US Strategy

[Van_Trump]

@kaufschtick:

I don’t know fellas, but I’m thinking that the US and ANZAC player(s) had better start thinking and building from the onset with the thought in mind that India & China are going to fall, sooner or later.

I would even go so far as to suggest the following. ANZAC1 buy 1 transport, bank 3 IPCs. Send the at start Transport to New Guinea with two infantry with the aim of securing Dutch New Guinea and hopefully getting the ANZAC income to 15 IPCs by ANZAC2.

I’d go even further by suggesting that the RAF fly out of India at the latest possible turn and fly to Australia, where they can reach either Western Australia or the Northern Territory.

The cool thing for the Allies when India falls, is that the Japanese won’t recieve a really big boost to their IPCs from capturing India for gaining Britians currently held IPCs! Britian will normally only be holding like 3 or 4 IPCs…maybe. With a sub sitting off India, Britian collects only 2 IPCs, and it could be down to just 1!  So if you see the Japanese pull a sub off the shores of India, you know he or she is going to strike the next turn! If they don’t they will have just sunk 2/3 IPCs they could have captured; just saying.

Anyway, if Japan controls all of China, and all of Britian’s stuff (they hopefully don’t have Canadian B.C.) in the Far East, Vietnam, the DEI & the PI, they’ll be at 73 with the DEI bonus.

The Allies could be at 55 for the US and 15 for the ANZAC player with that bonus, which is 70. Like I said earlier, if the US grabs Iwo early on, it’d be 72 Japan vs 71 Allies. Japan going for Australia, the US trying to get a toe hold in Asia. I mean, at this point, by comparing IPCs, it should still be a game. If the ANZACers get a second minor IC going, then I’m hoping that Australia could be a tough fight.

Who knows though, we’ve always sold out the Allied buys and moves on trying to go all out to save India, and that has always resulted in Australia being wide open.

If the Allies try instead concentrating on building up Australia right off, and the US building up it’s air strength and grabbing key bases to work from early like Iwo; a naval base on Wake; trying to grab Guam or the Marshalls; then it could be a game. The Allies use China and Britian to grind down as much Japanese units as is possible while allowing the US & ANZACers to build up strength for the coming fight.

Who knows, maybe in the Europe version, India will have another half that the British can fall back further to? I mean, if Austarlia now has several territories with a total of like 7 or so IPCs overall, surely India won’t just be a one, 3 IPC territory? The other half surely has to have another seperate territory with it’s own IPC value and possibly IC & bases.

So maybe the design took into account that India may get whacked, but the Japanese still need 6 VCs to win.

It is an interesting strategy. After a J1 capture of Midway, India still falls; just a turn or 2 later.

Do you really want to know Japan’s counter?

Ok. If I see the UK fighters pull out of India before it falls I buy subs on Japan’s next turn.
In fact, I probably buy the subs the turn before India falls regardless.
The following turn the subs go to TRUK and the turn after that they surround a certain island continent that begins with the letter A.
It becomes UK all over again. With an income near zero the fall of Sydney is only a matter of time.
Japan can DD screen the US to delay reinforcements. Of course if Japan has a fully reinforced Midway naval base (established on J1) the Americans have other concerns.

I am going to institute house rules of NO J1 attacks on allies. Or have Japan take their turn last for even more of an Allied boost.
It makes for a more interesting game with even chances on both sides instead of this logic experiment of finding some master stroke by the Allies to threaten Japan early on,
Only to have it countered by Kaufschtick.

[kaufschtick]

@Buckeyeboy:

What I was referring to by “heavy sub and air buys”, was maybe 3 subs a turn for the US. Along with 1 or 2 loaded transports, and rest of the IPCs in air craft.

What I was thinking of, is an island hopping campaign. Buy a naval base for Wake, and set the US fleet there. Yes, leave a little something in HI for defense, but use Wake as the jumping off point. From there, send 1 trans to Iwo with a tank and a man. J will kill the trans, but you will have the island. On the following turn, send in a bunch of planes and and build an air base, the turn after that you can reinforce w/ Inf and and have air cover for your trans. On the same turn you build the air base, you can send another trans to Guam or the PI and try the same strategy there. Pumping men ( to hold the island bases) and air craft forward to support your subs, which by now would spread out in the J shipping lanes, taking away IPCs and hopefully helping to kill J DD’s along with the newly arrived air power. The bulk of the US fleet would just stay at Wake as a threat, unless J gives you a juicy present.

The goal of the drive would be to start pumping men to the Asian mainland and get an IC built. Then you can really put the heat on J.

I know this sounds really good on paper, but I will not have the chance to try it out f2f until 4/21. If even part of this works, I would think that it would pull some J resources back to the north, maybe allowing ANZAC to sneak into the DEI.

Yeah, I know what you’re getting at, and I’m thinking the same thing, but from the other end of the “what to buy” spectrum. I was thinking of trying to secure airbases on islands that transports could skip to, one from the other. The Allies will need troops, transports, lots of air and DDs in there too, as well as subs.

So yeah, I’m on the same page with you there brotha!

The real test is to try it out though, like we did with Van Trump’s strategy, maybe this one will work though!   :lol:

[gamerman01]

I agree with Van_Trump about banning a J1 attack.

So far I have always been J, and I always attack J1.  I even take out the pathetic ANZAC DD and transport.  So much for ANZAC ever getting an NO of any kind.  40 more IPC’s for the US is not enough of a deterrent.  I would never want to allow the Allies to maneuver their forces around unmolested.  How can 40 IPC’s substitute for taking the Phillipines (ruining USA NO and worth 2), taking Hong Kong (ruining UK’s NO and worth 3), annihilating Singapore BB and TWO transports, and taking out the ANZAC <snicker>fleet <snicker snicker=“”>?  It’s not even close - I will always always always attack J1 unless it was not allowed.  And then I’d still want to do it.  What were they thinking with these rules?

Other than my first time playing, where I was 1 DD block from winning the game against a great player (I have to say he’s great because he knows who he is and he’s reading this, but seriously, he’s good) I think it’s easy for Japan to win every time, just like Hitler is ranting in the youtube videos.  Japan can make a lot of mistakes and win.  Japan can get lazy and win.  Japan can take India fast or slow, it does not matter.  It’s still a fun game to play, but it does seem to need the other half.  Man, that game will take forever to play…  :lol:</snicker></snicker>

[Buckeyeboy]

The reason I threw this post out there was to see if anyone had tried it or would have the chance to play test it before I could. What I was looking for was to see if anyone had a solid US strategy.

Japan can pretty much do anything it pleases and win. J1 attack may speed up the process, but the inevitable results will be the same with a competent J player.

Sending the J fleet to Midway allows the US to build a CV T1 and land the planes from HI on it, and then turtle up on the west coast. They may temporarily cede HI to J, but once they catch the turn 2 paycheck, it will be a cold day for J to take on the US in her own front yard. Not to mention the fact that if the J fleet is in north pacific, UK buys a CV T1, a Trns T2  and then runs a muck in the DEI with the ANZACers. How do I know this? It’s what I did to Kaufschtick when he tried it on me f2f last week. It is two of the few allied wins we’ve seen. We tried it twice.

[Van_Trump]

@Buckeyeboy:

The reason I threw this post out there was to see if anyone had tried it or would have the chance to play test it before I could. What I was looking for was to see if anyone had a solid US strategy.

Japan can pretty much do anything it pleases and win. J1 attack may speed up the process, but the inevitable results will be the same with a competent J player.

Sending the J fleet to Wake allows the US to build a CV T1 and land the planes from HI on it, and then turtle up on the west coast. They may temporarily seed HI to J, but once they catch the turn 2 paycheck, it will be a cold day for J to take on the US in her own front yard. Not to mention the fact that if the J fleet is in north pacific, UK buys a CV T1, a Trns T2  and then runs a muck in the DEI with the ANZACers. How do I know this? It’s what I did to Kaufschtick when he tried it on me f2f last week. It is two of the few allied wins we’ve seen. We tried it twice.

I’m curious. When you allowed J to take Hawaii, how many fighters did Japan move there the following turn? Was it late enought in the game that the US was able to counter right away? With the scrambling rules, very tough to take it back if Japan has like 12 planes on HI. Also, after taking Hawaii, did Japan go after Sydney or Calcutta?

Oh, and I station Japanese fleet on Midway, rather than Wake. With a Naval base it is within striking distance of Western US. Best counter is to turn turtle, build SS’s, a few DD’s, bombers and stack fighters on HI until the counter attack is ready.
Problem is, by the time the counter is ready UK and China are no more.

[kaufschtick]

@Van_Trump:

I’m curious. When you allowed J to take Hawaii, how many fighters did Japan move there the following turn? Was it late enought in the game that the US was able to counter right away? With the scrambling rules, very tough to take it back if Japan has like 12 planes on HI. Also, after taking Hawaii, did Japan go after Sydney or Calcutta?

Oh, and I station Japanese fleet on Midway, rather than Wake. With a Naval base it is within striking distance of Western US. Best counter is to turn turtle, build SS’s, a few DD’s, bombers and stack fighters on HI until the counter attack is ready.
Problem is, by the time the counter is ready UK and China are no more.

Japan wasn’t “allowed” to take Hawaii, and the naval base was on Midway.

@Buckeyeboy:

The reason I threw this post out there was to see if anyone had tried it [Allied sub heavy strategy] or would have the chance to play test it before I could. What I was looking for was to see if anyone had a solid US strategy.

BB & I are both looking for the same thing here on these boards, Allied strategy and moves, not “how I’d beat that with this Japanese move/buy” replies.

[The Admirable Admiral]

Hey I’m new here to the forum. I just felt like sharing a US strategy that worked for me at my last game of Pac 40. Me and my group have been playing for a few years now but we have only played 2 games of pac 40. The game ended with a turn 4 capture of Japan by the US and this is what I did.

On the first turn buy one carrier and save a dollar, placing a fighter and tac bomber on it. Then move the whole fleet to Hawaii as well as the bomber from the Phillipines, if still alive. Also move one inf from Hawaii to WUS (may take 2 turns if trans sunk J1), the goal is to get 6 inf in WUS while spending as little money as possible. On the second turn buy 5 transports, 4 art, and 1-2 inf depending on if Japan took Phillipines J1, this should give you 6 trans total. Then on turn 3 buy 4 bombers. Move the fleet at Hawaii and the transports loaded with 6 inf 5art and 1 tank at WUS to sea zone 7 if possible assuming Japan doesn’t destroyer block. By turn 4 you can hit the sea of Japan with 2 CV, 1sub, 1des, 1CA, 3fig, 3tac, 1BB, 6-7 bombers. The aircraft on the carriers can land in Hawaii and the aircraft on Hawaii can land on the carriers. The bombers can land on Midway. You can hit the seazone 6 with nearly 60 attack points guaranteeing you 10 hits in 1st round of combat, assuming reasonable dice. Even if Japan scrambled fighters they’d need 15 to match the US. Japan would need its whole fleet and a little more air support to successfully defend the seazone. By turn 4 the US can have a sizable land force hit either Korea or Japan itself depending on what the Japanese defended. The only problems I see is India falling before that, or Jap destroyer blocking slowing the US down. I think this is a good way for the US to take the fight to Japan. Let me know what you guys think if you think this is a feasible strategy.

[Veqryn]

i have been planning on trying a strategy of spending 1/3 of my income on bombers and 2/3 on subs
so, 57 income results in
5 subs and 2 bombers a turn, with an extra 3 ipcs that you can use to buy a tranny every 3rd turn with an infantry

not sure if this will work, but hell, there have got to be a ton of good strategies we haven’t thought up yet

[Bigtiti]

suicide transports, they can take islands such as iwo jima so you can put airbase on it if J doesn’t retake
then your navy, with little AC’s and a lot of destroyers
then perhaps some subs, not to much, to disrupt convoys

[Panzer4life]

Ok, so apparently the Allies can’t back off the Japanese? Here is something that worked in the other axis and allies games that i played.
1: First build a destroyer and aircraft carrier for the US, putting two fighters on the carrier. Then get any remaining naval units to rendezvous with the carrier fleet. This will be fleet one. Britain should put an IPC factory somewhere in Australia (out of the line of fire). If it has one, then build a battleship and destroyer. Again cart remaining naval forces together. This forms fleet two.
2: If Japan goes for the islands, hit their transports with fighters and bombers. If they go for carriers or Battleships/cruisers, hit them with subs. Next turn, Britain should fortify Australia for a immediate naval landing by Japan. America should invest in more carriers, fighters, and destroyers. After a fleet is built, send it outside Japanese attacks.
3:Japan should be about to take the rest of the Pacific fighters. Have all the side make transports with a infantry and tank each, or a infantry and artillery.
4: Have the fleets attack the closest islands with the transports and battle fleets. Japan should be kicked off their recently captured island. If they have stacked their naval in one sea zone, work around it until you have numerical advantage. America should work its way to Iwo Jima or Okinawa and then build bombers. Get those bombers within range of Japan.
5: With the bombers, pummel Japan so it can’t build any more ships. America should focus on bombers while Britain should focus on destroyers and cruisers to counter the Japanese heavy sub doctrine. Once the Japanese navy is pretty much FUBAR, then go taking the islands back, along with liberating the Asian mainland.
6: Once Japan is stuck on its island, go in for the kill. It will take a couple of attempts, but once you get their forces below 50%, then it becomes easier for you to win.

[TitusAndronicus]

I build oodles of Aircraft Carriers as the Americans.  Just throwing them into the Japanese Navies whenever they can and replacing the losses works pretty well, sooner than later the naval balance will shift decidedly for the allies.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@Panzer4life:

Ok, so apparently the Allies can’t back off the Japanese? Here is something that worked in the other axis and allies games that i played.
1: First build a destroyer and aircraft carrier for the US, putting two fighters on the carrier. Then get any remaining naval units to rendezvous with the carrier fleet. This will be fleet one. Britain should put an IPC factory somewhere in Australia (out of the line of fire). If it has one, then build a battleship and destroyer. Again cart remaining naval forces together. This forms fleet two.
2: If Japan goes for the islands, hit their transports with fighters and bombers. If they go for carriers or Battleships/cruisers, hit them with subs. Next turn, Britain should fortify Australia for a immediate naval landing by Japan. America should invest in more carriers, fighters, and destroyers. After a fleet is built, send it outside Japanese attacks.
3:Japan should be about to take the rest of the Pacific fighters. Have all the side make transports with a infantry and tank each, or a infantry and artillery.
4: Have the fleets attack the closest islands with the transports and battle fleets. Japan should be kicked off their recently captured island. If they have stacked their naval in one sea zone, work around it until you have numerical advantage. America should work its way to Iwo Jima or Okinawa and then build bombers. Get those bombers within range of Japan.
5: With the bombers, pummel Japan so it can’t build any more ships. America should focus on bombers while Britain should focus on destroyers and cruisers to counter the Japanese heavy sub doctrine. Once the Japanese navy is pretty much FUBAR, then go taking the islands back, along with liberating the Asian mainland.
6: Once Japan is stuck on its island, go in for the kill. It will take a couple of attempts, but once you get their forces below 50%, then it becomes easier for you to win.

In pacific 1940, ANZAC can’t build a BB and DD. Britian itself is reducd to India and BC in a few turns.

[Panzer4life]

I am having AAP40 coming via California via Ebay. So I don’t know what is on the map. I am just saying, that strategy worked on the 50th university edition. So let me get the game, play it a couple of times, and i will come up with a way the Allies beat Japan.

[Autarch]

Admiral, the problem with the US attack strategies on Japan is the Japanese player sees it developing several turns out. By the time you get a fleet together and into home waters India has already fallen and Japan is already moving toward or attacking Australia.

Panzer, you make several assumptions that may be true for Anniversary but aren’t for Pacific 40, namely IC building and strategic bombing. Strategies that worked in other versions simply don’t have the time to develop in Pacific 40 because of the different set of victory conditions for those games. The J1 attack is vicious and robs the allies of assets they need to slow Japan which puts Japan on the fast track to victory. By the time the US has enough forces in position to contest Japan it’s already over. You’ll see when you get your copy and get a dozen games or so under your belt.

[Panzer4life]

What is making the J1 attack so good? Do they have a OP fleet? or do they have the invincible air fleet? I think that it is possible for the Us and the Allies to win the pacific if both players a new to the board and its layout. When I got the revised edition of AA, my brother would always win as the axis. We switched roles and he would still win. But when i got the anniversity edition, I was able to have the Soviet union hold the German lines while the UK and America bang up the Western German front.

[The Admirable Admiral]

the main advantage of the J1 attack is that you can destroy 3 allied transports at the start of the game freezing all allied attempts to capture east indies or reinforcing anywhere else.

Admiral, the problem with the US attack strategies on Japan is the Japanese player sees it developing several turns out. By the time you get a fleet together and into home waters India has already fallen and Japan is already moving toward or attacking Australia.

I think a good british player can hold India for at least turn 4 which is all the time US needs for a large scale invasion of Japan/korea.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@The:

Hey I’m new here to the forum. I just felt like sharing a US strategy that worked for me at my last game of Pac 40. Me and my group have been playing for a few years now but we have only played 2 games of pac 40. The game ended with a turn 4 capture of Japan by the US and this is what I did.

On the first turn buy one carrier and save a dollar, placing a fighter and tac bomber on it. Then move the whole fleet to Hawaii as well as the bomber from the Phillipines, if still alive. Also move one inf from Hawaii to WUS (may take 2 turns if trans sunk J1), the goal is to get 6 inf in WUS while spending as little money as possible. On the second turn buy 5 transports, 4 art, and 1-2 inf depending on if Japan took Phillipines J1, this should give you 6 trans total. Then on turn 3 buy 4 bombers. Move the fleet at Hawaii and the transports loaded with 6 inf 5art and 1 tank at WUS to sea zone 7 if possible assuming Japan doesn’t destroyer block. By turn 4 you can hit the sea of Japan with 2 CV, 1sub, 1des, 1CA, 3fig, 3tac, 1BB, 6-7 bombers. The aircraft on the carriers can land in Hawaii and the aircraft on Hawaii can land on the carriers. The bombers can land on Midway. You can hit the seazone 6 with nearly 60 attack points guaranteeing you 10 hits in 1st round of combat, assuming reasonable dice. Even if Japan scrambled fighters they’d need 15 to match the US. Japan would need its whole fleet and a little more air support to successfully defend the seazone. By turn 4 the US can have a sizable land force hit either Korea or Japan itself depending on what the Japanese defended. The only problems I see is India falling before that, or Jap destroyer blocking slowing the US down. I think this is a good way for the US to take the fight to Japan. Let me know what you guys think if you think this is a feasible strategy.

Can’t japan hit the fleet in hawaii with its navy?

[calvinhobbesliker]

@The:

Hey I’m new here to the forum. I just felt like sharing a US strategy that worked for me at my last game of Pac 40. Me and my group have been playing for a few years now but we have only played 2 games of pac 40. The game ended with a turn 4 capture of Japan by the US and this is what I did.

On the first turn buy one carrier and save a dollar, placing a fighter and tac bomber on it. Then move the whole fleet to Hawaii as well as the bomber from the Phillipines, if still alive. Also move one inf from Hawaii to WUS (may take 2 turns if trans sunk J1), the goal is to get 6 inf in WUS while spending as little money as possible. On the second turn buy 5 transports, 4 art, and 1-2 inf depending on if Japan took Phillipines J1, this should give you 6 trans total. Then on turn 3 buy 4 bombers. Move the fleet at Hawaii and the transports loaded with 6 inf 5art and 1 tank at WUS to sea zone 7 if possible assuming Japan doesn’t destroyer block. By turn 4 you can hit the sea of Japan with 2 CV, 1sub, 1des, 1CA, 3fig, 3tac, 1BB, 6-7 bombers. The aircraft on the carriers can land in Hawaii and the aircraft on Hawaii can land on the carriers. The bombers can land on Midway. You can hit the seazone 6 with nearly 60 attack points guaranteeing you 10 hits in 1st round of combat, assuming reasonable dice. Even if Japan scrambled fighters they’d need 15 to match the US. Japan would need its whole fleet and a little more air support to successfully defend the seazone. By turn 4 the US can have a sizable land force hit either Korea or Japan itself depending on what the Japanese defended. The only problems I see is India falling before that, or Jap destroyer blocking slowing the US down. I think this is a good way for the US to take the fight to Japan. Let me know what you guys think if you think this is a feasible strategy.

Also, how can 4 bmrs go from WUS to SZ6 in 1 turn?

[The Admirable Admiral]

Also, how can 4 bmrs go from WUS to SZ6 in 1 turn?

W/ airbase bombers take 4 moves to seazone 6 from America then two moves back to wake for a total of 6 moves.

And yes the Japanese fleet can hit hawaii but that’s assuming they kept the fleet at Japan, which is unlikely and if they did since fighters can scramble from hawaii they would take huge losses and they could be counterattacked from bombers on the mainland.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@The:

Also, how can 4 bmrs go from WUS to SZ6 in 1 turn?

W/ airbase bombers take 4 moves to seazone 6 from America then two moves back to wake for a total of 6 moves.

And yes the Japanese fleet can hit hawaii but that’s assuming they kept the fleet at Japan, which is unlikely and if they did since fighters can scramble from hawaii they would take huge losses and they could be counterattacked from bombers on the mainland.

How is it only 4 moves from WUS to SZ6? Which territories/sea zones do you pass through?