem you have with it. It doesn’t look like larry is going to be doing an official alpha 3 anytime soon, if ever. But that doesn’t mean that the game is perfect, or that people can’t suggest changes and post their ideas. Blind posts of “perfection” and “let’s just balance this with a bid” are stupid, pointless, and really don’t help

[Idi Amin]

@Gargantua:

OMG! ARGENTINA IS PRO AXIS NOW!

http://www.harrisgamedesign.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=4222

CANADA IS It’s OWN Nation!

Wow I guess I have some more Alpha toilet paper!

LOLZ!

Fools!  Made you look! :D

Hahaha

Come on, someone had to… There are so many variations now… And WORSE, there are people on Harris Design forum already spouting this Alpha 3 Nonsense.  They should be stopped.  It is OUR responsibility as fans to do so.

Everyone here, should go to that thread there (Alpha +3 theory craft) And tell each and everyone of those ID-10-T’s to hang themselves, and deal with it.  Alpha + 2 should be final - and Submitted.

[Jennifer]

Bidding is cool until you realize that Germany needed like 100 IPC bid, Italy did (and now needs even more) a 20 IPC bid and Japan at least 15 IPC for 2 tanks and 1 infantry in Korea to discourage a Russian pre-strike.

I do like the alphas, I think the British fleet in the med is super over powering however and would be much happier if they were moved off the cost of Nigeria in SZ 82 instead.  This would give them the ability to survive Germany 1 (which I think was the original idea, at least if it was not, someone mentioned it to me, it was not a reason I thought of myself) while still giving Italy a chance to DO something before getting crushed.

There is a very strong British open that sinks both halves of the Italian fleet (and any scrambled fighters if they scramble) at a moderate cost to the British fleet + takes Greece for the income/infantry that now are reinforced and harder for Germany to take out (or Italy.)

I strongly and vehemently dislike this and, without buffing the Italian fleet which is buff enough, thank you, the only real solution seems to be to move the British fleet somewhere it is safe but usable.  Brazil is an option, but not plausible.  Nigeria is plausible, the fleet would be down there to protect British colonial interestes in Africa.

Otherwise, I’d like to see the SBR rules dropped back to classic-ish. 1 Bomber, 2 Dice IC, AB or NB,  1 Tactical 1 Die, AB or NB and the only defense is AA Gun shots. (Since all those targets automatically have an AA Gun anyway.)  No more escprts, no more interceptors.

[MEGAEINSTEIN]

this is becoming a little bit out of sense.

Alpha has good things but abbolishing the capacity of subs counter attack unescorted transports is absurd as the poll that is still going on indicates.

[cts17]

@Cmdr:

I do like the alphas, I think the British fleet in the med is super over powering however and would be much happier if they were moved off the cost of Nigeria in SZ 82 instead.  This would give them the ability to survive Germany 1 (which I think was the original idea, at least if it was not, someone mentioned it to me, it was not a reason I thought of myself) while still giving Italy a chance to DO something before getting crushed.

There is a very strong British open that sinks both halves of the Italian fleet (and any scrambled fighters if they scramble) at a moderate cost to the British fleet + takes Greece for the income/infantry that now are reinforced and harder for Germany to take out (or Italy.)

I strongly and vehemently dislike this and, without buffing the Italian fleet which is buff enough, thank you, the only real solution seems to be to move the British fleet somewhere it is safe but usable.  Brazil is an option, but not plausible.  Nigeria is plausible, the fleet would be down there to protect British colonial interestes in Africa.

How on earth do the British manage that!?! They have 4, maybe 5 fighters, 1 tactical, 2 Crusiers and 1 DD to bring in. The Italians have 2 DD 2 CA 1 SS 1 BB 2 fighters 1 tactical. Cancel out the same units, that leaves us with 3/4 fighters against 1 BB 1 DD 1 SS 1 fig. True, you may have a British carrier to send into the fray as damage absorber, but you still don’t know which way those planes are scrambling. The Axis could easily choose to abandon the one side and attack the other side. It’s not a moderate cost, it’s complete annilihation for both nations, which I personally feel works in the Italians’ favour.

[Jennifer]

No, they have 1 fighter they can bring in.  North Italy does not have an Airbase to scramble fighters for.

SZ 97: Aircraft Carrier, Cruiser, 2 Fighters against 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiesr (1 fighter maybe)

Carrier, Destroyer from SZ 98 to SZ 97
2 Fighters from England to SZ 97
(Fighters can land on the carrier after battle, the tactical bomber can land on Malta)

Odds without Cover Air Patrol: 84%
Odds with Cover Air Patrol: 40% win, 40% mutual destruction (both are fine for me.)

SZ 95: Tactical Cruiser, Destroyer, 2 Fighters vs 2 Destroyer, Submarine, Cruiser
Cruiesr from SZ 91 to SZ 95
Fighter from Malta to SZ 95
Fighter from Gibraltar to SZ 95
Cruiers from SZ 98 to SZ 95

Odds without Cover Air Patrol: 92%
Odds with Cover Air Patrol: 60%

Finally, move one guy (or two) from Egypt to Greece, to get the Neutral and reinforcements. (2 IPC for the territory, 4 infantry.  6  Infantry can be some nice extra dmg to the Germans.)

Now, knowing the odds, most players are going to put their S. Italy fighter out to protect the Battleship.  But with 40% to destroy you and win, 40% to destroy you and be wiped out myself and only 20% you survive, I think it’s worth it.  I’ll still have boats left from SZ 95 (or not, lots of Fighters on Malta to hit your new builds with) and now England owns all of North Africa.

Maybe you are not liking 40/40/20 odds of failure, but then, you have to assume Italy’s going to use their fighter, maybe they do not?

If you look, strictly, at what naval ships and planes that can get to the battle you get:

England: 1 Aircraft Carrier, 1 Destroyer, 2 Cruisers, 1 Tactical Bomber, 1 Transport and 4 Fighters

Italy: 2 Destroyers, 2 Cruisers, 1 Battleship, 1 Submarine, 3 Transports

Now, I am not including transports for casualties, I am only including them in respect of how much money in units will be lost.

If you cancel like units (as you did) you get:

England: Aircraft Carrier, 1 Tactical Bomber, 3 Fighters
Italy: Battleship, 1 Destroyer, 1 Submarine

The carrier can take two hits, the battleship can take two hits.  So in that regards, they negate each other.

The extra punch England has is (3(3)+4)=13 (roughly 2 extra hits a round)
The extra punch Italy has is (4+2+1)=7 or roughly 1 extra hit a round.

I feel that either the testers were completely oblivious to the serious danger they put Italy in (essentially removing them from the game before Round 1) or they did so on purpose.

[Axisplaya]

@Cmdr:

No, they have 1 fighter they can bring in.  North Italy does not have an Airbase to scramble fighters for.

SZ 97: Aircraft Carrier, Cruiser, 2 Fighters against 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiesr (1 fighter maybe)

Carrier, Destroyer from SZ 98 to SZ 97
2 Fighters from England to SZ 97
(Fighters can land on the carrier after battle, the tactical bomber can land on Malta)

Odds without Cover Air Patrol: 84%
Odds with Cover Air Patrol: 40% win, 40% mutual destruction (both are fine for me.)

SZ 95: Tactical Cruiser, Destroyer, 2 Fighters vs 2 Destroyer, Submarine, Cruiser
Cruiesr from SZ 91 to SZ 95
Fighter from Malta to SZ 95
Fighter from Gibraltar to SZ 95
Cruiers from SZ 98 to SZ 95

Odds without Cover Air Patrol: 92%
Odds with Cover Air Patrol: 60%

Finally, move one guy (or two) from Egypt to Greece, to get the Neutral and reinforcements. (2 IPC for the territory, 4 infantry.  6  Infantry can be some nice extra dmg to the Germans.)

Now, knowing the odds, most players are going to put their S. Italy fighter out to protect the Battleship.  But with 40% to destroy you and win, 40% to destroy you and be wiped out myself and only 20% you survive, I think it’s worth it.  I’ll still have boats left from SZ 95 (or not, lots of Fighters on Malta to hit your new builds with) and now England owns all of North Africa.

Maybe you are not liking 40/40/20 odds of failure, but then, you have to assume Italy’s going to use their fighter, maybe they do not?

If you look, strictly, at what naval ships and planes that can get to the battle you get:

England: 1 Aircraft Carrier, 1 Destroyer, 2 Cruisers, 1 Tactical Bomber, 1 Transport and 4 Fighters

Italy: 2 Destroyers, 2 Cruisers, 1 Battleship, 1 Submarine, 3 Transports

Now, I am not including transports for casualties, I am only including them in respect of how much money in units will be lost.

If you cancel like units (as you did) you get:

England: Aircraft Carrier, 1 Tactical Bomber, 3 Fighters
Italy: Battleship, 1 Destroyer, 1 Submarine

The carrier can take two hits, the battleship can take two hits.  So in that regards, they negate each other.

The extra punch England has is (3(3)+4)=13 (roughly 2 extra hits a round)
The extra punch Italy has is (4+2+1)=7 or roughly 1 extra hit a round.

I feel that either the testers were completely oblivious to the serious danger they put Italy in (essentially removing them from the game before Round 1) or they did so on purpose.

You’re right, UK has a lot of punch in the med, but i still don’t like that UK move for at least 3 reasons.

1- It’s not “maybe” one fighter that will scramble in south Italia, but 3 (2 germain fighters will end up there on G1). Their primary target is now those 2 UK fighters so they will all scramble on SZ95.

2- Often ( somewhere between 35 and 45% i guess), you will not have the UK cruiser on SZ 91 for your attack as a germain sub will have sunk it on G1. Depending on that, one of the 3 figthers might scramble on SZ 97 instead of 95…and it could result with an italien win on both sides ! But of course, you may not make that UK attack with the loss of the SZ91 cruiser.

3- The loss of these 2 UK fighters is a great incentive for Sealion (G1 buy : the “classical” 1 Aircraft carrier and 2 transports).

I won’t pretend to be an expert with just a few games of Alpha+2, but so far, our UK players haven’t be willing to pull that 2 zones attack in the med.

[eudemonist]

Yeah, I think Germany really needs to get those planes down to Italy G1.  If they don’t, then yeah, could be very bad for Italia.

[Idi Amin]

@eudemonist:

Yeah, I think Germany really needs to get those planes down to Italy G1.  If they don’t, then yeah, could be very bad for Italia.

How, I don’t how 2 planes can attack the UK fleet and fly all the way to souther Italy. Kindly tell me which planes your talking about.

[cts17]

Fighter from Hungary and 1 other air unit from else where. Generally a tactical or fighter from West Germany that was used against France in combat.

[Axisplaya]

@Idi:

@eudemonist:

Yeah, I think Germany really needs to get those planes down to Italy G1.  If they don’t, then yeah, could be very bad for Italia.

How, I don’t how 2 planes can attack the UK fleet and fly all the way to souther Italy. Kindly tell me which planes your talking about.

There is more than 1 solution to this,  but here is what i did last time i played germany :

1 figther (from Western Germany or Norway) attacks SZ 112 and then NCM to southern Italia.
1 fighter for Slovakia/Hungary NCM to southern Italy.

True : the slovakia fighter not participating to any combat on G1 might seem like an heresy to many players, but i don’t care ! My goal is to protect the italian fleet.
On that G1, i have wiped almost the entire UK fleet with losing only one plane ! SZ 106 and 91 have been “cleaned”. The only SZ i didn’t attack was SZ 109.

[Gargantua]

I agree with Axisplaya.

You can use the Hungary fighter in the battle for Yugoslavia, on it’s way to southern italy.

The Norway fighter sees combat too in Sz112.

[Axisplaya]

@Gargantua:

I agree with Axisplaya.

You can use the Hungary fighter in the battle for Yugoslavia, on it’s way to southern italy.

Oops…forgot to do that last time i played, but it won’t happen again !