Political rules

[purplebaron]

Now I really want to find out about the political rules particularly in Global.  For instance, it would seem that Germany and Italy start the game at war with UK.  That matches history, and makes for a good start of UK fighting alone.  But it also means that the UK might be completely overwhelmed.  Elsewhere on these boards, we’ve seen compelling breakdowns of early attacks that have a pretty successful Sea Lion on G2 or G3 and the Italians capturing Egypt on I2.  Could the Axis potentially knock UK out of the war before US and USSR even really start the game?  Also, what about Japan?  If the Pacific political rules are carried over, does UK start the game at war with Germany/Italy but not Japan?  If Japan attacks the UK, does that mean Russia can attack Germany?  Is that the big disincentive for a J1 attack?  If UK can swing some of it’s Indian forces towards Africa for a turn or two while being safe from the Japanese, that could make things interesting in a whole different way.

On the other hand, what if Germany/Italy aren’t at ware with UK at the start (I know it’s a-historical), then attacking then on turn 1 would presumably bring US and USSR into the war, the biggest disincentive to that being that Russia could start gobbling up Eastern Europe before Germany is ready to defend them.  That’s the only thing I can think of that will keep what looks like a pretty powerful sea lion strategy from working or at least, make it not worthwhile.  On the other hand, if Germany can’t trim down UK’s fleet while it’s piecemeal on G1, then UK will start with a massive fleet.

As much as this game looks amazing, I’m starting to worry.  Sea Lion needs to be a valid strategy if UK isn’t careful, but it needs to be defeatable with a prepared UK player, otherwise we’re going to have a lot of games ending on turn 2.  Similarly, though to a lesser degree, the level of Italian forces arrayed to take Egypt on turn 2 don’t seem compatible with the “back and forth” that we’ve been promised in Africa.

I hope that this game is free of degenerate first turn strategies.

Please preview the political rules next.

[miamibeach]

Agreed concerning the poltical rules, however I do not think its necessary to do anything a-historical.  If there is an imbalance anywhere it can be addressed with adjustments to the At Start forces for the Global game.  ie…give Italy one less TRS, UK a little more in Egypt, maybe UK gets 1FTR, 1INF, 1AB, and 1 SUB in Malta, 1 INF in Gibraltar.  A few more INF for UK in Britain, etc…

I assume this (Global) game has been playtested???

[maverick_76]

I’m pretty sure that the Soviets can actually attack whenever they want, meaning that a Germany with a weak eastern front will have Russia that much closer to Berlin. Something tells me that Sealion could work, but at the cost of too much in the East meaning that Germany better take the UK and hope to god that Japan is diverting some US income away from the European side of things.

I’m betting the political rules are set where Russia and Germany, just like Russia and Japan, are not at war but can attack whenever they want. The only power that can not attack at the start will be the US. That is probably going to be the only way to counter a Sealion strategy.

[miamibeach]

To take the political rules in another direction for a moment…

I think there should be a “Free France” rule…that after Paris falls, France can choose one of its territories as a new capitol, and with the ability to collect IPC’s from all Free Franch/captured(by Free France) Axis territories, eventually saving enough to build a minor IC and more units.  If that new capitol territory is captured by the Axis, Free France is done other than the Free France units still on the map.

[UN Spacy]

@maverick_76:

I’m pretty sure that the Soviets can actually attack whenever they want, meaning that a Germany with a weak eastern front will have Russia that much closer to Berlin. Something tells me that Sealion could work, but at the cost of too much in the East meaning that Germany better take the UK and hope to god that Japan is diverting some US income away from the European side of things.

I’m betting the political rules are set where Russia and Germany, just like Russia and Japan, are not at war but can attack whenever they want. The only power that can not attack at the start will be the US. That is probably going to be the only way to counter a Sealion strategy.

The USSR cannot attack a European Axis power for the first three rounds.

[SgtBlitz]

I’m thinking that if UK’s fall triggers global war dec, regardless if its G2 or G3, that should be enough as a disincentive for Germany to attempt Sealion.  Defending England from 80+ IPCs America while holding back the Reds with two full turns of built up units in Poland would be overwhelming for a German player, even with 4 major ICs chugging along.

AAE40 games the UK player might have to resign himself to always falling G2 or G3 to a determined (and lucky!) German player, but being rescued by the US on Round 3 or 4.  I mean, look at how long the French player has to sit out the game…

There probably will be an Allied bid simply because the RAF is so exposed at game start.

[maverick_76]

@UN:

The USSR cannot attack a European Axis power for the first three rounds.

Is that a 100% fact?

[LHoffman]

@SgtBlitz:

I’m thinking that if UK’s fall triggers global war dec, regardless if its G2 or G3, that should be enough as a disincentive for Germany to attempt Sealion.  Defending England from 80+ IPCs America while holding back the Reds with two full turns of built up units in Poland would be overwhelming for a German player, even with 4 major ICs chugging along.

AAE40 games the UK player might have to resign himself to always falling G2 or G3 to a determined (and lucky!) German player, but being rescued by the US on Round 3 or 4.  I mean, look at how long the French player has to sit out the game…

There probably will be an Allied bid simply because the RAF is so exposed at game start.

Dude, this nuts! How can we expect the UK to fall on turn 1 or 2? It is practically inconcievable to me… as you can by now tell. To me it would screw the game because Germany can build 10 units there on turn 3, plus reinforce it with whatever he has on the board. He will also have a sizable navy… Good luck to the US in taking back England!

As for Russia not being able to attack European Axis for 3 turns… I have heard this statement before, so I can only assume it is true. However I think that the USSR having to wait that long is garbage. They should only have to wait 2 turns… or be able to attack Germany whenever they want. It seems more historical that way (waiting only 2 turns), because they should have to wait less time than the US to enter the war (providing neither was attacked).

[Imperious Leader]

As for Russia not being able to attack European Axis for 3 turns… I have heard this statement before, so I can only assume it is true. However I think that the USSR having to wait that long is garbage.

It seems ( w/o knowing all the facts) that this German gambit against UK is just like the idea of Japan attacking US/ UK on J1.

Germany uses the Soviet peace to take out UK, then swing against Russia with no UK in a position to stop them. Here we go again?

[Danger Mouse]

Perhaps the Russians could choose to roll a dice after turn 1 and if they get a certain number they can declare war.

Say start of their turn 2: 5 or 6
turn 3: 3-6
Turn 4 automatic

This would force the German player to be prepared for a turn 2 or three assualt by Russian forces that would probably cost them Eastern Europe before they could turn around.  It would also make each game potentially different which makes some people upset but hey the entire game is decided by dice, so it might make a good house rule.

[fanofbond]

@Imperious:

As for Russia not being able to attack European Axis for 3 turns… I have heard this statement before, so I can only assume it is true. However I think that the USSR having to wait that long is garbage.

yea i was thinking that too
It seems ( w/o knowing all the facts) that this German gambit against UK is just like the idea of Japan attacking US/ UK on J1.

Germany uses the Soviet peace to take out UK, then swing against Russia with no UK in a position to stop them. Here we go again?

yea that is what i was thinking

[miamibeach]

What time frame is one full turn(Germany to France) supposed to cover?  Half year?  Quarter?  One month?

[Dylan the Canadian]

@miamibeach:

What time frame is one full turn(Germany to France) supposed to cover?  Half year?  Quarter?  One month?

I always made one turn equal 1 season.

So like example Spring 1942, turn 6 would be Summer 1943.

[LHoffman]

@miamibeach:

What time frame is one full turn(Germany to France) supposed to cover?  Half year?  Quarter?  One month?

I was told it represents 6 months… though that seems only slightly long when you assess how far (or not far) units are moving and attacking. Maybe in a global sense it is a bit more believable.

[UN Spacy]

@maverick_76:

@UN:

The USSR cannot attack a European Axis power for the first three rounds.

Is that a 100% fact?

I would seriously give you the source in an instant, but I cannot find it. I know, just know, I heard it from somewhere–-either from Krieg or from Larry on his website.

[miamibeach]

I think I saw somewhere that one full turn is 6 months.  If thats true, some of our games have gone into the 1960’s.

Anyway, this game has to have some sort of semblance to history.  USSR should not be allowed to attack Germany prior to 1942.  Not only did the two countries have a deal that included trade, but Stalin thought he and Hitler would be allied for some time.  It came as a total shock to Stalin when he was told about the German invasion and he refused to believe it for some time.

If you want to make the USSR entry variable, fine, but the first three turns at a minimum Germany should be free of any USSR attack…which defeats the concept of putting more pressure on Germany.

The simple most solution is to change the at start forces even just a little.  Please keep this game at least semi-historical.

[dellsharpie]

What is really crap is how little the UK starts with in their capitol.  You figure if they are already AT WAR with germany, they would keep themselves actually PROTECTED!
Honestly I would rather have one less destroyer for 3 more infantry in the UK.

[johnnymarr]

Per LH

However, it is important to point out that Russia cannot attack a Euro Axis until its turn 4. This is not to say that it can’t be at war with the Euro Axis before that moment. That depends on whether or not they are attacked by them.

[Imperious Leader]

However, it is important to point out that Russia cannot attack a Euro Axis until its turn 4.

Germany has at least 2 turns if unlimited fun in Europe?  I see problems looming from this. And if Russia collect’s less than full income it might be another situation where axis attack them sooner like Japan does against the allies.

Germany takes out UK on G1 and France on G2 and attacks Russia on turn 3?

[UN Spacy]

Ah, four turns until it can’t attack. That’s even better!