Just brain storming, back in Revised AA I posted a plan that worked once per opponent that saw the Axis storm both sides of Canada on turn 3, with Jap planes securing German landings. Forcing America to chose which coast to spends its 1 turn of defensive Production…hence the Hollywood name as Washington was usually the choice place to save. Then Japan took and held Hollywood(the west coast doesn’t sound as cool) while the German’s blocked central U.S. it was as if they created central U.S. in Revised to allow for this. :)
In AARevised you had to bluff a UK first approach, force them to buy land, and the U.S. to build navy as a take back, then you “blitzed” past UK to N. America.
In AAG40, it makes sense to just capture UK on round 3 by landing in sz109, so that way you are in range of Quebec on G4. Pair this with a J3 or J2 assault on Alaska, and synchronize your Jap air force (OOB 28 units) to land in Quebec after clearing Washington (need an airbase in Alaska-fly Brit. Columbia to Alberta to C. US??. to E. US to Quebec. or just fly to Quebec instead of building the air base and clear from there.) Maybe toss a few subs on the side of the board that the U.S. did not build a fleet in. It may be that the Germans have to use their air force to clear for Japan, still trying to work out the details.
Usually the US has spent a lot on ships and less on men, or if they do the men are in Hawaii. by turn 3.
Could a Kill America first strategy be devised that works? 82 IPCs is a lot…they could build out of all three factories. I have to think that the Jap air force could open a hole somewhere in their defense. Maybe I’m just dreaming, as what is a world war, without the U.S. as a target :)
Any suggestions? Maybe we can build a strategy by forum. (at the very least, Norway would not be as much of a concern, just a Russian held Berlin problem unless Italy can hold it.)
Sounds like an interesting plan. I just think that if Japan ignores UK and Anzac they have no income seeing as all the money in Pacific is around DEI/Southeast Asia. Also, Germany is going to get raped by Russia if it doesn’t pay attention. Russia will be a beast invading Eastern Poland with a huge stack. And if you spend all of Germany’s money on ships for this invasion, Russia will take Germany R5. It only has a minor IC. And even if you reconquer Germany form West Germany Russia will take it again and pillage your economy twice.
I loved being able to pull off Operation Hollywood on each opponent once in Revised and was wondering if it could be done in Global also. My boards aren’t here yet, so I can’t really comment on any specifics of a possible Operation Hollywood.
I loved being able to pull off Operation Hollywood on each opponent once in Revised…
A strategy which only works once against each opponent will never work against a strong opponent.
It was a surprise move, hence the only working once part. Its true, that good players could figure out your plan and prevent a critical move. However, it was extremely rewarding when they didn’t. Nobody expects a surprise strike on the U.S. in that version of the game.
Now the question is, do the axis have a way to chose America first, instead of Russia? Japan and Germany will be close to America’s production level. And they both have more starting units combined then the U.S. A short window exists were Russia is unable to engage the German’s, is that enough time? Who would win in a game where the axis trade Berlin for Washington and London. Could the Japanese defeat a Russia that has Berlin and Rome?
Not going to happen in this game, sadly.
America has such a ungodly huge income even without its war dec bonus that its completely unfeasible for either the Japs or Germans to contemplate. The Atlantic is also bigger now (at least 2 turns to cross), and its much more difficult for Italy to get into Gibraltar with the UK having a carrier group in the ocean there (not to mention that the UK goes first and usually does a Taranto raid with that carrier group, crippling Italy’s fleet UK1…)
Have not gone over the builds or fleet make-ups yet, here is my first suggestion. Looking for input.
Plan Alpha(not to be confused with Larry’s setup): (Requires the U.S. to have spent first two turns building in Pacific)
G3: Fake UK first, but move fleet to capture Gibraltar
J3: Land in British Columbia with a Mech and infantry force. Build transports or bombers.
I3: build transports for I5 backup invasion of E.US. if J5 clears it.
G4: land in central U.S. fight sea battle if needed.
J4: Capture Alberta with 1 infantry.
move mech and carrier part of air force into central U.S. through Alberta non combat.
(requires Alberta to touch C.US? There is a border line clearly drawn in the top part of C. US like turkey/greece. It is logical that C. US touches C. Canada. I believe Keven stated once that it does not touch. Not sure at this point.)
if bombers J3, land in Central U.S. for more casualties.
Hit W. US with the infantry from BC and Air force to reduce stack, land in C.US
if transports land in BC with rest of airforce from Japan. Depends on what can hit it.
I4: move transports to sz91 if German carrier there as UK can build carrier to hit it.
land Italian air force in C. US. if need the defense.
G5: attack E. US to weaken for J5. Or grab W. US. depends on E.US and W.US stack.
land German air force in C.US if you need defense.
J5: send Jap air force and Mechs into E. US to capture Washington.
I6: attack E. US if Japan has cleared it enough.
Not sure on the logistics at this point, also need to see US response and builds. May be pointless.
Good Result: Italy takes E.US I5
Best Result: Japan takes E. US J5.
Worst Result: you lose the game, but its a shorter version of global this way :)
Problems, may lose Germany. If you fail to capture Washington Game over….worse then the sea lion gambit?
Need fine tuning and possible US defense options to decide if this work in progress is fruitless.
The biggest issue I see with this plan besides the 2 turns it takes to reach the USA which means that they get at least 1 turn to build up defenses on both coasts if they hadn’t already is that you have to declare on the USA to do it(Japan does if its early game) so they get their big war income plus whatever they can take in the time. Anyway back to that problem. Russia would declare on Japan and pour troops into China and the coast of Japan, they could work their way across the land and(at least in the other versions) given enough time Russia could build a fleet capable of taking Japan. The other thing is that Germany would be conquered by Russia easily.
Btw the USA loses its war bonus if any of the USA is taken. So if they could take just one area and hold it…its possible. But the cost to take it would be horrible and they would get slammed with the remaining USA forces the next turn.
All in all I don’t think its possible. Do let me know if it gets pulled off vs a skilled foe though.
ok, had 12 hours at work to work out a production and movement plan in my head.
Revised goal, not to take E. US, but rather to take and hold Central US first. The plan places 36 axis units on Central US turn 4. Has two blockading fleets off of each coast, and with a sub at Alaska and Mexico, I believe I can have the US collect 0-3 IPCs US4 if they fail to capture Central US. (They will have 82 to spend US4 but will collect 0-3 for US5)
German Blockade fleet = 1 BB,CA,CV,DD,7 SS, 6TRN.
Japanese Blockade fleet = 2 BB,2CA,6CV,3DD,2 SS (at Alaska+Mexico),4 TRN
Italian Blockade fleet = 1 BB,2CA,1DD,2 Sub,2TRN (requires sea lion build + UK permit survival).
Premise: Do not engage or threaten U.S. until turn 3. Then swing into motion and catch them by surprise. Only works if the US spends 1st turn builds in Pacific. May require 2nd turn builds in Pacific.
Edit: Remember when G2 plops down transports, it still appears that you are going UK first, Japan’s carriers may seem like a counter to a US build up in the Pacific and a staged attack on Hawaii. This could surprise anyone who has not read this plan or thinks US first is legitimate.
Master Production List for Plan Alpha (Hollywood AAG40)
G1: 30=CV,2TRN; collect 39+17+10=66
J1: 26=CV,TRN save 3; collect 31+3=34
I1: 10=sub,infantry save 1; collect 15 (S.France,Tunisia,Anglo)+1=16
G2: 66=DD,5TRN,3Subs,1 INF save 2; collect 41+10+2=53
J2: 34=2CV save 2; collect 31+2=33
I2: 16=1 Sub,3 Inf save 1; collect 16(S.France, Tunisia, Morocco,Alegeria)+1=17
G3: 53=15 infantry, 2 artillery; collect 51
J3: 33=2 Bomber, 3 Infantry; collect 26
I3: 17=3 Infantry, 2 Artillery; collect 15
G4: 51=13 infantry, 3 artillery; collect 51+10(c.us)=61 (USSR DOwar after G4 collects IPCs)
J4: 26=6 infantry, 2 artillery; collect 24+10(w.us)=34 (if W.US falls)
I4: 15=5 infantry
Objectives:
G1: Finnland, UK fleet (lose air to save subs), Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, France
J1: Chahar, Anhwe, Hunan,French indo china; move fleet to sz6, island men drop in Korea.
I1: S.France, Tunisia, Anglo,Kenya, sz 93.
G2: Normandy, begin moving units to position (transports and Berlin defense)
J2: Suiyuyan, Hopei, Amur
I2: Morocco, Algeria, Belgian Congro, F. W. Africa; beginning moving land to Berlin.
G3: Move fleet to Gibraltar (capture)
J3: Move fleet and loaded transports to Hawaii non combat use 12 fighters on carriers.
I3: Move fleet to Gibraltar, men to Berlin
US3: Decides where to spend 52 IPCs (W. US , C. US or E. US)
Threat assessments: W. US 4 transports, 18 air units from Japan
Pacific fleet, 30 air units maybe 15 ships from Japan
C. US 6 transports from Germany; 2 from Italy-maybe
E. US 6 transports from Germany; 2 from Italy-maybe(get 5 UK planes)
Atlantic fleet, 12 German ships, 2 air units; 4 Italian ships
I anticipate America pulls assets from Hawaii to W. US, builds in W. US and E. US
America could build navy in Atlantic if it can hold up vs. German and Italian fleets.
G4: Take C. US, engage Atlantic fleet if none, 1 sub + DD to sz 89
J4: Engage pacific fleet if off W. US, land in W.US if open, land 12 fighters 6 Bombers in C. US; move fleet noncombat to W. US keep men on transports if you must for J5. Land Japan air units on carriers. Move subs to Alaska and Mexico
I4: Land 2 fighters (Gibraltar) and 4 land units on C. US, Move fleet and subs to sz101
Survive American assault and you deny them 30 NO, -14 IPCs W. Coast, -26 IPCs E. Coast from convoy raiding. Result = collect zero IPCs for US 4.
If US takes central, collect 30 IPCs from NO and zero from territories.
G5: Build 10 [Edit] 3 units in C. US rest in Europe, drive Russia back with your 50+units vs their 35ish.
J5: Take W. US [[b]Hollywood-California] with 30 air and 8 land units, plus 4 Naval Bombardments. Land air in C.US.
I5: Blitz tank from C. US to SE mexico and central america. Other tank goes Alberta to B. Columbia. I6 take Alaska. Edit: and Mexico I6.
Battle for Central US turn US4:
Axis Forces: 36 pieces [actual]
German: 6 infantry, 6 armor HitsPerRound: 5
Italian: 2 infantry, 2 armor, 2 fighters HitsPerRound: 3
Japanese: 12 fighters, 6 Bombers HitsPerRound: 9
Allied Forces: 8 UK?, 44 pieces [estimated]
UK: 3 mech, 4 fighters, 1 Tactical HitsPerRound: 3
US: 26 infantry, 2 armor, 2 Mech, 3 artillery, 4 Bombers, 4 fighters, 3 Tactical
HitsPerRound: 13
(assumes most of US1,US2 production went to navy for Pacific added 4 infantry)
(assumes US3 of 16 infantry 1 artillery)
(assumes US3 moved land and air from Hawaii to W. US otherwise air could not hit C.US)
Battle for Berlin: Likely none
R4: Russia move to Slovakia with 32-35 units
G5: 55+units to defend Berlin (8-10 are Italian) Should hold. USSR +18 for NOs
Seems like a game, want to try? [Note: I did not set up this board, have constructed plan from memory, let me know if I missed something obvious that defeats this, thank you]
Major Edit: having slept on it; it now occurs to me that the U.S. would collect 3 IPCs minimum for Philippines and Hawaii. Unless Japan produces subs for that region or pulled units from Hawaii staged force.
ok, had 12 hours at work to work out a production and movement plan in my head.
Revised goal, not to take E. US, but rather to take and hold Central US first.
awesome plan. i was a big fan of your original operation hollywood.
although the original did require the allied player to think you were going for sealion and not have usa build lots of ground units it was still fun and did work against some good players online.
i read all your moves but did not study to see if there is counters. even if it is not fool proof i love the idea of trying to make another legitimate strategy for this game.
My biggest concern is not producing enough transports with G2. I choose subs for fleet strength and blockading goals. It is possible to produce 2 more German transports, bringing the Berlin defense force to 50 units R5. Italy could also produce a transport round 1, at the cost of a sub and a DD that would have to block a UK DD off Egypt.
These changes (Plan Bravo) would add 6 more land units in C. US for a piece count of 42 units. But may prevent the collect 0 3. I would have to see how close C. US is I did not use any battle calculators yet, maybe someone can run it on the suggested figures I posted.
I have not gone through the possible US move to sz6 on US3. This may require that some air units remain in Japan on J4.
Another counter that changes the scope and likely results in a loss is a combined effort in C. US defending on G4 invasion. Leaving W. US for Japan then retaking W. US and likely seeing Germany take and hold with the entire Jap air force…not idea, but blockade should still deny most US IPCs in the Atlantic, however a second collection would mean 33? IPCs for US5.
The reward even if I lose, would be seeing my opponent perplexed and scratching his head on how to respond the first time they are faced with this. It would be unlikely, but if they thought the German’s were heading to Egypt [Edit] (insert table chatter here, by promising your ally that you will help him get Egypt) and they focused on defending against an obvious Japan attack, you might find Washington in Berlin’s hands on G4.
J1: Chahar, Anhwe, Hunan,French indo china; move fleet to sz6, island men drop in Korea.
Is this including the fleet at Truk? or just the 3 ships up by Japan in sz19?
G5: Build 10 units in C. US rest in Europe, drive Russia back with your 50+units vs their 35ish.
Major Factory in C. US becomes minor factory upon conquest.
That is some time spent at work planning this!
If something goes wrong after you move the German fleet to western Gibraltar it can always move into the Med using the land units to take Africa if Italy has not.
To get Americas attention in the Pacific Japan can do something obnoxious always……
My favorite strategy against the Americans is blocking them. They can use it against the landing Germans. Having the Italian Navy and air force near by helps open it up.
Since the strategy has such as excellent fall back into the Med I might not be able to resist trying.
i read all your moves but did not study to see if there is counters. even if it is not fool proof i love the idea of trying to make another legitimate strategy for this game.
…Premise: Do not engage or threaten U.S. until turn 3. Then swing into motion and catch them by surprise. Only works if the US spends 1st turn builds in Pacific. May require 2nd turn builds in Pacific…
There’s your counter - a US1 Atlantic build.
I’d really like to try this (and analyse it) because it sounds fun, but I’m afraid my opponents tend to build in the Atlantic (at least in part); especially against a perceived Sea Lion threat. I wonder If Japan can goad USA somehow? Maybe J1 is sound enough to try this anyway and only follow through the odd time you face a devoted Pacific build.
Have your tried your revised strategy in AA42? I think I’d like to. Also, is there an AA50 version?
PS: you should push for the U-Boat Peril optional rule!
What if Japan attacked Hawaii turn one. That would probably encourage a pacific build.
A strategy which only works once against each opponent will never work against a strong opponent.
On second thought, an opponent with general A&A skill will still be a little green at such a new (and gigantic) version…
J1: Chahar, Anhwe, Hunan,French indo china; move fleet to sz6, island men drop in Korea.
Is this including the fleet at Truk? or just the 3 ships up by Japan in sz19?
G5: Build 10 units in C. US rest in Europe, drive Russia back with your 50+units vs their 35ish.
Major Factory in C. US becomes minor factory upon conquest.
Yes, all navy North. I kept Japan attacks to a minimum. I didn’t want people to think I had more money with them then they are likely to get. Use the transports to grab men from Caroline, Iwo, and Okinawa. I hope to leave Caroline open on J3 to encourage a US move there instead of back to W. US….not too likely, but why not try.
Got me there, that shows my lack of experience with Global…minor factory works well for me too, if the axis knock out C.US and W.US I can live with that.
Although, US4 will produce a large take back force with the 82 they collect US3. (they should be able to make like 8 infantry, 4 artillery, and 7 armor I believe.)May prove hard to hold without 7 more infantry. The extra Japanese air might do it…but there are many things that can go wrong. You might have to attack one stack with Japan…would have to playtest and see what actually happens with US player.
I don’t mean to imply that this is the best America first approach. I just wanted to toss out an idea that looks reasonable to get the pot boiling on ideas to make this work. Also, I have yet to play test this, just posted a game plan from my mental picture of the board and probable moves.
i read all your moves but did not study to see if there is counters. even if it is not fool proof i love the idea of trying to make another legitimate strategy for this game.
…Premise: Do not engage or threaten U.S. until turn 3. Then swing into motion and catch them by surprise. Only works if the US spends 1st turn builds in Pacific. May require 2nd turn builds in Pacific…
There’s your counter - a US1 Atlantic build.
I’d really like to try this (and analyse it) because it sounds fun, but I’m afraid my opponents tend to build in the Atlantic (at least in part); especially against a perceived Sea Lion threat. I wonder If Japan can goad USA somehow? Maybe J1 is sound enough to try this anyway and only follow through the odd time you face a devoted Pacific build.
Have your tried your revised strategy in AA42? I think I’d like to. Also, is there an AA50 version?
PS: you should push for the U-Boat Peril optional rule!
Yep, it is easily countered and prevented, could only work if a US player chooses Japan first and builds there first. I mentioned that from the beginning, because a heavy land unit build or Atlantic fleet may prove to be too much for the axis to overcome. Give me time to work on that approach when I play more games of global.
I haven’t played a game of 42, my meetup.com group always preferred AA50. The board is functionally similar to AArevised I believe, but I have not studied it. I think my original plan is out there…sorry for the name, Hollywood sounded more exciting then KUSAF :) I never tried it with A50. I actually credit my friend (Warpiglet on Boardgamegeek.com, been playing AA together since high school 1990s) for asking me about America first in Global, he is fixated on using all those Jap planes. So I thought I would bring back the Revised plan and see if it or something like it fit.
I’d push for the U-boat peril rule, but I wouldn’t want to tip my hand ;) great idea.
What if Japan attacked Hawaii turn one. That would probably encourage a pacific build.
And give the U.S. 30 more IPCs and the ability to attack Germany or send units to UK.
If I was doing a J1 attack, I think I would go India first, but I’ll look at it.
Maybe a J1 attack and you leave Japan open, inviting a Pacific fleet. The 30 more IPCs US has, gives them more options US3 when Germany gets into position…thats enough to build 10 infantry on C.US.
I think the focus should be using the “free” time you have to prepare, while America’s hands are tied.
