If USA declares war in turn 3’s income phase, the bonus is +25. +20 is if they don’t hold the Philippines.
France's role in Global 1940 SE
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@AndrewAAGamer I have seen 3 games were France is still alive and well. All three failures were because Germany tried to do so much in Round one. France has a impact on early game later game not at all. After round 6 or so France probably only has 2 guys stuck in London, 2 guys stuck in Egypt. And a Fighter doing it’s one thing some where. Maybe a destroyer somewhere to. Not much. If France is liberated it is either to late in the game or to risky. If the French ships by southern France survive it’s not good for the Axis. If the destroyer and Cruiser survive they can try to from a clean up sub crew in the Atlantic. I’ve seen this happen in 2 games. I have seen one game were France took Libya for one round, another time they re-took Southern France. This mainly happen because the Axis made some mistakes.
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@AndrewAAGamer Also, it depends how much survives say France is lucky and has only lost a Cruiser In the London sea battle. Kept it’s other boats in the med. and fighter in London and all guy sin Arica and London. Also, if Normandy or Southern France survives, I would disagree. If Frances pieces were removed after round 1, and if the French get lucky, the Allies lose 8 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 2 Destroyers, 1 Fighter, and 1 Cruiser. The Allies lose 66 IPC’S. Lets say the worst happens. The allies lose 4 Infantry, and 1 Destroyer. Again the worst. The allies lose 20 IPC’S But lets say the most common outcome. 7 Infantry, 1 Destroyer, and 1 Fighter. 39 IPC’S. That’s a lot.
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@FranceNeedsMorePower said in France's role in Global 1940 SE:
@AndrewAAGamer I have seen 3 games were France is still alive and well. All three failures were because Germany tried to do so much in Round one… …This mainly happen because the Axis made some mistakes.
Just because the Axis plays poorly does not change whether France has a role or not. All of my discussion points assume players of good caliber following a sound strategy and using proper tactics. Anything is possible with poor play and is therefore irrelevant to any discussion.
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I have never personally seen a game where France grew into a monster like China. I just didn’t want to sound like that France never, in a bizarre stroke of luck become a monster when it mattered out of the tens of thousands of Global and Europe 1940 games played around the world in history.
The only possiblity I can think of is the Big 3 Allied powers specifically making moves so that France will cheaply capture most of Germany and Italy. In some games I ran with the TripleA AIs, the French took 1 or 2 territories because Germany was already incredibly weak after Paris was liberated.
In both scenarios France would become a monster far, far too late in the game to matter (as opposed to China or ANZAC, where them expanding by a lot could potentially be game decisive).
As the Dutch territories don’t have an original owner similar to the neutrals, if ANZAC captures several of them, they can be churning out quite a lot of air and naval units. With their national objectives I’ve seen them reach 30-35 IPCs a turn before (I can’t link specific games, but this has happened only a few times, perhaps 1 out of 10 Global or Pacific 1940 games I’ve played, including ones with small house rule changes like Balanced Mod).
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I find it amazing that there has been this much discussion on France “having a role” in this game. So much so that I logged in and made a post for the first time in roughly 365 days. I love it and think it is hilarious!
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@LincolnHawk I’m glad you enjoyed it! What is your personal opinion?
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@FranceNeedsMorePower I have never seen an Axis & Allies 1940 Global France Strategy youtube video. Every other playable power/country in the game has one, even China. Maybe you should make one? Topics could be: 1. What to do with that French Fighter? (much like the Flying Tigers for China), 2. The mighty French Navy and how best to utilize it, and 3. “Consolidation of Defensive Strength - Determine the area of battle” in regard to North African French forces (this ties in to element #7 of AndrewAAGamer’s Warfare Principles.
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@LincolnHawk @SuperbattleshipYamato @AndrewAAGamer In conclusion, whether or not France has a role they do have a a part in the game. The French pieces should not be waiting to die but do as much as they can.
Somethings France can do are:
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Use their Fighter to boast up defenses or fly it to Africa with the three guys and skirmish with the Italians.
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Stack up in Egypt, London, Algeria/Morocco/Tunisia.
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If the Med. French fleet survives, EVACUTAE them to the west coast of Morocco. After, you can sail them across the Atlantic taking out some subs.
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They can be small can openers againsent Italy unless the Germans come to help out in Africa. They can also be blockers, then the British don’t have to waste guys.
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Sail the Destroyer in Madagascar East or North to help Allied fleets.
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In the case of liberation, the French (if they have all 19 IPC’S) Pump out 3 guys a artillery and a tank each turn. This is a good army against the Germans
************** I WILL MAKE A YOUTUBE VIDEO! *************************************
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@LincolnHawk Expect a video on France by 11/19/2024 . I’m busy so it will take me a bit. I want to make sure the video is detailed. Hopefully 10 mins long.
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@FranceNeedsMorePower That sounds great. I love watching Axis & Allies content, it really relaxes me to be honest. General Hand Grenade has some great videos out that I consider to be “classics”. Floating Bridge, Middle Earth, ANZAC, China, etc. Good luck on your video and let us know when it is published, I am sure you will get a decent number of views.
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@LincolnHawk Go check out my new post. Made the video. Spread the video to people you know.
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@LincolnHawk @SuperbattleshipYamato @AndrewAAGamer Go check out my new video about France on my new post!
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@LincolnHawk @AndrewAAGamer @SuperbattleshipYamato I forgot to send a link. opps. https://youtu.be/I0nxyB3JwAk
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@FranceNeedsMorePower Great job on the video, I watched the whole thing. One rule I realized I have been playing wrong for years is in Europe when Germany/Italy takes over Normandy/Southern France. I didn’t know that if USA or UK liberated Normandy or Southern France that they would collect those IPCs until France itself is liberated. We have our yearly game coming up at end of the month and we will make this adjustment. Again, nicely done on the video.
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@LincolnHawk Thank you! I have made that mistake in the past. It is also nice to have those minor Industrial complexes to if you get to produce anything.
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I agree, I’ve made that mistake too. I’ll write my comments on the video in the post you made for it.
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I played a game as the Allies against the Hard AI with out of box rules and removed everything from France before the first turn, including all facilities in their territories (losing the facilities probably hurt the Axis more than the Allies). The British troops in Paris stayed, however.
I won as the Allies.
Granted, the AI’s play as Japan was a disaster (it’s generally a tough country to play and other AIs have performed even worse), but I made my fair share of mistakes out of carelessness and rushing, and their play as Germany and Italy was mostly solid.
The lack of French troops allowed Germany to declare war on the Soviets G1 and advance quite quickly. The Soviets were definitely in danger of collapsing the first 10 turns were it not for massive amounts of support from the British. Still, the Allies barely weathered the storm and were able to slowly push the European Axis back, with the US making frequent-large scale landings on the Western Front, eventually capturing Rome (the Axis navies and air forces in Europe were negligible). The UK did not participate in many landings, focusing their efforts on a successful strategic bombing campaign and continuing to funnel troops onto the Eastern Front from industrial complexes in Egypt and the Union of South Africa, where they ended up doing 30-40% of the fighting there.
Thanks to the aforementioned poor Japanese play, UK Pacific and China steadily dismantled the Japanese presence in Asia, while the Allies achieved dominance in the Pacific within the first 10 turns.
Overall, while the Allies were able to win without France, the loss of all those units hurt the Allies more than expected. In a competent player’s hands I think the Germans had a better than even shot of capturing Moscow early on.
Full game:
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@SuperbattleshipYamato Very interesting. I will have to test it out to.
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Stupid question of the day:
In the TripleA version, after France loses their capitol, any French territories liberated from the Axis by the other allies become controlled by that ally (i,e. not liberated to French ownership.) FWIW, I’ve seen this happen with the USSR territories if Moscow falls, too.
Is this intended, in the out-of-box rules? or is this just a TripleA-ism?
I mention it here because my strategy as France involves trying to balance out, “How can I maintain as many of my infantry as possible/inflict the most casualties/take the fewest losses?” with “Actually, just let the Italians have the territory, so the Americans can get the IPCs for it later.”
Like, if I know the Italian transports are in a position to just dogpile me if I push all my infantry east, I’ll pull them west instead, for sure. If the transports are too far away, I’ll try and move up – but I don’t actually want to move too far east…?
And this mechanic actually dovetails into the fact that it seems better for the US to try and hold the factories in coastal France (to place units immediately on the front line) than it is to give all that land back to France – or possibly just bypass France altogether and try to land in Greece (a favourite of mine, for example). You could argue that this simulates the “Battle of the Bulge” (or something… I guess…) but it does just seem to reinforce the fact that having France as an active ally isn’t really a value add, and is actually a detriment in the later game.
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yea triplea does it correctly
A reason why a lot of people don’t liberate France in the OOB version :)
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