Congratulations: I could not wait to be a Tank (and wished I could have remained one!).
I started playing in 87 at university.
How did playtesters miss J1 attack?
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@Dylan:
@Dylan:
1. You didn’t attack on J1
2. When you did attack, you didn’t invade the Philippines, even though i had 1 infantry defending it
3. You didn’t try for the DEI1. I didn’t want China and India ganging up on me
2. I didn’t know where all my transports were.
3. DEI?1. :? :? :? China is already at war with Japan and India can declare war on Japan whenever it likes
2. :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? Why not?
3. Dutch East Indies1. Well most Indian players wouldn’t want to go to war with Japan early
2. Because all I was using was some setup cards, and my brain, I don’t think I could even reach.
3. I would be too close to ANZAC who could at the time take be down of what ever could reach.1. If they don’t, then they don’t gang up on Japan
2. Do you have an actual game set?
3. ANZAC, with 10 ipcs? -
@Dylan:
@Dylan:
1. You didn’t attack on J1
2. When you did attack, you didn’t invade the Philippines, even though i had 1 infantry defending it
3. You didn’t try for the DEI1. I didn’t want China and India ganging up on me
2. I didn’t know where all my transports were.
3. DEI?1. :? :? :? China is already at war with Japan and India can declare war on Japan whenever it likes
2. :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? Why not?
3. Dutch East Indies1. Well most Indian players wouldn’t want to go to war with Japan early
2. Because all I was using was some setup cards, and my brain, I don’t think I could even reach.
3. I would be too close to ANZAC who could at the time take be down of what ever could reach.1. If they don’t, then they don’t gang up on Japan
2. Do you have an actual game set?
3. ANZAC, with 10 ipcs?1. But they will
2. Yes, but I had a game going (with friends)
3. Yes you were saving and building fighters. -
To interrupt this little discussion going on, I think the playtesters saw that there were a number of ways to slow Japan in their attempt to take India. Too much delay, and the allies will be able to hurt Japan elsewhere. The key moves are to put ANZAC’s starting destroyer and sub in SZ55, base all ANZAC fighters on Queensland, and to play aggressively with Britain (move everything that starts in India to Burma and build 2 infantry, 1 mech, and 1 armor).
What this allows you to do is it lets Britain retake Shan State both that and Malaya fall J2. Then ANZAC can hit SZ37 with up to 1 ss, 1 dd, 4 figs. If you keep the destroyer alive, it will block any units at the Kwangsi naval base. The first game I used that, Japan still won so I don’t know if it’s enough, but it delayed India’s death and knocked out a lot of the Japanese navy.
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Isn’t Z55 2 spaces from the Philippines sea zone? Also, why waste that transport there if you want to take Dutch New Guinea?
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I usually just send the transport up to New Guinea alone. SZ55 is 2 spaces from Philippines sea zone, but both times I’ve used this strategy, Japan has had other targets to send their planes at.
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I usually just send the transport up to New Guinea alone. SZ55 is 2 spaces from Philippines sea zone, but both times I’ve used this strategy, Japan has had other targets to send their planes at.
If you put both at Z54, they can reach everywhere Z55 can reach and they’re more protected
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Depending on where the Japanese fleet is and the number of ground troops they have, I use SZ55 as a blocking point so that they can’t reach Queensland. If there isn’t any way for Japan to threaten Queensland, I will use SZ54.
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I’ve seen this too, but with the UK DD and CR combining there. It can still get squashed.
But you did mention that Japan was busy with other targets. I had always thought that if there were just too many stacks of units in menacing places, that Japan would have to stretch thin to hit them all. Cost Japan enough planes, that sweeping Austrtalia when the time comes is tough.
That’s my idea, anyway.
I’ve yet to see a situation where I didn’t have enough planes to hit everything and still come out smelling like roses, though…
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I’m not saying the destroyer won’t get crushed at all. I’m just saying that by giving yourself options, it allows you to fight Japan effectively. There is a well established Japanese plan, and Japan sets the tempo of the game. The Allies need flexibility and the ability to strike in multiple ways in order to trip up Japan.
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I don’t disagree … but …
I have seen the allies make stands in a number of places - even stand in as many places as they can - and still get squashed. I just have so many planes, that I can afford to lose even half and still take Sydney (or Hawaii if the situation arose).
Unless I screw up as Japan (and I have) I see no way of stopping them. Lord Neilsen made me ask for a stalemate, but that was more he outplayed me, than game balance. I’m really out of ideas on this, other than a bid.
To be honest, in a little over a month, everyone will be playing Europe or the linked game. This will stop being played as a stand alone game, I would think. It won’t matter soon.
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This is what I don’t understand, Jim. True, Japan starts with a lot of planes, but if you lose half your planes taking Sydney or Hawaii, what’s been destroying India and China during that offensive? You can’t do both at the same time with the same effectiveness as a single target. And what’s left to counter the ever-growing American fleet?
The key to beating Japan is dividing and conquering their navy. Even when Japan is getting 60+ IPCS, they still have to split it against India/China, ANZAC and building a navy to counter the US. They can’t keep up with America if they’re spending IPCS on land units.
As the allies, I try and stretch the Japanese navy. If Japan goes all out against India, I have them build a navy. The Japanese planes won’t be in range for several turns, and every fighter/naval unit lost helps America out. So to does any fodder that Japan sends there way (destroyers/subs).
Knowing there is nothing you can do to stop India from being sacked, I figure the best thing is to take out the units that matter most to America: navy. You start with enough planes to be able to build a carrier per turn for some time.
When Australia is left for last, I tend to have at least 2 loaded carriers (all fighters) with a transport threatening the DEI. Same as above, if They break off more to deal with it, or take out Sydney first, it’s less attacking India and threatening the US fleet.
While Japan can most certainly crush India, Sydney, or Hawaii at will, taking one of those is by no means a guaranteed victory.
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One thing you can do as the Allies to throw a curve ball at the Japanese is to build a CV for the British on B1. On ANZAC 1, save at least 6 IPCs and lay down a CV on ANZAC2 in SZ62. If you move the US at start fleet to New Zealand on US2 from Pearl, and move the British fleet to SZ56 on B2, then the Japanese have a dilema on J3, as the US fleet in New Zealand, and whatever air the US may have in Australia, can counter-attack SZ56 from New Zealand. The ANZACers can follow up with a smaller, part two, counter-attack in their portion of the third turn as well, from SZ 62.
When the British make the move from SZ39 to SZ56, they can swap out their fighters for ANZACer fighters if they wish, leaving India strong.
J3 is generally the turn in which the Japanese will want to take Singapore to get ready for the major IC there on J4, and will have to face the fact that if they wish to take out the British fleet before it links up with the rest of the Allied CVs in SZ54, they’ll have to divert carrier air from the assault on Singapore to conduct an air assault on the British fleet. If the Japanese try to take on the British with Navy, the US and ANZACers are positioned to counter attack.
If the US buys a CV on US1, and it is at Pearl on US2, and Japanese let the British fleet go by on J3, then the Allies can put the British fleet, the ANZAC CV + DD in SZ62, the US fleet at New Zealand, and the US CV at Pearl all in SZ54 on turn 3.
The Allies will then have a strong defensive position in SZ54 to attack out of in later turns.
The main problem with this is that while a multinational fleet may be great on defense, it isn’t too terribly good on offense…at least until the US can pour more units into that SZ.
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This is what I don’t understand, Jim. True, Japan starts with a lot of planes, but if you lose half your planes taking Sydney or Hawaii, what’s been destroying India and China during that offensive? You can’t do both at the same time with the same effectiveness as a single target. And what’s left to counter the ever-growing American fleet?
In my worst game here online, I lost 12 planes after completely taking China and India. That left 16 planes. Easily more than what I needed to take Sydney.
If you have something that works, try it out. Gargantua and Calvin and Hobbesliker are testing out an idea against me as well. They’ve already shown me some interesting moves I like (but I think I’m still going to win both :-D )
Again, though, I repeat: when AAE40 gets here, who is going to play pacific as a stand alone game? I think we all (me included) will move onto the new game and on occasion play the combined game.
Kauf - your idea sounds like it may grind out a few more Jap planes. If I have less than a dozen planes, I find that I can’t take Sydney by turn 7. Care to try it?
Cheers
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Kauf - your idea sounds like it may grind out a few more Jap planes. If I have less than a dozen planes, I find that I can’t take Sydney by turn 7. Care to try it?
Cheers
Oh hell no, the Allies are a lost cause in AAP40! :-o :lol:
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I’m 90% sure of that as well, but there’s still that 10% - which is why I try to get games going to see if something fleshes out.
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I’m 90% sure of that as well, but there’s still that 10% - which is why I try to get games going to see if something fleshes out.
A buddy of mine and myself have gutted out well over 150 hours of game play trying to find that “magic move”, so if you find it, be sure and let the rest of the world know! :-D
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Kauf, I posted your strat on Harris’s site, and here’s a reply I got:
Calvinhobbesliker,So how does taking India win you the game? On J6, you have infantry that can hit most of Australia…but you still don’t have India yet. Plus it’s 5 full turns for Australia to reinforce, and for America to help them. The real question is, once India falls, what do you have left to take Sydney or Hawaii?
From your post, it’s hard to say exactly without all the details. So are you leaving Australia with its transport or taking it out? Are you killing the British BB and 2 trannies? Are you taking FIC and Kwangtung?
And what are you buying on all of those turns? Planes? A navy until you have a factory placed?
How much of the Japanese navy do you break off to attack the Philippines?
But how long will it take for Japan to take India after your plan? Would you march through land, pumping out 10 infantry a turn? Or go with a naval assault? Either necessitates planes or ships pulled away from the East, strengthening America’s position. There has to be enough protection for your trannies to withstand the UK airforce. By turn 5 you haven’t assaulted India yet, which could be 4 additional UK fighters, bringing their total up to 8 and a tac bomber.
At the end of the post you state: Japan still usually has its giant fleet at Malaya and you can’t destroy it.
Why can’t I destroy it as America? If it’s around Malaya, you’re not protecting Japan. And you’ve spent a lot of money on a factory and 10 infantry, and from what I’ve read, you’re not reinforcing China in favor of going after the VC’s.US1: Buy 2 transports.
US2: Buy 2 battleships, 1 transport, 1 infantry, 1 artillery
US3: Buy 2 battleships, 1 Aircraft Carrier
US4: Move fleet to Hawaii
US5: Attack JapanThus Japan has to fend off 1 Sub, 1 Destroyer, 1 Cruiser, 5 Battleships, 2 loaded Carriers, and 4 loaded Transports.
Japan’s starting fleet can’t counter that.
“But I’d by X Y & Z to counter!” Well, all of that navy being purchased comes from the same limited pool that has to buy a major factory, 10 infantry, an replace plane losses.
You also have to take India, which could have 10+ infantry, 8 fighters and 1 tac bomber. The UK needs to move the Malaya stack back to India. Japan has enough airforce to incinerate them, so I’d rather move them back to the fighter cover.A third factor is China. You’ve made no mention of reinforcing them, or placing a minor factory on the mainland. I suppose that if you don’t reinforce it there, you’ll have more money for India and the US fleet, however, after several turns of neglect, China will start to threaten your hold on Kiangsu and Kwangtung.
There is a counter to everything, especially in the void of a forum. Yes, Japan has a sizeable starting force, but they can’t be everywhere on the board at once.
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Kauf, I posted your strat on Harris’s site, and here’s a reply I got:
Calvinhobbesliker,So how does taking India win you the game? On J6, you have infantry that can hit most of Australia…but you still don’t have India yet. Plus it’s 5 full turns for Australia to reinforce, and for America to help them. The real question is, once India falls, what do you have left to take Sydney or Hawaii?
From your post, it’s hard to say exactly without all the details. So are you leaving Australia with its transport or taking it out? Are you killing the British BB and 2 trannies? Are you taking FIC and Kwangtung?
And what are you buying on all of those turns? Planes? A navy until you have a factory placed?
How much of the Japanese navy do you break off to attack the Philippines?
But how long will it take for Japan to take India after your plan? Would you march through land, pumping out 10 infantry a turn? Or go with a naval assault? Either necessitates planes or ships pulled away from the East, strengthening America’s position. There has to be enough protection for your trannies to withstand the UK airforce. By turn 5 you haven’t assaulted India yet, which could be 4 additional UK fighters, bringing their total up to 8 and a tac bomber.
At the end of the post you state: Japan still usually has its giant fleet at Malaya and you can’t destroy it.
Why can’t I destroy it as America? If it’s around Malaya, you’re not protecting Japan. And you’ve spent a lot of money on a factory and 10 infantry, and from what I’ve read, you’re not reinforcing China in favor of going after the VC’s.US1: Buy 2 transports.
US2: Buy 2 battleships, 1 transport, 1 infantry, 1 artillery
US3: Buy 2 battleships, 1 Aircraft Carrier
US4: Move fleet to Hawaii
US5: Attack JapanThus Japan has to fend off 1 Sub, 1 Destroyer, 1 Cruiser, 5 Battleships, 2 loaded Carriers, and 4 loaded Transports.
Japan’s starting fleet can’t counter that.
“But I’d by X Y & Z to counter!” Well, all of that navy being purchased comes from the same limited pool that has to buy a major factory, 10 infantry, an replace plane losses.
You also have to take India, which could have 10+ infantry, 8 fighters and 1 tac bomber. The UK needs to move the Malaya stack back to India. Japan has enough airforce to incinerate them, so I’d rather move them back to the fighter cover.A third factor is China. You’ve made no mention of reinforcing them, or placing a minor factory on the mainland. I suppose that if you don’t reinforce it there, you’ll have more money for India and the US fleet, however, after several turns of neglect, China will start to threaten your hold on Kiangsu and Kwangtung.
There is a counter to everything, especially in the void of a forum. Yes, Japan has a sizeable starting force, but they can’t be everywhere on the board at once.
I thought you died, it was two days that you didn’t log on, mini vacation?
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Kauf, I posted your strat on Harris’s site, and here’s a reply I got:
Calvinhobbesliker,So how does taking India win you the game? On J6, you have infantry that can hit most of Australia…but you still don’t have India yet. Plus it’s 5 full turns for Australia to reinforce, and for America to help them. The real question is, once India falls, what do you have left to take Sydney or Hawaii?
When India falls, and China is all but finished, all you have to be able to do is add. If that guy can’t do that, he can buy a calculator.
If China is down to one territory, the Japanese will be sitting on a major IC in Singapore, with 77 IPCs a turn. US and ANZAC IPCs will be at 70.
US1: Buy 2 transports.
US2: Buy 2 battleships, 1 transport, 1 infantry, 1 artillery
US3: Buy 2 battleships, 1 Aircraft Carrier
US4: Move fleet to Hawaii
US5: Attack JapanAttack Japan on US 5 with 4 transports!?! I’d leave my about 15 a/c on the island and avoid the sea battle, easily defeating the land attack. Then on my next turn I’d fall like a ton of bricks on that US fleet. Game over. On turn 3 the Japanese are earning 60+ IPCs, if the US spends the whole first 5 turns telescoping their move like that, why bother playing?
The US is going to spend 20 per BB, and as Japan, I’ll match his BBs with 2 fighters, or maybe a ftr & dive bomber. When the $hit hits the fan, I’ll be getting twice as many shots in combat as the US player.
BBs just aren’t cost effective.
Japan’s starting fleet can’t counter that.
Does this guy think the Japanese don’t bother buying anything for the first 5 turns?!? Gimme a freakin’ break, that’s nothing more than pipe dreaming there. I could even wonder whether that guy has ever played the game!?!
The UK needs to move the Malaya stack back to India. Japan has enough airforce to incinerate them, so I’d rather move them back to the fighter cover.
They’ll never make it back unless you move them out right on B1, leaving Singapore wide open and giving the Japanese a nice present along with their major IC a full turn earlier without even having to loose one troop. Those troops will come back and bite the Allies in the a$$.
Once Britian is bottled up in India and the Japanese park a couple subs off the coast…
A third factor is China. You’ve made no mention of reinforcing them, or placing a minor factory on the mainland. I suppose that if you don’t reinforce it there, you’ll have more money for India and the US fleet, however, after several turns of neglect, China will start to threaten your hold on Kiangsu and Kwangtung.
There are a lot of things that Japan has to do, I’ve yet to see China threaten Hong Kong. A 12 IPC minor IC is all that Japan would need to help in China in a worse case scenario. I mean, come on, the Japanese have loads of air assets vs men only.
There is a counter to everything, especially in the void of a forum. Yes, Japan has a sizeable starting force, but they can’t be everywhere on the board at once.
But they can be everywhere they need to be to win the game. It’s the Allies that can’t be everywhere they need to be to even get into the game.
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Kaufschtick’s idea of combining an Allied carrier fleet near Australia on about turn 3 or 4 seems to be the best looking play I’ve seen so far. At first it’s only defensive but over time it will develop attacking power. It reminds me of a similar move in original AAP where the UK bought a carrier in Australia, and then move to northern Australia with 4 carriers to threaten any/all of the Japanese money islands.
After only 3 games of AAP40 I can say that Japan is overpowered and that India falling from turn 4 is a given. The key thing then is placing the ANZACs and US in a good position from that same time, and this play seems to achieve that. Once the US has had a couple of turns to churn out 1 Bmb, 1 Trn, 2 Sub, 3 DD it will begin to have enough fodder units and heavy hitting power to either advance towards Japan or recapture the DEI etc.
Whether reducing UK/India to a helpless target every time is fun for the UK player is another question entirely! :?
Lozza007
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