The key to (killing) Russia's heart is in Nenetsia, 2.0

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Interesting. Usually i worry about a 25ipc India funneling troops into Russia so my Japan goes after India pretty heavy. Turn 4 though is quick.

Thanks for figuring out the math btw.

I might feint at this to distract the Russians from supporting China and India. Thus helping my general goal of letting Japan conquer the world.

[gsh34]

This Nenetsia move has been rattling around in my head for a few days and I think I have found a killer modification to it thanks to being pounded by a US complex in Norway.  Why not have Germany build a major complex in Norway?  See what you think of the new modifications.

Round 1
Germany1
Purchase is the same as before: carrier and two transports for SZ 112.

Naval combat is the same.

For non-combat, make sure to land the bomber in Norway. Non-combat move two infantry from Poland to Norway when going to SZ112  Move everything away from the Russian boarder.  I want his units to feel safe in advancing away from Moscow.

Unit placement is the same.

You should end with 68 ipc for income

Japan1
Same as before.  Make sure to take Chahar.  Even bring the mech from Manchuria.  Position all planes so that they can land in Chahar on J2.

Italy1
I’m not sure anything Italy does has an effect with my changes.  However, they may need to do something after we begin to fully hash this out.

Round2
Germany2
Purchase 5 transports and one major complex.

I don’t think there will be any combat.  At the minimum, nothing major as the UK should have turtled up after my G1 build.

Make sure you have 8 inf and 8 tanks in W. Germany that can load onto the transports for G3.

Place transports in SZ112 and major complex in Norway.

Japan2
Build air base in Chahar and land all planes there.

Italy2
Again, I don’t think they have a critical role.

Round3
Germany3

Build 8 tanks for Norway.  Load transports in S112 from W. Germany and land 16 units in Nenetsia.  Position all planes in Norway.

Japan3
All 20 planes (alpha set up) can fly 5 spaces from Chahar to Nenetsia.

Italy3
Not critical

Round4
Germany4

Build…I don’t know.  At this point it is hard to plan out.  It could depend on where the UK and US will be able to land in Europe on this round.

Advance 16 units from Nenetsia to Vologda.  I think Russia could have a good counter attack here, but that is ok.  If they do, they will most likely have to commit a huge amount of their ground units.  Even if they do win, Japan will have 20 planes in Nenetsia that can clear out Vologda because Germany will non-combat move the 8 inf and 8 tanks in Norway to Nenetsia.  The 8 tanks just placed in Nenetsia could blitz through to Moscow.  Along with the tanks, all German planes will fly from Norway to Nenetsia on G4 so that they can contribute to the G5 attack on Moscow.

The G5 attack on Moscow would be at minimum 8 tanks plus 6-7 planes (assuming they took Vologda and Japan then cleared them out).  If Russia doesn’t attack the 16 Germany units in Vologda on R4, then on J4, Japan could use its 20 planes to attack Moscow and soften them up if needed.  On G5, Germany would then be attacking with 8 inf, 16 tanks, and 6-7 planes.

A plus for this strategy is that the whole time it will preserve the chance of doing Sealion AFTER Moscow has fallen.

[special forces]

Interesting idea. But i wonder what the effect of the (i admit, temporary) absence of all those japanese planes in Asia will be

[technobabble66]

The latter mod is much better - additional tanks for backup from a major IC in Norway is a gr8 idea. Using it for possible sealion could work. I’d imagine the UK navy might be a bit stronger by the time moscow falls, and the japanese could be in a slightly precarious position after losing their airforce “softening” up moscow.
The psychology/bluffing of players can b a v impt part of the game, but it’s more of a gamble than the dice sometimes. The ploy of falling back from the russian front may look highly suspicious or may look exactly like a pre-sealion move.
I’d b v v curious to see how the allies respond to this, particularly in a multiplayer game of 4-5 players. 1 ally may easily miss the possible moves, but i’ve found in my overall A&A experience that u just need 1 of a few opponents to get suspicious and the bluffs get v difficult ;-(

The major IC in Norway may solve multiple problems with this and other strategies - Norway is more defendable generally, and with a decent navy to protect them, a few transports can continuously dump backup/expeditions into northern russia. Having the ability to strike beyond the conventional Eastern front may distract the USSR considerably.

[Jercules]

Great strategy. An added consideration is the fact that Japan can strategically bomb Moscow on J3 with 4 bombers, landing them in Nenetsia.

I would be less worried about the Moscow stack and more worried about what’s in Leningrad. Unless a G4 Moscow strike is possible, the Leningrad stack can move to Archangel and force a showdown. You do have the advantage though, in that worst case scenario, comes to worse, Leningrad should be the consolation prize.

I think you can afford even less commitment from Japan. Getting that tank with a mech or two + the airfield in Chadar should be sufficient.

[Kobu]

It’s an interesting strat, but still doesn’t address the US devouring Italy, and then grinding Germany into the dust in a couple more turns.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@SalothSar:

I always build a destroyer on R1 and put it in Sz 125 R2 to protect the Russian NO. So unless you declare war on the Soviets G2 your not going anywhere >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Such a grand plan<> so easy to stop!

Russia only gets that NO if at war with germany or Italy

[SgtBlitz]

Oh noes Italy sends a fighter(s) from N. Italy to SZ 125 on its turn; OH NOES MY PLANZ ARE RUINED!!!11!!!1one

[special forces]

Looks like some members here are unbalanced  :-)

[calvinhobbesliker]

@SgtBlitz:

Oh noes Italy sends a fighter(s) from N. Italy to SZ 125 on its turn; OH NOES MY PLANZ ARE RUINED!!!11!!!1one

LOL.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@SalothSar:

To stop this masterplan all the Russians have to do is put naval units in Sz 125,126 & 112…. 3 seperate targets for that huge Italian airforce. An experienced USSR player would see the Japanese airbase is meant for them and move/buy forces accordingly. No Japanese player would ever build an airbase in Northern China to attack Chinese units or British in India.

Germans attack Z125 with sub plus massive airforce, killing it and cancelling NO.

[gsh34]

@SalothSar:

To stop this masterplan all the Russians have to do is put naval units in Sz 125,126 & 112…. 3 seperate targets for that huge Italian airforce. An experienced USSR player would see the Japanese airbase is meant for them and move/buy forces accordingly. No Japanese player would ever build an airbase in Northern China to attack Chinese units or British in India.

True, but in order to do this, Russia would need to buy, at a minimum three destroyers, since a lone enemy sub can be ignored.  24 ipc is not an inconsequential amount of money for Russia.  Since this has the potential of a G3 move for Germany, Russia would have to do the purchase on R1 so that they could move them into blocking position on R2.  What Russian player is going to do a three destroyer build on R1?  Also, Japan doesn’t even buy the air base until J2 which would be way too late for Russia to respond with a naval build.  R2 already happened!!!  Germany goes next which means G3 happens and there isn’t anything Russia can do in response to the Japanese air field/air force movement.

[special forces]

@SalothSar:

@gsh34:

@SalothSar:

To stop this masterplan all the Russians have to do is put naval units in Sz 125,126 & 112…. 3 seperate targets for that huge Italian airforce. An experienced USSR player would see the Japanese airbase is meant for them and move/buy forces accordingly. No Japanese player would ever build an airbase in Northern China to attack Chinese units or British in India.

True, but in order to do this, Russia would need to buy, at a minimum three destroyers, since a lone enemy sub can be ignored.  24 ipc is not an inconsequential amount of money for Russia.  Since this has the potential of a G3 move for Germany, Russia would have to do the purchase on R1 so that they could move them into blocking position on R2.  What Russian player is going to do a three destroyer build on R1?  Also, Japan doesn’t even buy the air base until J2 which would be way too late for Russia to respond with a naval build.  R2 already happened!!!  Germany goes next which means G3 happens and there isn’t anything Russia can do in response to the Japanese air field/air force movement.

I like the first word in your reply, “TRUE” so you agree you masterplan can be easily stopped!

IF (note this first word) you waste nearly a round of income to buy ships, even before any sign of this “masterplan”. Sounds better to me to buy 8 inf instead and move another 8 to in Nenetsia ASAP. At least those will later be useful.
I might consider 1 DD turn 1 though.

Edit: Might make more sense to put some INF and ART in Archangel, and some mech/tanks within a 2 zone reach of nenetsia. That way, when Germany gets there, you have the chance to kick them out. If you retake it, Japan’s planes won’t be landing anywhere.

If they manage to get Nene ànd land planes, it’ll be Russia’s job (playing inbetween Germany and Japan) to try to take advantage of the moment both axis troops split up.

[gsh34]

@SalothSar:

@gsh34:

@SalothSar:

To stop this masterplan all the Russians have to do is put naval units in Sz 125,126 & 112…. 3 seperate targets for that huge Italian airforce. An experienced USSR player would see the Japanese airbase is meant for them and move/buy forces accordingly. No Japanese player would ever build an airbase in Northern China to attack Chinese units or British in India.

True, but in order to do this, Russia would need to buy, at a minimum three destroyers, since a lone enemy sub can be ignored.  24 ipc is not an inconsequential amount of money for Russia.  Since this has the potential of a G3 move for Germany, Russia would have to do the purchase on R1 so that they could move them into blocking position on R2.  What Russian player is going to do a three destroyer build on R1?  Also, Japan doesn’t even buy the air base until J2 which would be way too late for Russia to respond with a naval build.  R2 already happened!!!  Germany goes next which means G3 happens and there isn’t anything Russia can do in response to the Japanese air field/air force movement.

I like the first word in your reply, “TRUE” so you agree you masterplan can be easily stopped!

No, it is not easily stopped.  To do the naval blocks that you suggest with the Russian naval units, they would have to purchase at minimum three destroyers on R1.  What Russian player would spend 24 ipc on R1 for three destroyers? If they wait until R2 to respond, it is too late and they can’t stop it!!!  Now, they can move there ground units around to have a counter attack into Nenetsia as some have suggested, but if those ground units are in Archangel or another adjacent territory to Nenetsia, then they aren’t at the western front waiting for Germany!

[SgtBlitz]

@SalothSar:

@gsh34:

@SalothSar:

@gsh34:

@SalothSar:

To stop this masterplan all the Russians have to do is put naval units in Sz 125,126 & 112…. 3 seperate targets for that huge Italian airforce. An experienced USSR player would see the Japanese airbase is meant for them and move/buy forces accordingly. No Japanese player would ever build an airbase in Northern China to attack Chinese units or British in India.

True, but in order to do this, Russia would need to buy, at a minimum three destroyers, since a lone enemy sub can be ignored.  24 ipc is not an inconsequential amount of money for Russia.  Since this has the potential of a G3 move for Germany, Russia would have to do the purchase on R1 so that they could move them into blocking position on R2.  What Russian player is going to do a three destroyer build on R1?  Also, Japan doesn’t even buy the air base until J2 which would be way too late for Russia to respond with a naval build.  R2 already happened!!!  Germany goes next which means G3 happens and there isn’t anything Russia can do in response to the Japanese air field/air force movement.

I like the first word in your reply, “TRUE” so you agree you masterplan can be easily stopped!

No, it is not easily stopped.  To do the naval blocks that you suggest with the Russian naval units, they would have to purchase at minimum three destroyers on R1.  What Russian player would spend 24 ipc on R1 for three destroyers? If they wait until R2 to respond, it is too late and they can’t stop it!!!  Now, they can move there ground units around to have a counter attack into Nenetsia as some have suggested, but if those ground units are in Archangel or another adjacent territory to Nenetsia, then they aren’t at the western front waiting for Germany!

Easily stopped

No, NOT easily stopped.  Even IF the 3 DDs somehow succeeded in blocking off Nenetsia and stopping the Italian FIGs from blasting a way through, Germany could just be like:  “Aw, screw this noise, I’m going to Britain after all!” and attempt a proper Sealion anyway.  You’ve just spent 24 IPCs that could of been used on the Eastern Front doing much more useful things.

[special forces]

Salothstar, unless you have great spies, you can’t know what your opponents are gonna do. Not on time.

So you’re gonna buy 3 DD’s every game when Germany buys fleet?

[gsh34]

@SgtBlitz:

No, NOT easily stopped.  Even IF the 3 DDs somehow succeeded in blocking off Nenetsia and stopping the Italian FIGs from blasting a way through, Germany could just be like:  “Aw, screw this noise, I’m going to Britain after all!” and attempt a proper Sealion anyway.  You’ve just spent 24 IPCs that could of been used on the Eastern Front doing much more useful things.

That was my entire point about suggesting this strategy.  Sealion is ALWAYS an option.  If Russia is soooooooooooooo concerned about Germany pulling this off because it bought a carrier and two transports on G1, go ahead and buy the destroyers.  Germany can still do a G3/G4 Sealion and then have fewer Russian ground units to deal with afterwards.  This was never designed to be a strategy that you are monolithically locked into doing.  It is something I wanted other players to be aware of in case Russia gets too big in its britches and pulls too many units away from Moscow or bought too many high priced units and thus have a unit deficiency.

[keplar]

i’ve been following this post since it started and i thought of offering this:

if Germany waits to attack til G4 then japan won’t need an airbase to help out. by J3, Japan can land their planes in Suiyuyan and still clear vologda for germany and possibly use bombers to help clear out Russia.

[deadbunny]

Gimmick win, if at all, with a proper Russian palyer IPM will win.

[special forces]

IPM?