Table Tactics New Product Release

[DrLarsen]

OK TT, the moment of truth!  I’m carefully examining your full 6-power line-up of rifles and tanks, and seeing where they might fit into some sort of A&A “upgrade” line-up…

My preliminary thoughts, in no particular order are:

1. I think I’m struggling to understand your overall concept, here.

a. You’ve got uniform sets of rifle-stand infantry in 5 categories:
          i. rifle—14
          ii. SMG—6
          iii. AR—3
          iv. MG—6
          v. ATRL—3
[OK, so far so good, assuming I’m willing to give rifle-stand infantry a chance, I think I can come up with 5 types of infantry units…]

b. But with the tanks… is it supposed to be two size levels or three?
    c. Are you thinking a distinction between standard tank and TD?  But not all powers have a TD, and the ones that do have them in differing sizes…?

2. I can see what you’re trying to do with the smallest tanks being the same size as WotC standard tanks, and those you’ve done which are exactly the same tanks as the WotC ones  (Italy & Japan) are close enough in size to the WotC ones to work.  You could even go so far as to say that the WotC standard T-34’s are similar enough to T-70’s and WotC standard Shermans are similar enough to Stuarts to ignore this incongruity, but then it begins to break down because your own sizes are inconsistent and even seem almost random at times:
       a. Germany: You have no German light tanks (were you intending your Panzer IV’s to be light tanks?  If so, you made them too big.  They’re exactly the same size as your Panthers, which, even more oddly, are smaller than your Comets or T-34’s… I don’t get it…?!?)
       b. USSR: Your T-34’s are huge!!!  This is even more incongruous as they’re clearly T-34/76’s, not T-34/85’s, so you can’t be thinking of them as direct counter-parts of your Tigers…!?!  Even within any possible internally consistent standard I can think of regarding your own units, your T-34’s and SU-85’s should be smaller, about the same size as your Panthers, Panzer IV’s, Shermans and Chi-Ha’s
       c. Your British units are also oddly big, with the Cromwell the same size as your Tigers and your crusaders bigger than your light tanks, yet smaller than your medium (or is it heavy?) tanks.  And the Sherman, which is really very much in the same class as the Cromwell (and T-34, and Panzer IV, and arguably Panther) is strangely half-way in-between your already-strangely-in-between Crusader and your oddly-too-big Cromwell…  Even if I just lump all the tanks into just two size classes, the Crusader doesn’t clearly fit into either the light or medium/ heavy categories… (…and if I do that, then there’s definitely no German light…)
       d. USA:
             i. Tanks: Your US Sherman and US Pershing, very strangely, are almost the same size, making it harder to determine if you meant for the Pershing to be an upgrade or not.
             ii. TD’s: Your American M-18 Hellcat TD is oversize: it should be closer to a Sherman than to a Tiger.  Perhaps you were thinking of putting all TD’s into a large “heavy-hitting slugger” category, which makes sense given that your SU-85’s are also oversize (but maybe that’s just because they’re the same size as your T-34’s, which is perfectly accurate, as they were based on the same chassis), but then your Italian TD is a tiny light tank, so again I’m not sure what the concept here is supposed to be.  Since all the other American TD’s and SP’s (M10, M36, M7) were built on a Sherman chassis and the M18 was actually lighter and faster than any of the above, it seems a little odd to me that you would go ahead and make it not only way bigger than its Italian competitor, but also way bigger than the biggest US tank you did, the Pershing…  This might have made more sense if you’d done the M36 with its heavy-hitting 90mm cannon, but since the M36 was based on the Sherman chassis, this might have been even more inconguous if you’d wanted to make it so much obviously bigger than your Sherman.

[DrLarsen]

Oh, one more thing:

3. While the comparability of the different types and the uniformity of the numbers of each  involved among the infantry is clear, the #'s of different types of tanks in each set shows no pattern I can discern, which might have also clued me into what specific types/ classes of tanks you were intending to shoot for.

4. Russian color: It’s actually slightly redder than even the reddest Russians I have.  It’s close enough to THOSE Russians to work, but definitely MUCH redder than the current standard.  Since I’ve been having a VERY hard time finding more such red Russians to add to my collection, I can only surmise that others would have a similar hard time finding color-compatible Russians.  Since I often use alternate-color units for elite units, this isn’t a deal-breaker for me to use your Soviet T-34’s and SU-85’s as “Super-Tanks,” but I can’t imagine that this is a good thing for your marketing prospects.

Bottom line: I’m left confused and at a bit of a loss as to how best to use them.  I’ll probably throw a few of them into my “advanced” kit for upgrades, but I can’t see replacing all of my WotC land units with TT land units, which, if others see things the same way, means a difference between say, one set per-nation-per-customer and myriads of sets per…  (I’ll probably buy more just to show my support once you have your own retail operation up-and-running, but you definitely need to do more careful market-research in the future.)

I hope all of this isn’t too discouraging, but I figure that my unflinching honesty will do you more good than my sugar-coating all this too much…

[DrLarsen]

Quick clarification: the Russians aren’t redder than the red Russian infantry that was used in some AAP sets as Chinese infantry (which means that they aren’t as red as the red Japanese from the earliest AAP sets).  The Red Russians I’m referring to are probably from an early-edition AAE (and this type includes a full range of units and not just infantry, like the straight red Russians used as Chinese in some AAP sets.)  These Russians are kind of a burgundy, not a straight red, but not the current maroon, either.  Either way, I’ve found BOTH types of Red Russians very hard to obtain, so my point about compatibility issues stands.

[Imperious Leader]

You made every point i made about 4 pages ago.

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=19297.360
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=19297.375

[Table Tactics]

@DrLarsen:

a. You’ve got uniform sets of rifle-stand infantry in 5 categories:
          i. rifle—14
          ii. SMG—6
          iii. AR—3
          iv. MG—6
          v. ATRL—3
[OK, so far so good, assuming I’m willing to give rifle-stand infantry a chance, I think I can come up with 5 types of infantry units…]

b. But with the tanks… is it supposed to be two size levels or three?
     c. Are you thinking a distinction between standard tank and TD?  But not all powers have a TD, and the ones that do have them in differing sizes…?

I can sure tell you are an author.

I started tooling 4 years back but then lost my job and put this project on hold.  The whole new A&A with the super size board was not on the radar back then.

The 14 rifle would have replaced the standard infantry in the regular game.  Then I figured players would add different types of infantry as the game went on.

I used prints that I believe are the same scale.  I scaled my tanks down uniformly.  Making the smallest tanks the size of the A&A tanks.  As for combat values I figured people would use history to set there die roll values.  A Sherman has more armor then a Hellcat.  If the Sherman was a 3/2 die tank then a Hellcat may be a 3/1.  What sided dice or attack and defense for each tank is up to you.

When I made my first products I added jeeps and made them 1/1 and cost 3 with a move of 2.  My half-track rules were 2/2 and cost 3.  I stuck with the die 6 system because I could fit all those new pieces into that system.

[Table Tactics]

Ps: for those interested the Russian units are up on fairplaygames.com

I restocked my old products and took inventory of the new stuff.

They didn’t realize they were out of German’s and Italian’s.  That may be because they are working on consignment at this time.

[knp7765]

I have placed my order for 3 sets of the Russians.  Looking forward to adding them to my Germans, Italians, British, Americans and Japanese sets.

Hey Jack,
Just curious.  What gave you the idea to use guns to represent infantry units instead of actual soldiers?

[DrLarsen]

I used prints that I believe are the same scale.  I scaled my tanks down uniformly.  Making the smallest tanks the size of the A&A tanks.

Hmm, that’s odd…!?!  Something must have been very off in the sizing of your originals, then… there’s no way that a Cromwell and a T-34 should be that much bigger than a Panther and yet that close in size to an even bigger Tiger, for instance.

You made every point i made about 4 pages ago.

Then be happy I’m agreeing with you, after having a chance to carefully compare the physical products side-by-side for myself, finally!

[Table Tactics]

@knp7765:

Hey Jack,
Just curious.  What gave you the idea to use guns to represent infantry units instead of actual soldiers?

I was getting a lot of requests for pieces like Paratroopers or marines.  From my view I figured having a soldiers standing with a different gun would be to hard to tell what he was.  A paratrooper is only a paratrooper when he is floating down.  After that he is just another soldiers.  Kind of the same thing with marines after they land.  So instead of making different types of soldiers I made different types of guns.
So you can class Thompson machine guns or FG-42’s as paratroopers or just provide them with different attack and defense numbers.

[Table Tactics]

This is only connected because money make things.  I just got an offer on the farm.  This will put money in my pocket and allow me to get moving again.  I have the Hungarian & French units on hold at the moment but this will get them back on track.

I’m also planning on attending Origins to introduce new pieces and our new game.

The only drawback is that Table Tactics will be operating out of a storage facility instead of my garage.

[reloader-1]

I’m so excited for French units, color matched, and in the sizes we requested - I’m predicting a runaway hit!

[cminke]

@Table:

This is only connected because money make things.  I just got an offer on the farm.  This will put money in my pocket and allow me to get moving again.  I have the Hungarian & French units on hold at the moment but this will get them back on track.

I’m also planning on attending Origins to introduce new pieces and our new game.

The only drawback is that Table Tactics will be operating out of a storage facility instead of my garage.

whats the diffrence

[Table Tactics]

@cminke:

@Table:

The only drawback is that Table Tactics will be operating out of a storage facility instead of my garage.

whats the diffrence

My garage was closer and free.

Just in case your interested.  I did an inventory and here is what is left from my old product.
New Edition Colors 23
New World Order 44
RISK 2042  49
A&A Accessories 94
When their gone that is it.  :-(

[crsluggo]

So, there is no possibility that you would reprint Cromwell 2026 &/or remould any of the pieces?

[cminke]

what’s in the NWO?

[Table Tactics]

@C_Strabala:

So, there is no possibility that you would reprint Cromwell 2026 &/or remould any of the pieces?

I kept some stuff to put together a few Cromwell games.  When my life settles down and I put some together I will stop here first to let you know.

[Table Tactics]

@cminke:

what’s in the NWO?

It was designed for the original A&A game.  It is very easy to transition into the game and it plays fast.  The set comes with modern pieces like Jet fighters, attack helicopters, hover craft, tanks and armored personnel carriers.  I have the rules posted on my site  tabletactics.com and you can see the pieces there.  FairPlayGames.com  has them on sale for under $12.00.

[KOOLHOVEN]

NWO-Great APCs/F16s!

[DrLarsen]

Modern Tanks too!  (M1’s, I think, though I wish the molds had a little more detail on them; nevertheless, they’re a good find, as they’re in A&A colors/scales, unlike any other modern tank pieces I’ve been able to find.)

Risk 2042 adds in some pretty decent helicopters and more of mostly the same land units, so definitely add that package to round out your modern-AA-variant collection.  I collected a ton of TT’s stuff, back when they cost twice as much, so consider his current prices a real bargain!

I’ve maintained hopes of him doing his Central Powers set in French blue… that would be a big step forward in making a decent WWI kit possible.  I guess that’s out of the question now?  Do you not have the old molds anymore, TT?

[Table Tactics]

@DrLarsen:

I’ve maintained hopes of him doing his Central Powers set in French blue… that would be a big step forward in making a decent WWI kit possible.  I guess that’s out of the question now?  Do you not have the old molds anymore, TT?

I still have the old molds.
Way back I ran the old mold in the Xeno colors and quickly sold off 500 sets of the historic pieces.  Then I was stuck with a bunch of modern units.  Stratamax Games designed the modern Cromwell game and I sold about 72 copies.  Most of the remaining pieces were ground up to run samples of the new stuff.
I did keep some to make a few more Cromwell games and it looks like I have interest in them.  :lol: