Similarities between Hitler and Napoleon:
1. They wanted to reinstate slavery
Napoleon did not “want” to reinstate slavery in Haiti. It’s important to remember that at that time, France had already been dealing with a slave rebellion in the colony of Saint-Domingue (Haiti) when Napoleon became head of state. Toussaint Louverture had led the island in an uprising and seized power. Bonaparte at first agreed to have Toussaint’s nation a sort of Protectorat, and named him captain general in March 1801. Very quickly, however, Toussaint was very violent and dictatorial, which endangered the colony. A French force landed on the island in January 1802 to stabilize the situation.
So the key here is not to know the outcome of this affair, but the conditions that made the intervention happen. The French navy, which controlled the colonies, recommended the expedition. Sugar and coffee traders pressed Bonaparte to reestablish slavery, abolishing the convention of 1794. He refused.
So in the spring of 1802 the situation shifted to the Antilles. The Treaty of Amiens, signed on March 25, 1802 with Britain, gave back France Martinique and Guadeloupe.
So THAT was the problem. Because the British had occupied it, Martinique had not benefited from the previous abolition measure. The competition between the two islands had been shifted to Guadeloupe’s disadvantage, to the point of provoking a collapse in production and an extremely serious social crisis that was resolved with much difficulty.
Bonaparte’s first thought was to give it in turn the benefits of abolition. The navy and business circles was strongly against this. The neighboring British colonies had remained slave economies, and so the same cause would produce the same ill-fated effects in Martinique. Bonaparte therefore tried to find a solution by maintaining the status quo on Martinique, but the Senate vetoed this in the same of the sacrosanct “republican” equality.
So Napoleon found himself with a terrible dilemma, a choice between cholera and the plague, between misery in economic chaos and a return to some form of slavery. He shouldered his responsibilities as a statesman and chose the 2nd decision advocated by the government.
Can one in good faith criticize Napoleon for having chosen the lesser evil? He is less guilty of slavery than the king of England or the tsar of Russia, who did not abolish slavery in their colonies or serfdom in Europe. Napoleon at least suppressed serfdom in Poland in 1807, and during 1815 he proposed to abolish slavery.
As for Guadeloupe, Bonaparte shared the responsibility for this decision with the representatives of the people who voted without soul-searching to reestablish slavery.
2.
They plundered conquered nations
“Plundered” means two very different things to them. Hitler “plundered” by trying to erase the Polish culture and establish German colonization of Eastern Europe. Napoleon “plundered” in 1796 on the explicit orders of his government, while he was in command of the Army of Italy. Even then, he made sure to take only what he was authorized to. Further, Napoleon sought to minimze the damage of war: during the siege of Mantua he proposed that all artistic monuments in the town, along with the university, should be protected by an agreed flag. (No, he did not do that just to take them for his government when the fortress fell: they were never removed.)
3. They startet wars against England and Russia
Britain violated the Treaty of Amiens while Bonaparte abided by every clause of the treaty. Even within the British government there was opposition to Britain’s war-like intentions. From 1803 to 1815, every conflict in Europe all stemmed from the war with Britain, which it started alone. As for Russia: Hitler made an alliance with with the Soviets so as not to fight her too early and to give him a free hand in Western Europe. The USSR also got half of Poland in the deal, something the Russians have always wanted. Napoleon, on the other hand, wanted to turn Russia into a staunch ally, and that is something that Tsar Alexander would never be. Hitler abruptly invaded the USSR on June 22, 1941. Napoleon did not. Alexander decided on war with France as early as 1810 and Napoleon’s plans went far beyond a sudden invasion.
4. They were atheists and anti-Christs
Napoleon was not atheist. If that was the case, he would not have completed a Concordat with the Pope and he would not have tried to re-establish religion in France after it was turned on its ear in the Revolution. He was raised Catholic and throughout his life believed in a supreme being. He was not as religious as many heads of state were at that time, but that doesn’t mean he was atheist.
Anti-Christs? I could never take Nostradamus seriously. He was a mad prophet, nothing more. He got just as many things wrong as he got right (and he only got those things right because he was being very broad).
5. They were killed by poison, Napoleon by arsenic and Hitler by cyanid.
This I can agree on. Napoleon was indeed murdered by someone within his own entourage (not the British, despite what already displeased French historians don’t believe)
They were born in other countries than they would become rulers. Napoleon in Corsica/France, Hitler in Austria/Germany.
Napoleon was born a French subject, as Corscia was French at that time. Hitler was born in Austria, in a foreign country, not pat of the German Empire.
6. They were both evil and murdered millions.
If Napoleon was evil, why is the Napoleonic Code considered one of the most widespread legal documents in existance? It’s even in effect to modified forms in the Canadian province of Quebec and the state of Louisiana! It’s the basis of law for much of Western Europe. Why would European governments base their laws based off of an “evil” man? What lasting achievements did Hitler leave behind?
As for him killing millions: I tire of repeating myself. Napoleon was not the sole instigator of the Napoleonic Wars. Britain murdered when it bombarded Copenhagen (twice!) in 1800 and 1807.
7. They had funny hats
Napoleon’s bicorne hat wasn’t considered funny at that time. What funny hat did Hitler have? :?
8. They were racists
See above on Haiti. Napoleon was not racist: he did not try to prove that the “French race” was superior to all others and deemed worthy of ruling Europe. He liberated the Jews and emancipated the Poles. To whom was he racist towards?
9. They ruined the old order and shaped Europa
Napoleon took no part in the early years of the French Revolution that “ruined the old order”. When he became head of state in 1799 he inherited not only the Revolution, but the wars that followed it. Hitler was a monster and established state sponsored, assembly line murder that destroyed over eleven million innocent souls. When he came to power he also abolished civil rights, destroyed the Weimar Republic, which was a fledgling democracy, and ruled by decree. Napoleon guaranteed the social gains of the Revolution upon assuming power in 1799 (having replaced the unpopular, corrupt, and inefficient Directory). Wherever French rule ran, there was basic civil rights, freedom of religion, an end to serfdom and feudalism, and equality before the law. The French republic was not a democracy, and the modern idea of democracy was not in existence in 1799, not in the United States or Great Britain either.
10. They were great architects and build lots of monuments.
Napoleon built harbors, roads, canals, drained swamps, introduced smallpox vaccine to the continent, built no new palaces, though he did build memorials to the Grande Armee.
11. They were both 5’something tall
Nothing wrong with that. Most people are 5’something tall.
12. They were born on mondays, and died on wednesdays
facepalm
Well, I just hope the mods doesn’t view this as developing into a flame war. I’m just giving my points. No personal insults have flung around, especially not to good ol’ Razor :-D
Umm, keep in mind that Britain was the 1st country to abolish the slave trade, in 1807.
How was Toussaint a violent dictator?
Umm, keep in mind that Britain was the 1st country to abolish the slave trade, in 1807.
In February 1794 the French Convention formally abolished slavery.
How was Toussaint a violent dictator?
Well, the ‘liberation’ of the slaves is merely a name change. Under Toussaint and his crowd, the same jobs were done by the same people and not much changed overall. Toussaint was a talented individual, but a great ‘liberator’ he was not. He wanted to be in charge and didn’t change the overall situation in Haiti. Again, Bonaparte was perfectly content with having Haiti as a sort of protectorate under France, independent but reliant on her protection, but as I stated above, he was under pressure from the crop and naval circles of re-establishing slavery there.
@UN:
How is the Napoleonic Code (which had equality of all in the eyes of the law, no recognition of privileges of birth [i.e. noble rights inherited from ancestors], freedom of religion, separation of the church and the state, the freedom to work in an occupation of one’s choice, and other basic legal rights) as absurd as the traditionalist, absolute monarchy ideals that most of Europe still went by at that time?
Yah, thats my point. Napoleon was a much better warlord who embraced the enlightenment, as opposed to Hitler who based his veiws of soceity on myth and racism.
@UN:
Umm, keep in mind that Britain was the 1st country to abolish the slave trade, in 1807.
In February 1794 the French Convention formally abolished slavery.
How was Toussaint a violent dictator?
Well, the ‘liberation’ of the slaves is merely a name change. Under Toussaint and his crowd, the same jobs were done by the same people and not much changed overall. Toussaint was a talented individual, but a great ‘liberator’ he was not. He wanted to be in charge and didn’t change the overall situation in Haiti. Again, Bonaparte was perfectly content with having Haiti as a sort of protectorate under France, independent but reliant on her protection, but as I stated above, he was under pressure from the crop and naval circles of re-establishing slavery there.
In May 1802, that abolition was revoked by Napoleon’s regime. In 1794, he wasn’t in power.
By the way, the British abolition of the slave trade applied to its colonies, since the British Isles had phased out slavery already.
In May 1802, that abolition was revoked by Napoleon’s regime. In 1794, he wasn’t in power.
Yes. But that is because, as I stated above, he was forced to re-introduce some form of slavery to the colonies from the government he lead. He did not support slavery and did not want to see it re-introduced.
By the way, the British abolition of the slave trade applied to its colonies, since the British Isles had phased out slavery already.
Correct. But that is because Britain was an established nation. Its government has been largely unchanged for a long time. The French Republic, and later Empire, were relatively new countries. The fact that Napoleon gave political and religious freedom to Europeans that they hithero had felt should make up for that.
I think having a debate about which nation was more enlightened or nicer to the slaves is a bit moot. Both were the two most civilized countries in Europe, government or no government, and both were perfectly capable of bringing peace and order to the continent. That was certainly on Bonaparte’s mind in 1802. Not so much a certain William Pitt.
He was a dictator, right? If he didn’t want slavery, why couldn’t he just abolish it?
I really don’t think the Brits cared about what happened on the continent UNLESS they felt threatened that France would either try to blockade Britain or try to disrupt its shipping or conquer its colonies
Same thing France did. France felt threatened by Austria, Prussia, Russia, and apparently Spain so it invaded them. Britain felt threatened by France’s power and thus sought to stop its conquests.
He was a dictator, right? If he didn’t want slavery, why couldn’t he just abolish it?
Napoleon was not a dictator as First Consul. A dictator, in Rome, had both decreed and applied the law; moreoever, he was not elected by the people. In no sense, then, can Napoleon be called a dictator. Actually, on the contrary, if democracy is a system under which the whole people confides the government to magistrates of its choice elected for a limited period, then by the new Constitution France would be entering upon democracy. Although much of the governmental power was on Bonaparte, he did not wield absolute and supreme power, and his actions were very much limited by the Consulate. When he was Emperor this was different, but to call him a “dictator” as Emperor is still pushing it, as a government still existed around the central imperial figure. He held constitutional monarchial power, not absolute monarchial power.
I really don’t think the Brits cared about what happened on the continent UNLESS they felt threatened that France would either try to blockade Britain or try to disrupt its shipping or conquer its colonies
At the Treaty of Amiens, there was free trading between both countries, and no blockades of any sort were threatened by Napoleon. Britain was VERY caring to what happened on the Continent after the French Revolution. Remember that Britain just suffered a humiliating defeat by the American colonists in 1783. The defeat had been a blow to the King personally, to British pride, and to British trade. The defeat hardened political opinion in London of the ruling few, and suddenly this second upstart republic, this time in Europe, had overthrown monarchy. Britain had yielded once, but they were damned if she would yield again!
Britain was very reluctant to be at peace with France for several reasons, event though the French Revolutionary Wars cost it almost 400 million pounds. For one thing, they weren’t prepared to suffer another Yorktown, and they considered peace with a greatly enlarged France would be tantamount to that. Also, they were now closely linked by a network of friendships with French royal families in exile. Windham, British Secretary at War, particularly promised to get them back their estates and privileges. But last but not least was the fact that by bringing order and justice to France Napoleon had rendered the Revolution attractive to people outside the country; if Napoleon was also to give peace to Europe, where might Revolutionary doctrines not spread?
As Edmund Burke wrote to William Greenvile, Pitt’s Foreign Minister: “it is not the enmity but the friendship of France that is truly terrible. Her intercourse, her example, the spread of her doctrines are the most dreadful of her arms.”
Same thing France did. France felt threatened by Austria, Prussia, Russia, and apparently Spain so it invaded them. Britain felt threatened by France’s power and thus sought to stop its conquests.
You are absolutely (almost) correct.
However, this happened while Napoleon was not in power.
After France became a republic it was very much threatened by its neighbors, what with every crowned head threatening to wipe out this foothold of republicanism on their continent and plopping the Bourbons back on the throne. When France, at war with Austria, invaded Belgium, which was an Austrian possession, both the oligarchs and British businessmen became alarmed, for Antwerp were the front door for British trade with Europe. In January 1793 William Pitt announced in the Commons that Britain was at war with France and it would be ‘a war of extermination’.
Plus, Russia did not get involved in Western European politicis until 1798. It was too busy dismantling Poland.
I wouldn’t compare them. Wholly different.
Just look at their uniword names - one is of his first, the other of his last.
They both were despots who usurped power by various means and were involved in many wars in the name of their own causes. In both men Europe considered them tyrants and tried to rid them both.
I wouldn’t compare them. Wholly different.
Just look at their uniword names - one is of his first, the other of his last.
Wikipedia calls him Bonaparte.
@Imperious:
They both were despots who usurped power by various means and were involved in many wars in the name of their own causes. In both men Europe considered them tyrants and tried to rid them both.
Indeed. Napoleon and Caesar both were tyrants in their own right, but Caesar was a successful tyrant with the love of the people of Rome and eventually the love of the people of the Roman empire, Napoleon wasnt successful he failed spectacularly and he didnt have the love of the people he conquered or in the end even that of the French people because he failed them.
At the end of the day both Hitler and Napoleon went up against the juggernauts of their era’s and lost. History is written by the victors and considering both Napoleon and Hitler were ultimately unsuccessful in their plans for conquest they will forever be grouped together with those who almost had it all but not quite.
How differently we would view Napoleon if he defeated the Russians and made peace with the British, he would be viewed like Caesar or Alexander as a great all conquering general who brought new ideas and ways of thinking to the masses?
How differently again would we view Hitler if they had of won the Battle of Britain and Operation Barbarossa had been successful, anything about all the things the Nazi’s did would of been airbrushed away and the pages of history would read very differently, the Nazi’s would write how much they helped the conquered people and how they liberated them from corrupt governments and oppression.
What i’ve learnt over the past few years of reading a lot about history is the truth is largely irrelevant, we dont know the truth of what came before us only what people brand as the truth. So even first hand information has to be taken with a pinch of salt. Even in relatively modern history we gloss over the crimes of the allies regardless of how necessary or un-necessary they actually were. We forget about the firebombing of Japanses cities than killed several times more people than both atomic bombs put together, the bombing of Dresden that was only done for the sake of nothing but revenge. Those can both be constrewed as both necessary or un-necessary in hindsight but those on the front lines didnt have luxury of knowing how their actions would turn out. But the fact that we gloss over them in history classes is a travesty, people need to know the cost in both victory and defeat and that while war is ultimately necessary their is always a high price to be paid whether its the lives of the brave men and women who fight the wars or the souls of those very same soldiers.
I leave you with a quote by Friedrich Nietzsche
“He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster.”
Things not yet mentioned:
They both killed and executed resistors.
They both stole works of art; Napolean had those Etruscan statues from Florence and Goering did his bit for Hitler.
and Goering did his bit for Hitler.
You mean Goering did his bit for Goering. :-D
One of the…… well I guess you could say good things, caused by Napoleons wars was the destruction of the inquisition in Spain and other Catholic countries. The weaking of papal influnce did more for Europe and future develpoment of European society then anything else.
Indeed. Napoleon and Caesar both were tyrants in their own right, but Caesar was a successful tyrant with the love of the people of Rome and eventually the love of the people of the Roman empire, Napoleon wasnt successful he failed spectacularly and he didnt have the love of the people he conquered or in the end even that of the French people because he failed them.
Are you kidding me? If Napoleon didn’t get the love of the people he conqured why is he still admired by many Italians, Poles, Germans? The Polish especially, as Napoleon liberated them from the Prussian, Russian, and Austrian junkers.
His might have fell but the Empire still survives in codes of law and national identity. I don’t need to repeat how widespread the Napoleonic Code is. His military tactics are studied around the world over. I wouldn’t say he failed spectacularly.
How differently we would view Napoleon if he defeated the Russians and made peace with the British, he would be viewed like Caesar or Alexander as a great all conquering general who brought new ideas and ways of thinking to the masses?
A better question would be to ask, how differently would we view Napoleon if the British and their warmongering European allies didn’t constantly force him to wage defensive wars?
Napoleon proved more a benign dictator like Ceasar, **merely interesed in fame and glory in conqueirng others. ** Where are Napoleon’s chopping blocks? Where are Napoleon’s camps? Where are Napoleon’s thoughts and actions on government? Dictator, yes. Fascist, no.
facepalm
Is that what you call it? That’s all he went for, huh? Just power and glory and fame, nothing else? Sigh…
@Raunchy:
Things not yet mentioned:
They both killed and executed resistors.
They both stole works of art; Napolean had those Etruscan statues from Florence and Goering did his bit for Hitler.
Except Napoleon was perfectly entitled to execute the Duke of Enghien, who was forming a insurrection against France to overthrow the Republic and re-install the monarchy.
And again, Napoleon “stole” works of art on explicit orders from his government when he was still General Bonaparte; and even while he did he made sure to minimize it to just what was requested. He despised looting and prevented every sign of it.
@Imperious:
They both were despots who usurped power by various means and were involved in many wars in the name of their own causes. In both men Europe considered them tyrants and tried to rid them both.
Yeah, except Napoleon was the only legitimate monarch in Europe. When he was crowned Emperor it was by approval of the people and the Senate, not by divine right (which is why he had it to where he crowned himself, with the Pope presiding, so it did not seem like he was being crowned by divine right).
@UN:
Indeed. Napoleon and Caesar both were tyrants in their own right, but Caesar was a successful tyrant with the love of the people of Rome and eventually the love of the people of the Roman empire, Napoleon wasnt successful he failed spectacularly and he didnt have the love of the people he conquered or in the end even that of the French people because he failed them.
Are you kidding me? If Napoleon didn’t get the love of the people he conqured why is he still admired by many Italians, Poles, Germans? The Polish especially, as Napoleon liberated them from the Prussian, Russian, and Austrian junkers.
His might have fell but the Empire still survives in codes of law and national identity. I don’t need to repeat how widespread the Napoleonic Code is. His military tactics are studied around the world over. I wouldn’t say he failed spectacularly.
How differently we would view Napoleon if he defeated the Russians and made peace with the British, he would be viewed like Caesar or Alexander as a great all conquering general who brought new ideas and ways of thinking to the masses?
A better question would be to ask, how differently would we view Napoleon if the British and their warmongering European allies didn’t constantly force him to wage defensive wars?
He is admired today after the fact, at the time he was one of the most hated men in Europe, only after nationalism took hold in the late 19th and early 20th century was he viewed as more than just a tyrant. He was trying to build an empire, had he of been successful its possible he could of become either the most hated man in all of history if he was a bad leader or one of the most admired if he treated all the people under his dominion fairly.
Nationalism was a means to an end, it helped him gain allies in order to overthrow governments but in the end it back fired because if they dont want to be part of someone elses empire why would they want to be part of yours.
He may have a legacy of being a brilliant tactician, but at the end of the day like Hannibal of Carthage he was a failed tactician he won many battles but ultimately lost the war for this reason he will be forgotten long before the names and triumphs of the empires of his enemies. For this reason in a few centuries when Napoleon’s legacy has faded away people will not remember the name Napoleon but they will still know the name Caesar.
What I meant when I said he failed spectacularly was that he failed on a grand scale, it all came down to one decisive battle that could of decided the fate of the entire world and he lost.
During individual battles and even overall campaigns Napoleon was shown to be a brilliant leader and commander but he let ambition get in the way of logistics for instance a winter war against the Russians was never going to be won.
As far as the British making him fight defensive wars I dont really think that is the case, Napoleon was stirring up trouble all over Britains empire, in India, Canada and the former colony of the United States. Napoleon made the mistake of thinking he could defeat the British in a global war and win the war against the kingdoms of Europe much like Hitler he made the mistake of fighting the war on too many fronts with limited resources.
