@barnee that’s what I do :>>>>
The key to (killing) Russia's heart is in Nenetsia, 2.0
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Oh noes Italy sends a fighter(s) from N. Italy to SZ 125 on its turn; OH NOES MY PLANZ ARE RUINED!!!11!!!1one
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Looks like some members here are unbalanced :-)
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Oh noes Italy sends a fighter(s) from N. Italy to SZ 125 on its turn; OH NOES MY PLANZ ARE RUINED!!!11!!!1one
LOL.
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@SalothSar:
To stop this masterplan all the Russians have to do is put naval units in Sz 125,126 & 112…. 3 seperate targets for that huge Italian airforce. An experienced USSR player would see the Japanese airbase is meant for them and move/buy forces accordingly. No Japanese player would ever build an airbase in Northern China to attack Chinese units or British in India.
Germans attack Z125 with sub plus massive airforce, killing it and cancelling NO.
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@SalothSar:
To stop this masterplan all the Russians have to do is put naval units in Sz 125,126 & 112…. 3 seperate targets for that huge Italian airforce. An experienced USSR player would see the Japanese airbase is meant for them and move/buy forces accordingly. No Japanese player would ever build an airbase in Northern China to attack Chinese units or British in India.
True, but in order to do this, Russia would need to buy, at a minimum three destroyers, since a lone enemy sub can be ignored. 24 ipc is not an inconsequential amount of money for Russia. Since this has the potential of a G3 move for Germany, Russia would have to do the purchase on R1 so that they could move them into blocking position on R2. What Russian player is going to do a three destroyer build on R1? Also, Japan doesn’t even buy the air base until J2 which would be way too late for Russia to respond with a naval build. R2 already happened!!! Germany goes next which means G3 happens and there isn’t anything Russia can do in response to the Japanese air field/air force movement.
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@SalothSar:
@SalothSar:
To stop this masterplan all the Russians have to do is put naval units in Sz 125,126 & 112…. 3 seperate targets for that huge Italian airforce. An experienced USSR player would see the Japanese airbase is meant for them and move/buy forces accordingly. No Japanese player would ever build an airbase in Northern China to attack Chinese units or British in India.
True, but in order to do this, Russia would need to buy, at a minimum three destroyers, since a lone enemy sub can be ignored. 24 ipc is not an inconsequential amount of money for Russia. Since this has the potential of a G3 move for Germany, Russia would have to do the purchase on R1 so that they could move them into blocking position on R2. What Russian player is going to do a three destroyer build on R1? Also, Japan doesn’t even buy the air base until J2 which would be way too late for Russia to respond with a naval build. R2 already happened!!! Germany goes next which means G3 happens and there isn’t anything Russia can do in response to the Japanese air field/air force movement.
I like the first word in your reply, “TRUE” so you agree you masterplan can be easily stopped!
IF (note this first word) you waste nearly a round of income to buy ships, even before any sign of this “masterplan”. Sounds better to me to buy 8 inf instead and move another 8 to in Nenetsia ASAP. At least those will later be useful.
I might consider 1 DD turn 1 though.Edit: Might make more sense to put some INF and ART in Archangel, and some mech/tanks within a 2 zone reach of nenetsia. That way, when Germany gets there, you have the chance to kick them out. If you retake it, Japan’s planes won’t be landing anywhere.
If they manage to get Nene ànd land planes, it’ll be Russia’s job (playing inbetween Germany and Japan) to try to take advantage of the moment both axis troops split up.
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@SalothSar:
@SalothSar:
To stop this masterplan all the Russians have to do is put naval units in Sz 125,126 & 112…. 3 seperate targets for that huge Italian airforce. An experienced USSR player would see the Japanese airbase is meant for them and move/buy forces accordingly. No Japanese player would ever build an airbase in Northern China to attack Chinese units or British in India.
True, but in order to do this, Russia would need to buy, at a minimum three destroyers, since a lone enemy sub can be ignored. 24 ipc is not an inconsequential amount of money for Russia. Since this has the potential of a G3 move for Germany, Russia would have to do the purchase on R1 so that they could move them into blocking position on R2. What Russian player is going to do a three destroyer build on R1? Also, Japan doesn’t even buy the air base until J2 which would be way too late for Russia to respond with a naval build. R2 already happened!!! Germany goes next which means G3 happens and there isn’t anything Russia can do in response to the Japanese air field/air force movement.
I like the first word in your reply, “TRUE” so you agree you masterplan can be easily stopped!
No, it is not easily stopped. To do the naval blocks that you suggest with the Russian naval units, they would have to purchase at minimum three destroyers on R1. What Russian player would spend 24 ipc on R1 for three destroyers? If they wait until R2 to respond, it is too late and they can’t stop it!!! Now, they can move there ground units around to have a counter attack into Nenetsia as some have suggested, but if those ground units are in Archangel or another adjacent territory to Nenetsia, then they aren’t at the western front waiting for Germany!
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@SalothSar:
@SalothSar:
@SalothSar:
To stop this masterplan all the Russians have to do is put naval units in Sz 125,126 & 112…. 3 seperate targets for that huge Italian airforce. An experienced USSR player would see the Japanese airbase is meant for them and move/buy forces accordingly. No Japanese player would ever build an airbase in Northern China to attack Chinese units or British in India.
True, but in order to do this, Russia would need to buy, at a minimum three destroyers, since a lone enemy sub can be ignored. 24 ipc is not an inconsequential amount of money for Russia. Since this has the potential of a G3 move for Germany, Russia would have to do the purchase on R1 so that they could move them into blocking position on R2. What Russian player is going to do a three destroyer build on R1? Also, Japan doesn’t even buy the air base until J2 which would be way too late for Russia to respond with a naval build. R2 already happened!!! Germany goes next which means G3 happens and there isn’t anything Russia can do in response to the Japanese air field/air force movement.
I like the first word in your reply, “TRUE” so you agree you masterplan can be easily stopped!
No, it is not easily stopped. To do the naval blocks that you suggest with the Russian naval units, they would have to purchase at minimum three destroyers on R1. What Russian player would spend 24 ipc on R1 for three destroyers? If they wait until R2 to respond, it is too late and they can’t stop it!!! Now, they can move there ground units around to have a counter attack into Nenetsia as some have suggested, but if those ground units are in Archangel or another adjacent territory to Nenetsia, then they aren’t at the western front waiting for Germany!
Easily stopped
No, NOT easily stopped. Even IF the 3 DDs somehow succeeded in blocking off Nenetsia and stopping the Italian FIGs from blasting a way through, Germany could just be like: “Aw, screw this noise, I’m going to Britain after all!” and attempt a proper Sealion anyway. You’ve just spent 24 IPCs that could of been used on the Eastern Front doing much more useful things.
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Salothstar, unless you have great spies, you can’t know what your opponents are gonna do. Not on time.
So you’re gonna buy 3 DD’s every game when Germany buys fleet?
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No, NOT easily stopped. Even IF the 3 DDs somehow succeeded in blocking off Nenetsia and stopping the Italian FIGs from blasting a way through, Germany could just be like: “Aw, screw this noise, I’m going to Britain after all!” and attempt a proper Sealion anyway. You’ve just spent 24 IPCs that could of been used on the Eastern Front doing much more useful things.
That was my entire point about suggesting this strategy. Sealion is ALWAYS an option. If Russia is soooooooooooooo concerned about Germany pulling this off because it bought a carrier and two transports on G1, go ahead and buy the destroyers. Germany can still do a G3/G4 Sealion and then have fewer Russian ground units to deal with afterwards. This was never designed to be a strategy that you are monolithically locked into doing. It is something I wanted other players to be aware of in case Russia gets too big in its britches and pulls too many units away from Moscow or bought too many high priced units and thus have a unit deficiency.
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i’ve been following this post since it started and i thought of offering this:
if Germany waits to attack til G4 then japan won’t need an airbase to help out. by J3, Japan can land their planes in Suiyuyan and still clear vologda for germany and possibly use bombers to help clear out Russia.
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Gimmick win, if at all, with a proper Russian palyer IPM will win.
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IPM?
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IPM?
Another example of why this game will never be won, except in lucky situations, by gimmick moves that either “win” the game in 3-5 rounds or in the first round. Its called Infantry Push Mechanic and it has won every game that its used in. Read the boards of some of the other games to find out the details.
Even if you take Moscow for one turn,unlikely but possible, you have no supply line that is worth it to back it up. Your victory is only won for a round and then Germany is a hollow tiger, and so is Japan. You have hamstrung both major Axis powers to do this. No Atlantic wall, no reactionary force, no win. Not with sane allied builds and a strategic outlook.
I just played at a Convention and my team (of course we have played extensively together) would have won based on IPM, the constant supply of fodder without the loss of high powered units. The other team conceded, but it was a given with time considering their waste of high powered units…
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So, in other words, you’d rather play a game down to the lowest common denominator, infantry stacks, as standard a play as humanly possible, with no attempt at bluffing or subterfuge or camouflage? Wow, with the Axis having a net disadvantage against the +30 NO of the US from Round 4 on, you think having the Axis JOIN FORCES to take over Moscow by G5 is a bad idea? (And actually, the tank/air stacks combine on J3/G4!) 20 Jap planes and 16 German tanks thrown into the Soviet rear is absolutely nothing to worry about, according to IPM, right? (Oh wait, that’s ~320+ IPCs (with possibly MORE incoming each round from German transports off Norway OR more planes dumped into Chahar’s airbase) dropped into the Soviet rear… Russia’s $37 a turn is going to take care of it! YEAH…)
This is one of the best strategies I’ve seen yet, as there’s NO WAY the Japs can help out the Italians in the Med in any reasonable amount of time (which was often the case in AA50), and usually NO WAY to get Japanese and German stacks simultaneously sitting against Moscow (unless the Allies have really bobbled the ball and the game is obvious). This strategy ENSURES that the Soviets will be forced to consolidate around their capital, and no matter what they do, it may still not be enough, if the Jap player uses his planes suicidally to open a hole for the Germans. ITALIAN CAN OPENERS ARE A JOKE COMPARED TO THIS.
Plus, even if the seizure of Moscow IS temporary, it throws the Soviets into disarray for several rounds, they lose a turn of production, and Axis forces can run rampant all over while they retake the capital. I assure you that the Soviets dropping the ball, even for a short period of time, in this version of AA with even greater distances and number of territories, usually means they’re going to keel over, as each map (Europe and Pacific) pretty much plays on its own.
ALSO, the best part about this strategy is that there is no real commitment until Germany 2, when you build the 5 TRN and the Major IC; you can always just call it off or go for Sealion (or just go for Sealion anyway on G3, if it looks favorable).
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Some people say, so what to Nenetsia? Russia builds all inf/art/mech and keeps them in range of Moscow. Well, if Russia does that, it relieves pressure on the German/Russian front and they can still do Sealion without Russia being ready to beat down their door. All that for the price of one Japanese air base to threaten Russia? Seems like a good deal to me if it causes them to go out of position.
People, there is a lot more to this Nenetsia threat than what I’ve posted so far. It doesn’t just have to result in the killing of Moscow. This thing has really been doing laps in my mind and I continue to come up with more variations on this.
NENETSIA THREAT 2.1
Round 1
G1
Purchase: Carrier and minor complex (save 2 ipc)
Combat: Same as before
Placement: Carrier goes into SZ 112 and minor complex into Romania
Collect 68 + 2 saved = 70 ipcJ1
Take Chahar as strong as possible and put all planes in range of it as before.I1
Do what ever.Round 2.
G2
Purchase 10 transports.
Noncombat: make sure you can load 16 units into sz 112 on G3 and six units into sz 100 on G3.
Placement: seven transports go to sz 112 and three go to sz 100.J2
Build airbase in Chahar and land all 20 planes there.I3
AnythingRound 3
G3
Sealion not likely possible, but you could do Nenetsia or take Leningrad.
From SZ 100 land all six units into CaucusJ3
Russia is most likely worried about its capital and concentrating on the sixteen units in Nenetsia. Therefore, fly five spaces and land all Japanese planes in CAUCUS!I3
Anything.Round 4 (this is where the Allied players eyes pop at what possibilities the Axis have)
G4
Build airbase in CaucusJ4
Fly five spaces and land all twenty planes in W. Germany. edit: From the Caucus, the Japanese stack of planes could also clear out a good chunk of the Mediterranean. SZ 95-100 can be cleared out and then land in N. Italy, S. Italy, Tobruk, or Libya.A few thoughts on this one. If Germany builds a carrier on G1, wouldn’t most Allied players be concerned about Sealion and commit the US 100% to the Atlantic? I would think they would so they are prepared to retake London if Sealion does occur. Does America and the UK build a fleet big enough to survive twenty Japanese planes from W. Germany on J5??? Does moving the 16 Geman ground unit to Nenetsia on G3 mean they die because it isn’t enough. NO. G4 you could transport them to Scotland. Russia round 4 is out of position because on the Nenetsia drop. G5 pick up another 16 ground units to assult London with a combined 32 ground units possible. If the Japanese clear the Atlantic around the UK and Scotland, Germany still has the transports to do a 1-2 drop (Scotland and then the UK the following round) to capture the UK.
I hear everyone complain about the US dumping all their IPCs into the Atlantic and Japan not being able to affect much change on the US. Well, try this variation on Nenetsia.
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I like the Baltic idea better than the Caucasus route. That’s 3 TRNs you’re building that the Russians will just shoot up with a plane on R3. Plus, if you build 3 transports in the Black Sea G2, the UK is already at war with you, and its perfectly legal to FLY through the Dardenalles to kill them with a plane.
However you get the Jap air force to Europe though, earlier is probably better! Its ridiculous that the Germans and Italians get as far as they do with the pitiful navies they start with!
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Ah, yes, the best thing about this strategy are the OPTIONS. You’re not pigeonholed into playing entirely defensive on the mainland, with 20 Japs threatening.
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gsh34, wouldn’t it be good for this strat to have Italy buy/move some tanks/mechs to Romania?
This shows more commitment in the southern region, distracting more from a northern offensive. And they can still be a modest can-opener threat in the South.
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@special:
gsh34, wouldn’t it be good for this strat to have Italy buy/move some tanks/mechs to Romania?
This shows more commitment in the southern region, distracting more from a northern offensive. And they can still be a modest can-opener threat in the South.
I have no problem with this. I don’t play FTF games as often as many here on the boards, so I need to try this out in a real game and see how it goes.
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